transport of loaded stripper clips & empty gun

[Guest jimdigriz]

If I don't have an HCP, is it legal to transport loaded stripper clips along with my empty Mosin? That is, are stripper clips treated differently in the law than magazines?

[Guest Muttling]

I doesn't matter if its loose, in a speed loader, in a magazine, or in a clip. The ammunition must be kept seperate from the weapon or you're carrying with the intent to go armed. Put the weapon in the passanger compartment and the ammo in the trunk, or vice versa.

[Fallguy]

What he said

[Guest jimdigriz]

I doesn't matter if its loose, in a speed loader, in a magazine, or in a clip. The ammunition must be kept seperate from the weapon or you're carrying with the intent to go armed. Put the weapon in the passanger compartment and the ammo in the trunk, or vice versa.

There is no trunk - it's a minivan. What then?

My understanding was that you couldn't even keep a loaded mag in the car with the gun; that, if you had ammo, it could not be in a magazine, and had to be separated. But I read on another forum that stripper clips were treated differently from magazines in TN, in that it was OK to load the stripper clip (while still keeping it separate from the gun).

[Oh Shoot]

There is no trunk - it's a minivan. What then?

My understanding was that you couldn't even keep a loaded mag in the car with the gun; that, if you had ammo, it could not be in a magazine, and had to be separated. But I read on another forum that stripper clips were treated differently from magazines in TN, in that it was OK to load the stripper clip (while still keeping it separate from the gun).

Defense to unlawful possession.

"... an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon"

Separate gun and ammo as far as possible.

To be sure, put either gun or ammo in locked case. That has pretty much been shown to be an ironclad indication that you are not "going armed" and you would REALLY have had to piss off a LEO bigtime to get charged under those circumstances.

- OS

[TMMT]

The fact this is even needed discussion appalls me, this is Tennessee, this is the south... or so I thought.

More and more its clear to me that Tennessee is not a "gun friendly" state, its a "gun tolerant" state at best.

A gun in a car, even a loaded gun in a car is pretty much normal in most all southern states no permit needed.

Makes me wonder if we are in Illinois or some such place.

Edited November 24, 2009 by TMMT

[DaveTN]

There is no trunk - it's a minivan. What then?

My understanding was that you couldn't even keep a loaded mag in the car with the gun; that, if you had ammo, it could not be in a magazine, and had to be separated. But I read on another forum that stripper clips were treated differently from magazines in TN, in that it was OK to load the stripper clip (while still keeping it separate from the gun).

Don’t do it, the risk is too high.

It doesn’t matter if it’s a stripper clip or a magazine; the written law only addresses ammunition. I don’t know if there is any case law.

If the cop thinks it’s accessible; you can be arrested.

Just get your HCP and you can carry a loaded rifle; you just can’t have a round chambered.

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;

[mdmoseley]

I'll be honest I would be hard pressed to make case with stripper clips because ammo is sold in stripper clips. That would mean someone would have to take all their ammo out of the original boxes and take them off stripper clips just to transport them. That's alot different than loading them into a magazine.

[TMMT]

I'll be honest I would be hard pressed to make case with stripper clips because ammo is sold in stripper clips. That would mean someone would have to take all their ammo out of the original boxes and take them off stripper clips just to transport them. That's alot different than loading them into a magazine.

A better idea would be for our idiotic elected officials to amend the law allowing loaded weapons, handguns, rifles, shotguns, potato guns... in vehicles without the need for papers, licenses, psych evals, first born children, permission from God... like most other states do...

[Guest Muttling]

I'll be honest I would be hard pressed to make case with stripper clips because ammo is sold in stripper clips. That would mean someone would have to take all their ammo out of the original boxes and take them off stripper clips just to transport them. That's alot different than loading them into a magazine.

.38's in a box sitting on the seat beside a revolver in a case is considered carrying with the intent to go armed. The law does not differentiate between stripper clips and magazines....or anything else for that matter.

Magazine, stripper clip, loose, in a box, in a speed loader, etc.....It doesn't matter. The law requires the ammo to be carried seperately and locked from the weapon unless you hold an HCP.

One clarification....I am not defending the law as right here. It is what it is and we often defend our 2A rights by saying "We are law abiding citizens." If you don't believe the law is right, then work to get it changed while finding ways to defend yourself AND comply with the law.

Edited December 1, 2009 by Muttling

[Oh Shoot]

...The law requires the ammo to be carried seperately and locked from the weapon unless you hold an HCP....

Clarification: While it's IMO a good idea to remove any chance of an illegal possession charge, TN law does not require that either the gun or the ammo be locked away in any manner whatsoever.

- OS

[Guest Muttling]

OhShoot,

I want to be as respectful as I think very highly of your knowledge of the laws and consider you to be a friend who often brings good facts into these discussions.

Without seeking a conflict and only seeking to learn.....

I have heard many statements made about vehicle carry (both in conversation and in training), but rarely have I seen direct references to the law. In my Googling, I really haven't been able to come up with much with respect to the actual law.

Can you give me some links concerning laws or rulings on this topic to digest.

Thanks,

Mutt

Edited December 1, 2009 by Muttling

[Oh Shoot]

OhShoot,

I want to be as respectful as I think very highly of your knowledge of the laws and consider you to be a friend who often brings good facts into these discussions.

Without seeking a conflict and only seeking to learn.....

I have heard many statements made about vehicle carry (both in conversation and in training), but rarely have I seen direct references to the law. In my Googling, I really haven't been able to come up with much with respect to the actual law.

Can you give me some links concerning laws or rulings on this topic to digest.

Thanks,

Mutt

I only can cite the law itself:

------------

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;

-----------

To my knowledge, there are only three other mentions in the weapons statutes regarding guns in cars besides this one.

- non-student adult can posses gun (unloaded) in car on school property

- HCP holder being able to have (including loaded) gun in car while dropping off/picking up

- HCP holder may have loaded long gun in car

If there is any mention in statutes of having guns or ammo locked up in vehicle, please someone point it out and I'll (not unheard of) eat some (more) crow.

- OS

[Guest Muttling]

Boy...."immediate vicinity of the person or weapon". Talk about language that is wide open to interpertation and ugly from a legal perspective. By this language, you could have the weapon AND the ammo in seperate lock boxes sitting beside each other but still be in violation.

[Oh Shoot]

Boy...."immediate vicinity of the person or weapon". Talk about language that is wide open to interpertation and ugly from a legal perspective. By this language, you could have the weapon AND the ammo in seperate lock boxes sitting beside each other but still be in violation.

Anything's possible.

Obviously, locking and separating should logically show your good intent, but as you say, much weapon law is totally up to the local LEO and judge.

- OS

[TMMT]

Boy...."immediate vicinity of the person or weapon". Talk about language that is wide open to interpertation and ugly from a legal perspective. By this language, you could have the weapon AND the ammo in seperate lock boxes sitting beside each other but still be in violation.

All the more reason TN should strike this part and allow loaded weapons in vehicles without the need for a permit, laws like this are expected in places like California or Illinois but here in Tennessee... Unbelievable!

[mdmoseley]

.38's in a box sitting on the seat beside a revolver in a case is considered carrying with the intent to go armed. The law does not differentiate between stripper clips and magazines....or anything else for that matter.

Magazine, stripper clip, loose, in a box, in a speed loader, etc.....It doesn't matter. The law requires the ammo to be carried seperately and locked from the weapon unless you hold an HCP.

One clarification....I am not defending the law as right here. It is what it is and we often defend our 2A rights by saying "We are law abiding citizens." If you don't believe the law is right, then work to get it changed while finding ways to defend yourself AND comply with the law.

Well that wasn't my point. You are correct but the original question was could he transport still in the stripper clips (assuming the ammo and gun are seperate). If stored seperately and in the original packaging I don't see a problem because that is the way it is sold. Look at FAA regulations for a minute. They require it to be in the orginal box (in this case in stripper clips) to transport in checked baggage but you can't transport in a magazine. I know that's the FAA but IMO the same line of thinking would be taken with this. Because it's being transported in the original method you should be fine.

Edited December 1, 2009 by mdmoseley
correction

[Oh Shoot]

Stripper clips, magazines, original retail box, loose rounds = it doesn't matter, TN law says nothing about them.

It's all simply "ammunition".

- OS

[Fallguy]

Stripper clips, magazines, original retail box, loose rounds = it doesn't matter, TN law says nothing about them.

It's all simply "ammunition".

- OS

+1

Also agree that nothing in the law requires the weapon or ammo to be locked in a container, just seperate from each other.

[jughead]

i thought that the long gun had to have an empty chamber even if one had a permit

[Oh Shoot]

i thought that the long gun had to have an empty chamber even if one had a permit

That is correct.

What's your point?

- OS

[jughead]

That is correct.

What's your point?

- OS

read your post again. u said loaded long gun

[Guest jimdigriz]

To my knowledge, there are only three other mentions in the weapons statutes regarding guns in cars besides this one.

- non-student adult can posses gun (unloaded) in car on school property

- HCP holder being able to have (including loaded) gun in car while dropping off/picking up

- HCP holder may have loaded long gun in car

OK, the HCP holder can have a loaded long gun in the car. Is it limited to one only? How many loaded mags can I have? Ideally, I'd like to be able to save time at the range by pre-loading my mags for each gun at home.

[DaveTN]

OK, the HCP holder can have a loaded long gun in the car. Is it limited to one only? How many loaded mags can I have? Ideally, I'd like to be able to save time at the range by pre-loading my mags for each gun at home.

If you have an HCP you can have all the magazines and ammunition you like. You can have a loaded magazine in the gun. The only limitation is that you can’t have a round in the chamber. (For obvious safety reasons.)

[Oh Shoot]

OK, the HCP holder can have a loaded long gun in the car. Is it limited to one only? How many loaded mags can I have? Ideally, I'd like to be able to save time at the range by pre-loading my mags for each gun at home.

No limit is specified in the law, guns or mags.

- OS