Knoxville Gun Show

[J Smith]

They check to be sure no loaded guns are brought in.

You can not carry a loaded firearm in.Its all about safety,if they allowed people to carry their EDC weapons in without being checked it would be very easy for some idiot to draw his EDC to show someone and that person shoot somebody thinking the gun is unloaded.I have carried mine in without getting it checked but never took it out and was never seen by anyone.

For me I do not mind paying the cover fee to get into gun shows. I enjoy checking out all the gunny stuff in there and it is a great way to spend a few hours.

I don't look at the $10 as a waste or money I could spend on things bought from a store or gun shop. I get $10 worth of enjoyment being there. And it is the only place where I know I am with that many like minded people.

Now maybe someone could answer questions for me.

At the entrance, at least at the Expo Center there is a table for checking you gun(s).

What exactley are those cops checking for? Does this checking include my carry weapon? or is it just for those bringing in guns to sell or trade? Are they going to make me carry it unloaded? Do I carry it unloaded or just give it to them with one in the pipe?

[hso]

J Smith is right on target!

It is a safety measure to ensure some irresponsible individual doesn't put the rest of us at risk by playing with a loaded gun. That includes HCP holders as well.

[Guest dotsun]

Yep, we shouldn't be trusted at gun shows.

[bteague2]

At most held at fairground or something similar where you wouldn't be able to carry anyway?

[Guest dotsun]

I'm not entirely sure about the Jacobs building, but I'm pretty sure the Expo center on Clinton Highway is a privately owned building. In fact, I remember the sign at the door of the Jacobs building saying something to the effect of if you're found with a loaded weapon you'll be banned from the show. Nothing about the legality of it which I would expect to see if it was a law violation.

[wareagle]

It is a safety measure to ensure some irresponsible individual doesn't put the rest of us at risk by playing with a loaded gun. That includes HCP holders as well.

FYI, a couple of years ago, I was at a show in Smyrna where a guy shot the floor just after check in. Also, I remember a couple of children killed by idiots carrying in loaded firearms. Needless to say, I'd prefer for all firearms to be checked at the door. My 2cents,

[Marswolf]

I think it would be just as effective to have a sign saying all legal loaded handguns must remain in their holster under penalty of banning you from future shows.

Gun shows draw idiots, just like any other kind of show. I'd like to have a way to protect myself from them.

[Mike.357]

I'd like to have a way to protect myself from them.

+1

Seems rather hypocritical to ban loaded guns and carry permits at a GUNSHOW!

What is to stop someone from loading their gun once they are in the doors?

[Guest ETS_Inc]

Guys, there was an incident at the Goodman's show in Nashville this weekend that reflects why people are asked not to bring loaded guns into the building.

Before the show started, the promoter came over the PA and reminded everyone that no loaded guns were to be inside the building, and asked that everyone ensure their weapons were unloaded, and if they found someone with a loaded weapon, or attempting to load a weapon, they bring it to the attention of the promoter.

Well, one of the vendors, who is a retired Special Forces Warrant Officer, and owns a training company, had brought in a loaded .22 pistol. So, he goes to unload it. He points it at the ground, at his briefcase, actually, and begins to unload it. Unfortunately, he had a negligent discharge (notice I said negligent, not accidental - accidental is the wrong way to phrase this stuff, as accidental implies mechanical failure). The round went through his briefcase, ricocheted off the floor, and then the wall, before striking another vendor, a young lady, in the side. Luckily, the bullet only grazed her, and didn't break any skin. She was fine and didn't need to go to the hospital.

The vendor who had the ND was thrown out, and will probably never be allowed back. It just goes to show that that kind of stuff can happen to anybody. It's not just the mouth-breathing, knuckle-draggers who have ND's. Often times, it's the guys who are most familiar with guns who have them, as we can get complacent and think it'll never happen to us.

That's why there are no loaded guns allowed in the shows. Let me draw a scenario for you. A gentleman with a carry permit goes to the show, looking for a smaller carry gun, for the summer time. He handles dozens of guns, but can't find one that suits his needs. So, while talking to a vendor about his dilemna, he decides it'd be much easier to show why the gun is too big for him, and removes the gun from his holster. Now, he knows it's loaded, but his mind isn't on that, it's on the size of the grips, and he's focusing on that. He hands the vendor the gun, so he can compare the grips to another gun, side by side. The vendor, knowing the policy of the promoter, assumes the gun is unloaded. But, the vendor is distracted, and without thinking about it, puts his finger on the trigger. Then, the vendor's attention gets called away by someone asking a question. As he turns, he sweeps the muzzle over and his trigger finger tenses slightly. BANG! The gun goes off, the round hits the floor and ricochets into a child, holding Daddy's hand while he talks about turkey calls.

Think that scenario is too far-fetched? If so, you haven't been to enough gun shows.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

Also, think about this:

For the most part, I'd agree that people here on TNGO have demonstrated that they are vividly aware of the Four Rules and their importance. We'd all likely say "Well, I'm safe with a gun, and I know the four rules, and always follow them. Why should I not be allowed to carry my gun? In fact, I'm going to carry anyways, and don't care what the sign says."

Well, it's not just us who'd feel that way. It's the guys who aren't as cautious, or as cognizant. They, too, feel that they should have a right to protect themselves from idiots. Unfortunately, they probably don't realize that they're likely the idiots in question. So, they carry too.

Before long, you have an idiot with an ND, and having been on the wrong end of the equation, you end up in the hospital. Then, the promoters insurance won't pay up, because they weren't supposed to allow loaded guns inside in the first place. Then, when the hospital bills start racking up, you find out that the guy who shot you is broke, and has no means to pay your bills. So, left with no choice, you sue the promoter. You win the case, meaning your bills are taken care of for you. However, the promoter is broke, and has to shut down. The lawsuit scares other promoters, and they all stop doing shows. Then where are we?

[Guest Phantom6]

Also, think about this:

...Well, it's not just us who'd feel that way. It's the guys who aren't as cautious, or as cognizant. They, too, feel that they should have a right to protect themselves from idiots. Unfortunately, they probably don't realize that they're likely the idiots in question. So, they carry too...

Yup, it's kind of like driving a car. It's not so much my driving that I'm worried about. My driving record and my insurance co. say I'm a very safe driver and I've put more miles on vehicles in the last thirty eight years than even some truck drivers due to the nature of my work (and my dis-like for and avoidence of flying whenever I can). The few accidents that I've been involved in have been someone else's fault- well, except for that one back in 1973 when I ran a VW up the butt end of a Ford Pinto. That was a case of mechanical failure due to deteriorating brakes that I was waiting for pay-day (2 days later) to fix. It's the other guy I need to watch out for.

Unlike other places, there is security all over most gunshows. Besides, there are enough knives, machetes, tomahawks, blow guns and bayonets at most shows, if someone were to start shooting they would look like "cousin Bob" in the Amazon on the Capitol One commercial. If you don't feel comfortable going "naked" in a gun show, don't go.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

Besides, there are enough knives, machetes, tomahawks, blow guns and bayonets at most shows, if someone were to start shooting they would look like "cousin Bob" in the Amazon on the Capitol One commercial. If you don't feel comfortable going "naked" in a gun show, don't go.

You're forgetting all the other improvised weapons like Beanie Babies, old-as-sin jerky, and costume jewelry.

[Mike.357]

ETS , that beanie baby comment about made me spit pepsi out.

I see everyones point about guns at gun shows. I guess if my choice is to attend disarmed or to not attend one, I will choose to risk it all and go unarmed. I love gunshows. Sometimes to have a little fun you gotta live on the edge. And I do get a chuckle out of the people open carrying at them especially since I now know their guns are empty. I always thought of "cowboy" when seeing these types.

More seriously what prevents a yokel carrying a gun from reloading it once inside the gates?

I like Mars suggestion, sounds like common sense.

[Marswolf]

Good grief.....

This sounds like the anti-gunners argument that if you let normal people carry handguns, there will be blood running in the streets. But of course that doesn't really happen.

As far as the vendor with the ND, it sounds to me like it was caused by the promoter's insistence on not having loaded guns at the show. If nothing had been said, the incident wouldn't have happened.

I suspect it's largely a matter of liability. The promoter shows his intent to eliminate NDs, ADs, whatever from happening by inspecting the guns coming into his area of responsibility. I doubt it is necessary for safety reasons.

For what it's worth (not much), I go to very few gun shows. Normally prices are no better than I can get from a local shop and nothing is new that I don't know about. I'd also rather apply the entrance fee as part of a good meal. If I had to pay to go into Wal-Mart to buy stuff, I wouldn't go there either.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

Marswolf,

I humbly submit my counter to your point:

http://www.wmsa.net/news/AtlantaJournalConstitution/ajc-020715_teen_shot_gun_show.htm

If I remember correctly, the vendor had tried to show someone a holster, and while doing so, his weapon discharged. There are sometimes that it makes sense to ensure guns are unloaded. I doubt you'll find too many gun shops where they'd be happy with everybody coming in and pulling out their loaded carry guns, to check holster fit. Take that and multiply that a hundred fold, then you have a gunshow.

I've worked quite a number of shows. I can't tell you how many guns I've seen pointed at people, intentionally or otherwise. It is always uncomforting, even knowing that the policy is that they must be unloaded. You never know when some jackass will slip a round into the chamber of a gun, for whatever reason. The person pointing the gun at you might think it's empty (he has every reason to believe it should be, right), and when he pulls the trigger, it goes off. You comfortable increasing the odds in the favor of those guns being loaded?

You have to remember, safety rules are written with the least common denominator in mind, and with the goal of protecting everybody.

[Mike.357]

You have to remember, safety rules are written with the least common denominator in mind, and with the goal of protecting everybody

Frank you gotta admit that sounds like something McCarthy or Schuler would say.

Substitute gun for safety and I bet one of them did say it already.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

No, it doesn't, actually. I'm not saying we should over-legislate guns, or gun safety. I'm simply saying there is a reason there are rules for gun safety, and they are generally speaking, thought of because they NEED to be.

My next to last class found me teaching a boyfriend / girlfriend couple in their early 40's. They looked, and acted, like they came from the same gene pool. It took them more than 30 minutes to take the 30-question, open notes, T/F/multiple guess test. Most people are done in less than 10 minutes. When I walked back into the room to check on them, they were helping each other, and still had two questions left. I coached them through the last two questions, and it's a good thing I did. Had they been left to their own devices, they would have missed both questions. When I took them into the office to grade them, they still missed 8. You're only allowed to miss 9, and still pass. Had I not helped them, they would have failed for sure. Then we went to the range...

Let's see, he dropped his mag in front of the firing line, and then crossed his thumb behind the slide of his Glock 19, after numerous warnings not to do so. There were other, smaller instances where they both failed to do as instructed. Then, she pointed her loaded Bersa Thunder .380 at the guy in the lane to her left. That's when I hit the roof. I told her that if she ever pointed another loaded gun at one of my students, I'd toss her off my range, forever. Those two are going to kill someone one of these days, and it won't be a criminal; it's going to be someone at a firing range, a gun show, or each other.

Those are the types of people who cause us to need policies of no loaded guns in the gun show.

[Guest dotsun]

At least those 2 won't be getting their HCP.

[Marswolf]

Sounds just like McCarthy and Schuler to me. If everyone can't be trusted with a loaded gun then no one should be trusted.

Maybe I misread the post, but it sounded like Frank helped those cretins get their permit. What did I miss?

The gun shops I go to have customers pull loaded guns all the time. No woundings yet. Maybe things are different in mid-state.

[Guest ETS_Inc]

Yeah, they passed. I didn't like it, but they did. If I failed everyone who made a mistake, I'd have a failure rate of at least 20%. Unfortunately, there wasn't much I could do. Givng everyone the answers to the written test effectively negates the reason for giving a test, and they weren't the first person who needed coaching on it. As for the range, once they were corrected for their individual mistakes, they became more aware of what they were doing. I've had other students who needed to be told to smarten up, and who did exactly that.

Marswolf,

I'm sure Chief Lowery hadn't had a negligent discharge which wounded another person at a gunshow before Saturday morning, either. That didn't stop it from happening. The failure for something to have happened in the past doesn't preclude it from happening one day.

[Marswolf]

Frank, I'm mostly spittin' (or whatever) into the wind with this line of posts. We have had NDs over here at gun shows. No one hurt as far as I know. Show promoters are going to continue requiring ties on guns for liability reasons. But they are a bit silly for actual safety purposes. I've seen a bunch of them clipped at shows to try out a magazine or whatever. And some people, quite understandably (and I think properly), just don't show their concealed protection handgun. Only way the gun check thing could work is to have a metal detector or strip searches at the door and no ammunition at the shows.

I still think the problem could be taken care of by a threat of spaying or neutering if you pull out a loaded handgun at a show. And in case some guy like Cho shows up and starts blasting away, he will get in fewer shots before someone takes him out. Eventually that is going to happen. Then the promoter will get sued for not allowing carry.

I think the proper solution is Texas Governor Rick Perry's idea that concealed handguns should be allowed everywhere including churches, courthouses and bars - and gun shows....

[Mike.357]

Yeah, they passed. I didn't like it, but they did. If I failed everyone who made a mistake, I'd have a failure rate of at least 20%.

and they weren't the first person who needed coaching on it

I assume you mean more than one mistake as you say they missed eight answers and surely would have missed a ninth had you not "helped " them. Why would you do this? Doesn't this open you up to liability? Goodness, Stevie Wonder probably could pass the thing. The written part is easier than the shooting part.

concealed handguns should be allowed everywhere including churches, courthouses and bars - and gun shows

Another common sense solution.

[Marswolf]

Goodness, Stevie Wonder probably could pass the thing.

Very superstitious, writing's on the wall,

Very superstitious, ladders bout' to fall,

[Guest ETS_Inc]

The funny thing is, I've actually had a legally blind student pass the class. His daughter read the questions for him on the test, but he did the shooting part himself. He did great at 3 & 7 yards. At 15 yards, he hit about half the time, IIRC. he ended up with a score between 75-80%. He could see shadows / shapes at 15 yards, but couldn't make out distinctive features.

Mars,

Trust me, I'm well aware that people clip the ties, and keep their carry guns loaded. Heck, half the time, they just put the zip-tie through the triggerguard, like that does anything. The way I see it though, if the zip ties and threats of spaying /neutering keep one idiot from negligently putting another hole in my body while I'm working a show, then I can tolerate them. I would bet good money that the possibility of an ND is exponentially higher than the possibility of some moron trying to shoot up the place.

[Mike.357]

What would the penalty be for being caught carrying a loaded gun into a guns show. Either bypassing the guncheck station or from reloading once inside?