Advice on business lease? Any lawyers? Contractors?

[SavageSig]

I signed a long term lease on a property back in 2003. The lease is pretty standard, but the person handling it has changed. It was a pleasant old fellow who did everything by handshake, but now it's his daughter and she wants me out of there.

When I first moved in, the place had been a beauty shop. The tile was old, the carpet was cheap, the bathroom was old, etc. The layout was not suited to my needs, but the landlord said he didn't want to spend any money on the interior. He told me to do whatever I needed to make the space suit my needs. This meant knocking out a piece of drywall so I could install a large piece of equipment. He would often come by to chat, and he definitely looked at the modification and OK'd it. The new landlord is saying that I have to provide a statement from a contractor that it's structurally sound and that the wiring is safe. Is that true if it's been there for over 7 years?

They were quite sneaky. I asked them to come look at two leaks, but instead they took pictures of the entire place without my knowledge.

I have also utilized a space as a drive through since the beginning of the lease. Is there a way to grandfather this practice in, or if she says I have to stop, do I have to stop? When I told her I wouldn't stop, she put up 4 or 5 signs around the area, telling people not to use it. Can I take those signs down? Is this a breach of my quiet enjoyment? What exactly is quiet enjoyment? Does that include not being harassed and "inspected" by the landlord all the time (as she threatened in a letter)? They do have to give some sort of notice before coming in, right?

There is a maintenance clause in the lease that says I have to maintain the interior to "present condition" while they have to maintain the exterior. The new landlord is saying that if I don't make a ton of repairs, that they can terminate my lease within 10 days of notice. The problem is, a lot of the repairs they're talking about are issues that were there when I took the place. I don't feel I need to replace the tile when it hasn't changed one bit. The only possible complaint that I can concede is factual are three dents or holes in the drywall in the back and a large stain on the carpet where nobody even looks. Can she force me to repair those right now? I was under the impression that these could be fixed when the lease was up. What's the threshold? Will a judge back me up that those repairs are trivial and not worth breaking the lease over?

There are also two leaks which I've asked be addressed. Their response was that they couldn't find any evidence of a leak, and any water stains are normal and my problem. I know they didn't even look because they couldn't find the trap door to the attic. Can I demand they fix those before I fix anything? If they don't fix it, can I somehow compel them to or force them to buy our lease out?

Thanks for any help. And if anybody knows a great commercial lease lawyer, I would be so grateful. Or if you're a lawyer who'd want to look over my papers, see if I have a case, and then we can talk about hiring. The lease provides that the losing party pay for all lawyer fees in a dispute. Maybe a contractor too, if I do need to get my modification OK'd.

Edited November 19, 2009 by SavageSig

[Guest H0TSH0T]

1. I would get a written statement from the old land lord for the modifications, at the least make a record of dates and times along with any pictures to cyoa.

2. as far as the building being structurally sound that is the property leaser's responsibility,not the tenet , but you still can have it inspected by fire martial, or city inspector.

3. if you pulled a permit for the internal framing for the modification you would have had to have gotten a inspection, but since it was a lease more than likely the owner would have to pull the permit.

4. more than likely this didn't happen, due to owner wanting to dodge some city tax increase, that normally happens within 4 years of assessment.

5. I don't think they can terminate your lease unless you defaulted on part of your lease, or have agreed to accept terms that would indicate as such. but this statement "Their response was that they couldn't find any evidence of a leak, and any water stains are normal and my problem." would indicate that maintenance of the structure is the responsibility of owner, and i would love to hear their expert in court argue that water stains are normal, they are wrong, water stains are not normal, it is a indication that something is broke and has been broke for some time. I am sure any plumber would confirm. But if they think that leaks and stains from said leaks are normal, and the lack to maintain the building is there standard practice you would have some good ammo, proving that they are a slum lord and the building was already in disrepair.

6. Document everything, take you some pictures if you have not, keep good records, and know you now have a cnt for a landlord, i would be looking for a new spot, and sue the landlord for breach of contract, and loss of business, moving cost and lawyer fees, when they force you out, as for the repairs i would not do a single repair, nor spend a single dime on it, until my lease was coming to an end or they came in to repair it themselves and charge you for the damage.

[SavageSig]

Thank you for the comments. I'm convinced that she's trying to scare me, but I didn't like the idea of going to open up the store and finding the locks had been changed. She can't do that unless she goes through court first, right? And she's claiming that I'm in default on the maintenance clause of the lease. I'm just curious to see what sort of latitude the court would give me. Surely they can't evict for refusing to fix, say, a small mark on the wall. Where is the limit?

I thought the old owner was a stand up guy, but he seems to have given his approval of all this. He's getting CC'd any correspondence. I am planning on writing a note to him. I also know that the previous tenants of the spot are still in business across town. I was thinking about going over there to see if they will testify as to the condition of the place when they left.

What were you referring to in your point #4?

And for all people signing leases now, remember to take lots of pictures. I wish I had taken some when I had taken over this place.

1. I would get a written statement from the old land lord for the modifications, at the least make a record of dates and times along with any pictures to cyoa.

2. as far as the building being structurally sound that is the property leaser's responsibility,not the tenet , but you still can have it inspected by fire martial, or city inspector.

3. if you pulled a permit for the internal framing for the modification you would have had to have gotten a inspection, but since it was a lease more than likely the owner would have to pull the permit.

4. more than likely this didn't happen, due to owner wanting to dodge some city tax increase, that normally happens within 4 years of assessment.

5. I don't think they can terminate your lease unless you defaulted on part of your lease, or have agreed to accept terms that would indicate as such. but this statement "Their response was that they couldn't find any evidence of a leak, and any water stains are normal and my problem." would indicate that maintenance of the structure is the responsibility of owner, and i would love to hear their expert in court argue that water stains are normal, they are wrong, water stains are not normal, it is a indication that something is broke and has been broke for some time. I am sure any plumber would confirm. But if they think that leaks and stains from said leaks are normal, and the lack to maintain the building is there standard practice you would have some good ammo, proving that they are a slum lord and the building was already in disrepair.

6. Document everything, take you some pictures if you have not, keep good records, and know you now have a cnt for a landlord, i would be looking for a new spot, and sue the landlord for breach of contract, and loss of business, moving cost and lawyer fees, when they force you out, as for the repairs i would not do a single repair, nor spend a single dime on it, until my lease was coming to an end or they came in to repair it themselves and charge you for the damage.

Edited November 19, 2009 by SavageSig

[Guest H0TSH0T]

sorry continuation of point 3, my first assumption when i read this was that 1 of 2 things were in the mix.

1 they feel that they can make more money with someone else leasing it and plan on doing that once they oust you.

2 the owner wants the space for themselves and looking for a way to oust you.

they can file eviction papers, but you can fight it and stay there while the process plays out.

if they change the lock on the door while you are not there and you have paid your lease, it may be considered theft to some degree, i would check with local LEO, for what to do in advance.

but a cordless drill will open it no problems. just drill out the tumbler it will open.

[SavageSig]

Oh, most definitely she's trying to do #1. I have a 30 year lease on this spot, and at the end of a very threatening letter with notice of termination of lease, she said that she would let me move out and break the lease with no repairs needing to be made.

I thought that's the way evictions work, but thanks for verifying. And I have a very nice drill

sorry continuation of point 3, my first assumption when i read this was that 1 of 2 things were in the mix.

1 they feel that they can make more money with someone else leasing it and plan on doing that once they oust you.

2 the owner wants the space for themselves and looking for a way to oust you.

they can file eviction papers, but you can fight it and stay there while the process plays out.

if they change the lock on the door while you are not there and you have paid your lease, it may be considered theft to some degree, i would check with local LEO, for what to do in advance.

but a cordless drill will open it no problems. just drill out the tumbler it will open.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

still i would run this by a lawyer, and the most important thing is to document everything. take notes of all conversations, and keep copies of all letters, and would even consider a restraining order, but i would get a lawyer involved asap!

[oldogy]

I signed a long term lease on a property back in 2003. The lease is pretty standard, but the person handling it has changed. It was a pleasant old fellow who did everything by handshake, but now it's his daughter and she wants me out of there.

When I first moved in, the place had been a beauty shop. The tile was old, the carpet was cheap, the bathroom was old, etc. The layout was not suited to my needs, but the landlord said he didn't want to spend any money on the interior. He told me to do whatever I needed to make the space suit my needs. This meant knocking out a piece of drywall so I could install a large piece of equipment. He would often come by to chat, and he definitely looked at the modification and OK'd it. The new landlord is saying that I have to provide a statement from a contractor that it's structurally sound and that the wiring is safe. Is that true if it's been there for over 7 years?

The leae provides that the losing party pay for all lawyer fees in a dispute. Maybe a contractor too, if I do need to get my modification OK'd.

The lease agreement should be between the original owner, the old man, and you. Has wording in the lease given the new owner, daughter, authority to change terms?

oldogy

[SavageSig]

The lease agreement should be between the original owner, the old man, and you. Has wording in the lease has given the new owner, daughter, authority to change terms?

oldogy

I think their view is that the lease has always allowed them to do this, but the old man never thought he needed to before. I wonder if the courts will look at the first 7 years of our trouble free tenancy and say if they had a problem with us, they should have kicked us out long ago.

[MacGyver]

As someone who spends a lot of time in courtrooms, find a way to work this out without getting involved in a suit if you can. In so many cases in modern business litigation, it doesn't really matter who's right and who's wrong, it's all about the money. Litigation is really expensive, and so often the party in the right (assuming you in this case) still loses because they spent so much on litigation.

[mhm2a]

Commercial long term leases are often amended or changed to suit the parties changing needs. I would look into making amicable changes if you need them. If they are not willing to make those changes then you are stuck with the current signed agreement assuming you have a written lease. If you have no written lease then you better get to packing your stuff if they want you gone. Your oral or handshake agreements will not do you any good in a court of law.

[Garufa]

As someone who spends a lot of time in courtrooms, find a way to work this out without getting involved in a suit if you can. In so many cases in modern business litigation, it doesn't really matter who's right and who's wrong, it's all about the money. Litigation is really expensive, and so often the party in the right (assuming you in this case) still loses because they spent so much on litigation.

That's the American way. Unfortunately.

[Guest Muttling]

I signed a long term lease on a property back in 2003.

Do you still have a signed copy of it???

Read it word for word and then read it again. It's not uncommon for landlords to claim to have powers that aren't a part of the lease.

As was mentioned above, verbals are worthless. The thing that really matters is that which is specifically written in the lease. Keep a copy handy. When b..... girl comes around spewing, pull out the lease and say "I must have missed that clause." Could you show it to me?

As for having the power to lock you out, she might decide to do so even if she's not legally allowed to. If she does, it will require a lawsuit to make her to pay up for damages and possibly punitive.

Whatever you do, start keeping a journal and document every conversation/ encounter you have with them. You want to avoid court if possible, but such a record will help you if you can't avoid it.

[SavageSig]

We have a lease, but I guess we're reading it differently. The lease says we are responsible for maintaining the interior. We take that to mean to make sure the interior is safe for use. She's taking that to mean that we must fix all cosmetic flaws.

Also, if something isn't mentioned in the lease, who is assumed to control that particular aspect? For instance, we're fighting about use of parking areas around the building. Nothing is mentioned in the lease about this. Do we have control of the parking area, or does the landlord?

[SavageSig]

As someone who spends a lot of time in courtrooms, find a way to work this out without getting involved in a suit if you can. In so many cases in modern business litigation, it doesn't really matter who's right and who's wrong, it's all about the money. Litigation is really expensive, and so often the party in the right (assuming you in this case) still loses because they spent so much on litigation.

Oh, I know it. Lawyer fees add up quickly. Fortunately there is a clause in the lease which says that if a legal dispute is initiated, whoever loses has to pay all legal fees. I'm guessing this is why she hasn't hired a lawyer to write these threatening lawyers, and is instead writing them herself.

The repairs might even be cheaper than hiring a lawyer, but I don't want to set a precedent where she can boss me around.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

just a quick question, is the building a stand alone building , or do you share space in a building with other tenets?

[SavageSig]

just a quick question, is the building a stand alone building , or do you share space in a building with other tenets?

It's not an office building, but I am attached to one other business. Actually, all the problems started when they moved in. When it was lying vacant for several years, nobody bothered us at all. It's an odd situation with parking, because we're both right behind a gas station, and we have some common parking spots. The rub is whether we can use our drive thru or whether they want to make it an exclusive thoroughfare for the business attached to us, so people can pull around the building to park right next to them.