Does a class III have to be registered in calibers?

[jeffmem]

I have been looking around at some class III uzis. Can you add a 22 conversion to a 9mm legally or should it have been registered as 9mm and .22 on the NFA registry when it was created?

[Jasongar8]

You can use the .22 conversion, no problem.

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

Like, where have you been looking around? I want a Class III uzi too.

[Guest bwhited]

I have been looking around at some class III uzis. Can you add a 22 conversion to a 9mm legally or should it have been registered as 9mm and .22 on the NFA registry when it was created?

I would however notify the NFA in writing of the chage and make them informed that it is not a permenant change.

[jeffmem]

Like, where have you been looking around? I want a Class III uzi too.

I have been watching the sturmgewehr nfa board and the gunbroker class III section.

NFA Market Board - Message Index

Class III / NFA / Destructive Devices : Firearms (Modern) at GunBroker.com

Vectors seem to go for $7500+, other brands a little less.

[Guest TwoLaneBlackTop]

You need to make sure to get a registered receiver gun if you want to do caliber changes, a bolt gun is limited to just one caliber. Get a Vector, they are consistently the best civilian legal FA Uzi in my opinion. Any fully transferable IMI Model A Uzi is almost always a legally converted semi. There are a few pre-68 IMI fully transferable Uzi out there but the prices on them will likely be double what a typical registered receiver gun would go for.

If you go get a registered receiver converted IMI gun, make sure the blocking bar, and the barrel restriction ring have been removed. Some guns were submitted to the ATF as registered receiver guns, but they were modified into FA by cutting a slot in the side, and cutting out the face of a F/A bolt. These guns are in fact bolt guns, avoid them. Others had the blocking bar cut out, but kept the barrel restring ring. These are a true registered reciever but I would have the barrel restriction ring removed ASAP, then I would dispose of the bolt with the modified face and buy a new F/A bolt. You want one with both the ring, and the blocking bar removed.

Edited November 18, 2009 by TwoLaneBlackTop

[TNRobocop]

I know that I have a machine gun in the safe awaiting transfer that is registered as .45 AND 9mm.

I would let the ATF know in writing about a caliber adaption.

[TNZ71]

I don't think you need to notify ATFE of Caliber switch if the conversion is a drop in and can be switched back without modifying the firearm. Only if a permanent alteration to the gun.

Edited November 18, 2009 by TNZ71
sp

[Jasongar8]

I don't think you need to notify ATFE of Caliber switch if the conversion is a drop in and can be switched back without modifying the firearm. Only if a permanent alteration to the gun.

+1

[jeffmem]

Thanks for all of the advice.

[Guest TwoLaneBlackTop]

Non-permanent caliber conversions are fine regardless of what the original paperwork stated.

If you are a little worried all F/A Uzi built on Group Industries receivers (this includes ALL the F/A guns assembled by Vector) are registered in 0.22 LR, 9mm, and 0.45 ACP

[jeffmem]

Non-permanent caliber conversions are fine regardless of what the original paperwork stated.

If you are a little worried all F/A Uzi built on Group Industries receivers (this includes ALL the F/A guns assembled by Vector) are registered in 0.22 LR, 9mm, and 0.45 ACP

So vectors are "receiver" guns and not "bolt" guns?

[Guest TwoLaneBlackTop]

So vectors are "receiver" guns and not "bolt" guns?

That is correct. The Vector guns were built on Group Industries receivers using new parts from Lyttleton Engineering, a company from South Africa. Israel was South Africa's best ally at the time and let them produce Galil rifles and Uzi sub-machineguns in the late 70's/80's without paying a licensing fee. At the time South Africa were fighting various communist forces especially in Angola, and some infiltrators from Mozambique and a country I still like to call Rhodesia. So, when I say South Africa in this context, think 70's/80's South Africa, not the third-world cesspool it has resorted to since the mid 90's.

Group Industries made an all US built UZi in the 80's. The official name of the group receivers are HR4332, an obvious joke as HR4332 was the bill that eliminated further civilian machine gun manufacture. GI built and registered as many receivers as they could before the ban went into effect. Eventually Group ran out of UZi parts, and soon went bankrupt. When their assets were auctioned off Vector Arms bought all the registered receivers. Eventually Vector sourced the SA made UZi parts and in 1999 or so started selling new F/A Uzi built on the HR4332 receivers for about $2000 (wish I was old enough to have bought one at the time)

So the short answer to your question is, Yes. any F/A Uzi from Vector is a registered receiver.

If you want to know more about the Vector Uzi and how it came to be you can read the long version here.

UZI Talk - Vector UZI

UZI Talk - Vector UZI

Here is some conversion info if you are interested in converted IMI receiver guns. Some conversion guns are great, but I prefer the Vector Uzi.

UZI Talk - Full Auto Conversions

I bought a Vector Uzi about a year ago, and do not regret it one bit.

[jeffmem]

That is correct. The Vector guns were built on Group Industries receivers using new parts from Lyttleton Engineering, a company from South Africa. Israel was South Africa's best ally at the time and let them produce Galil rifles and Uzi sub-machineguns in the late 70's/80's without paying a licensing fee. At the time South Africa were fighting various communist forces especially in Angola, and some infiltrators from Mozambique and a country I still like to call Rhodesia. So, when I say South Africa in this context, think 70's/80's South Africa, not the third-world cesspool it has resorted to since the mid 90's.

Group Industries made an all US built UZi in the 80's. The official name of the group receivers are HR4332, an obvious joke as HR4332 was the bill that eliminated further civilian machine gun manufacture. GI built and registered as many receivers as they could before the ban went into effect. Eventually Group ran out of UZi parts, and soon went bankrupt. When their assets were auctioned off Vector Arms bought all the registered receivers. Eventually Vector sourced the SA made UZi parts and in 1999 or so started selling new F/A Uzi built on the HR4332 receivers for about $2000 (wish I was old enough to have bought one at the time)

So the short answer to your question is, Yes. any F/A Uzi from Vector is a registered receiver.

If you want to know more about the Vector Uzi and how it came to be you can read the long version here.

UZI Talk - Vector UZI

UZI Talk - Vector UZI

Here is some conversion info if you are interested in converted IMI receiver guns. Some conversion guns are great, but I prefer the Vector Uzi.

UZI Talk - Full Auto Conversions

I bought a Vector Uzi about a year ago, and do not regret it one bit.

Thanks for the information. How did you find yours? Any preferred dealers? What do you think I should pay now days?

[Guest TwoLaneBlackTop]

Thanks for the information. How did you find yours? Any preferred dealers? What do you think I should pay now days?

I found mine on the Sturmgewehr NFA Market Board - Message Index and it was purchased from an out of state indivisual, so I had to pay a $200 tax stamp to have it transferred to a local SOT, and then another $200 to have it transferred to myself.

If you don't know already what form 3, and 4 are....

Form 3 an SOT to SOT tax free transfer.

Form 4 an individual to SOT, SOT/FFL to individual*, or individual to individual tax paid transfer** total tax on a Form 4 is $200.

*An SOT or FFL can only transfer ownership on a form 4 to an individual when both parties live in the same state.

**An individual owner can only transfer to another individual when both parties live in the same state.

The scenarios you are likely to encounter are....

Scenario 1. Buy from an out of state individual. The owner of the gun files a form 4 to transfer ownership to a dealer (SOT holder) that is in your state. Once the SOT holder receives the item you fill out a form 4 and pay the dealer a fee for his transfer. Thus..... $200+$200+($ dealer transfer fee) = $400+($ dealer transfer fee)

Scenario 2. Buy from an out of state SOT. The SOT transfers the gun on a form 3 tax free. Once the SOT holder receives the item you fill out a form 4 and pay the dealer a fee for his transfer. Thus..... $200+($ dealer transfer fee)

Scenario 3. Buy from an in-state individual. A form 4 is filed by the owner of the gun directly transferring ownership to you. Thus the total cost of taxes here is just $200

Scenario 4. Buy from an in-state dealer. A form 4 is filed by the SOT or FFL directly transferring ownership to you. Thus the total cost of taxes here is $200 + TN sales tax (on an expensive item like this it is a considerable tax!)

Dealers typically charge $50 to $100 for an NFA transfer.

A form 4 typically takes 4 to 6 months as of now to get approved, a form 3 takes about 1 to 2 months. So, the total wait times are...

Scenario 1. ( 8 to 12 months )

Scenario 2. ( 5 to 8 months )

Scenario 3. ( 4 to 6 months )

Scenario 4. ( 4 to 6 months )

Even thought I had to pay the $200 tax twice and a $50 dealer transfer fee it was still much cheaper for me to buy from an out of state individual.

Most SOT holders tend to get about $500 to $1000 more on a gun than an individual will. I bought a MAC-10 from a dealer once because the price was about $700 under market value but it was not really his, it was a consignment sale and the gun was still on a form 4.

Places to look include

NFA Market Board - Message Index

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/

Guns - Online Gun Auction - Guns at GunBroker.com -I have seen a few good deals on NFA here at times-

MACHINE GUN DEALER, MACHINE GUNS FOR SALE, MACHINE GUN DEALERS list of NFA dealers

Also, it is good to look at the machine-gun price guide. All the prices are based on known ASKING price, and not necessarily the selling price.

http://machinegunpriceguide.com

For a nice UZi that is in fantastic condition (but has been shot) expect to pay....

Vector Uzi ($6800 to $7500)

Good registered receiver conversion ($6000 to $6500)

Bolt gun ($5000 to $5500) bolt and converted semi-host.

Registered bolt ($4000 to $4500)

Edited November 20, 2009 by TwoLaneBlackTop