Favorite caliber and why?

[Guest cowboy20th]

Alright everybody lets start another caliber debate.

I am looking into getting an AR15 and need to choose the caliber so I can build the rifle around that.

I really wanted to go with a 6.5 grendel after seeing it on future weapons, but it does not seem to be main stream yet and would most likely not serve my purposes well.

So how about some input? Looking for a round that can get me good dependable shots at about 300-700 yrds. This will not be a 1000yrd rifle, but if it happens to serve that purpose as well with little to no extra expensive then that is icing on the cake. I also want something practical to shoot, easily available, not too expensive, etc. And would also like for it to serve more than one purpose. By this i mean a round I can use in a 16-24 inch or so rifle with reliability. I know this last condition will be a little harder to meet so it is not that important, but would be nice.

So, does anyone have a reccomendation or would like to convert me to their caliber of choice?

[Guest JHatmaker]

6.5 is going to be harder to come by. And unless all you're into is long-range shooting, I'd go with 6.8 SPC or just 5.56.

But since you stated you're looking for something dependable at 700 yds, the 6.5 might be the one for you. You may want to start reloading if you don't already.

If I recall, only a few companies make 6.5 Grendel ammo.

[Smith]

The good thing about the 6.5 is that Wolf produces some fairly cheap plinking stuff and the round has great downrange/long range performance. The 6.8 is probably going to be more mainstream in the future and just about every maker is making 6.8. It is great for what it is designed for which is an upgrade to the 5.56. The 6.8 is a 300 yrd and in round and does very well with that. Trajectory is near the same as the .308 at similar distances (under 350 yrds), so ballistics are easier to figure.

the way I see them the 6.5 is a boutique round that does what it was designed for and the 6.8 is a fighting round that does what it was designed for. I really like the 6.8 for everything other than long range stuff.

The 6.8 is gets about all it's going to get out of a 16" so barrel is kinda irrelevant. The 6.5 is more traditional in that barrel length will change velocities.

As far as the 5.56 .......just not for me.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Smith

[Guest Muttling]

I strongly second taking a look at cost of ammo when selecting. My favorite long range weapon was a Weatherby 270 mag that I used to own, but it was stupidly expensive to shoot.

I'm also a big .308 fan, but there's plenty of arguments for other cartridges as well.

[nightrunner]

I would reccommend a AR-10 in .308Win. But in an AR-15 6.8SPC would be the best.

[Guest .45]

6.8 SPC

better terminal performance than 5.56.

only downside is ammo price...I don't reload, and that 6.8 really puts a hurt on the wallet.

.45

[mk19]

My next AR is going to be 6.5, i think it is going to catch on better than 6.8. It has same or better ballistics under 300 and over 300 it leaves 6.8 in the dust. With Wolf producing really reasonable priced, decently accurate ammo it is something to look at.

[1gewehr]

The 6.5 Grendel out of a 19 or 20" barrel is an excellent choice for a 'Designated Marksman's Rifle'. As the original poster stated, it would be perfect for shots from 0-700yards. And from 400 yards out it will out-perform any other caliber you can fire from an AR15 platform.

The Wolf ammo is becoming available again. I would suggest that anyone who is getting into this caliber invest in at least a case of the ammo. Reloading is pretty inexpensive, but you've got to have the cases to reload. And buying the loaded Wolf ammo is not a whole lot more expensive than buying new cases from other manufacturers.

[Smith]

My next AR is going to be 6.5, i think it is going to catch on better than 6.8. It has same or better ballistics under 300 and over 300 it leaves 6.8 in the dust. With Wolf producing really reasonable priced, decently accurate ammo it is something to look at.

What makes you say that? The 6.8 is being used in the military and and every maker makes an upper for it. The only downside is available ammo, but that is coming on as well. The 6.5 is still very limited by makers, mags, etc. and the only advantage is Wolf making ammo for it. If it weren't for Wolf Alexander Arms would be about the only place to get ammo for it.

Just curious as to why you think it will catch up and overtake the 6.8.

[Guest 70below]

I prefer the 6.5, but I think the 6.8 got off to a better start because of AA stranglehold on it early on. There are some companies offering low priced options now thankfully, but it may be too late to grab hold.

[mk19]

What makes you say that? The 6.8 is being used in the military and and every maker makes an upper for it. The only downside is available ammo, but that is coming on as well. The 6.5 is still very limited by makers, mags, etc. and the only advantage is Wolf making ammo for it. If it weren't for Wolf Alexander Arms would be about the only place to get ammo for it.

Just curious as to why you think it will catch up and overtake the 6.8.

The reason i think 6.5 is going to take over 6.8 is basic human common sense. people would go for the better performing round. the only reason anyone would use 6.8 is because they don't know about 6.5. I believe 6.8 is a fad that is going to pass and be forgotten. it is like this would you buy a car that can only do 4 second 0-60, can't go past let's say 88 MPH,and handles like a shopping cart? Or would you buy a BMW M3 that does 3.9 sec 0-6, has a top speed of 160 mph and handles like a race car? and it costs you less to use it. If anyone wants 300 or under yard performance in an AR they should get a 7.62x39 upper, at least ammo is available and cheap.

[nightrunner]

an AR in 7.62x39mm is a oxymoron. take a clean accurate rifle and chamber it in the dirtiest least accurate semiauto rifle cartridge available, brilliant.

6.5 is just another wildcat. 6.5 does not match 6.8 performance under 300 yards out of a 16" barrel. the 6.8 was DESIGNED to be fired from a 16" or shorter barrel, like the common AR. yes 6.5 does surpass the 6.8 IF you are shooting past 300yards and can have a longer barrel like 20-24"+ barrel.

6.5 should not even be considered for anything but a DMR. 6.8SPC should be your only consideration for a high-capacity CQB-type rifle. if high-capacity isnt a concern, definetely consider .458SOCOM. and yes .458SOCOM is better than .50beowulf

or if you are concerned about picking up ammo and mags in post-SHTF/TEOTWAWKI, get 5.56nato

[mk19]

7.62x39 is as oxymoron as 6.8, their performance is about that same. Note the highlight.

where do you get your info?

chart with long barrel 6.5 Grendel vs 6.8 SPC, 7.62 NATO & 5.56 NATO - Shooters Forum check the attachment in the first post.

Airborne Combat Engineer: 6.5 Grendel vs. 6.8 SPC, revisited

Logic would seem to dictate a round with better terminal velocity and energy at longer ranges would also be better at shorter ranges, and a table [based on factory data for 20-inch barrels, not independent tests] in the aforementioned article supports this.

The 6.8 SPC 115gr leaves the muzzle at 2700 fps, and drops to 2417 at 100 meters and 1903 at 300 meters. Energy is 1861 at the barrel, 1492 at 100 meters, and 925 at 300 meters.

The 6.5 Grendel 123 leaves the muzzle at 2600 fps and drops to 2426 at 100 and 2098 at 300. Energy starts at 1846 and drops to 1607 at 100 and 1202 at 300.

At longer ranges, it's still all Grendel, as expected. At 500 meters, the Grendel retains 1797fps and 882 ft-lbs energy, compared to 1470 and 552 for the 6.8 SPC. The difference becomes more pronounced out to 1000 yards

6.5 Grendel Fan Site :: For the 6.5 Grendel Aficionado

As might be expected, bigger MatchKings produce greater fragmentation and correspondingly larger wound cavities. In May 2006 ballistic gelatin tests were conducted for 6.5 Grendel ammunition loaded with 123-grain MatchKings, which penetrated 2.0-2.5 inches before yawing and fragmenting. The gelatin blocks were shot from a distance of 50 yards, using an Alexander Arms Tactical 14.5 carbine. With an impact velocity of 2385 feet per second, maximum penetration was a shade over 16 inches, and maximum permanent cavity diameter was more than 6 inches. The bullet broke apart into multiple small fragments with jacket pieces visible at 11 inches and 13 inches.

oh almost forgot, 7.62x39's inaccuracy is not only because of the round but because of the rifle (AK47 type) you put an ok round in a very good platform and you get good performance.

Edited November 15, 2009 by mk19

[nightrunner]

yes, the downfall to 7.62x39mm is for one the main platform, the inaccurate AK-47 and two the lack of good ammo. If there were more match-grade ammo out the for 7.62x39mm it would be more comparable.

btw, 7.62x51mm is 7.62NATO not 7.62x39mm

[Chief07]

16" .50!

My very favorite!

;-)

[mk19]

[quote name=

btw, 7.62x51mm is 7.62NATO not 7.62x39mm[/quote]

Really? I guess i just crawled out from under a rock. now that is just insulting, to even mention that statement.

Edited November 16, 2009 by mk19

[Guest BigShot]

Not being a high volume plinker with rifle rounds, I am slowly turning toward the 458 SOCOM as a "do all" AR toy for less than 200 yards. I mean really... how many times have you ever been shootin past 400?? 3 times for me, in 30 years. Why no go for the mostest in your 99% target range?

Note: .308 is the way... Just won't fit in an AR.

[nightrunner]

Really? I guess i just crawled out from under a rock. now that is just insulting, to even mention that statement.

sorry. however the first paragraph in your last post had a link comparing 6.5, 6.8, 7.62nato, and 5.56nato. i incorrectly thought that you were thinking 7.62nato when i said x39. my mistake. i know it came across as such but I didnt mean to insinuate that you didnt know the difference between nato and x39. more of this is what i meant and this is what you said. my apologies.

[molonlabetn]

.223rem... because it's so easy to install a .22lr conversion kit for plinking, and .223 is plenty for anything you might need to shoot, besides large game.

[guyandarifle]

I've got a DPMS in .308 and can't imagine wanting another caliber. I will say I've also got another .308 bolt rifle and handload for both so as you can imagine having it work that way makes sense for my situation.

[mk19]

sorry. however the first paragraph in your last post had a link comparing 6.5, 6.8, 7.62nato, and 5.56nato. i incorrectly thought that you were thinking 7.62nato when i said x39. my mistake. i know it came across as such but I didnt mean to insinuate that you didnt know the difference between nato and x39. more of this is what i meant and this is what you said. my apologies.

Thank you kind sir, caliber is one of the hottly contested topics that mostly comes to misunderstandings.