Primers

[broylz]

there will be a tiny difference between different manufacturers like anything else. just watch out for magnum primers like stated above.

[leroy]

Quick question: Starting to make my 1st bullets using the load data I got from the Accurate Arms.

185gr JHP, 5.7gr starting load of AA#2.. but they recommended Federal 150 LP primers.... I only have Remington 2-1/2 LP primers. Are they the same or does this change my load requirements now?!

Dear TNTitan:__________

The cautions you normally read about primer changes are really geared to rifle loads; although the reloading components guys wont readily say that. Don't worry about primer changes on pistol ammo if it is a standard to standard primer switch (like yours). That having been said; always look for signs of high pressure when working up a load for the first time. They are extremely flattened primers, pierced primers, primer flow back into the firing pin hole. Also, watch out for too little pressure too; they usually produce a squib load that just pops. If you hear one; be sure to check the barrel for a lodged bullet.

When working up a load for the first time; I always look at as many reloading manuals as i can and compare the data for the load i am interested in. It is always good to do what you are doing and go the the powder manufacturers data also. Standard velocity loads are pretty tame as to pressure. Problems with individual pistol loads start showing up when you start loading for magnum velocities.

That having been said; my problems with overpressure generally came from too much powder; not a change in primers.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

LEROY

[Guest tnvolfan]

I am like many of you and have been calling around and asking dealers if they have certain primers for sale. Of course dealers want to sell you something if they can, but I'm beginning to get a little worried by the advice that I'm receiving. At the Knoxville gun show this past weekend, one dealer told me that I could use small pistol MAGNUM primers just like small pistol primers, and that Federal was going to stop making small pistol primers because there was so little difference. Hmm?? That sounded fishy, except that he had none of either to sell. I had a different local dealer tell me that I could use substitute small rifle primers for small pistol primers if I was using a larger caliber, like a .38 special or greater. He did have the small rifle primers. I didn't like the way that sounded, again, too fishy. I know that many of us are struggling to find this stuff, but this really concerns me. Isn't somebody going to blow up and/or damage their gun with this kind of advice??

Fortunately, I found what I needed, but there are plenty out there who haven't and are likely to do something they shouldn't. Those of you who've been reloading a long time, what's the true story about using the wrong primer?

[Rightwinger]

Some primers can be substituted. You could use a Magnum primer in some small pistol loadings if you backed off the charge. To me, there is to much room for error and don't want to bother with the work up. There is enough of that with proven loadings.

Now, using rifle stuff in pistol....no way. When you start going outside the boundaries like that you risk lots of problems. The biggest to me would be a primer extending outside the cup that could be fired while moving in the magazine or entering the chamber.

Do not do this stuff! Even with an experts advice, I would stay away from hodge podge loading. Doing it the tried and true way has enough problems to manage on its own to be adding any more potential for failure.

[TGO David]

What he said.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Actually you can use small rifle primers in small pistol loadings.. what you can't do is use large rifle primers in large pistol. My .40 S&W load is Winchester Small Rifle primers, Winchester brass, 4.5 grs of Tightgroup, with a cast 180 TC bullet. Here is the thing.. If you load a lot of 223 and small pistol.. it is better to use one primer so that you don't get them mixed up.. hence, use the small rifle primer.. there are many competitors out there that do this.. if you don't believe me.. check it out on Brian Eno's page.. you will find a lot of references to using small rifle primers in the 9mm and the .40.. esp 3 gun competitors. So the OP would be fine with using small rifle primers.. I would like to know what caliber he is loading for.

Here is something to know.. just because it says "magnum" primer.. don't mean that it is a hotter flame primer.. for instance.. Wolf "magnum" primers, are not "magnum" primers, they are normal burning primers with a harder cup.. the amount of ignition compound in the primer is the same, wether it is a standard or magnum primer. The designation of "magnum" primers by Wolf is to denote the harder cup of the primer.. which make them great in the .223 and .308 auto loading firearms.

The main thing is it don't matter what your loading for.. when you change a componet like primers.. it is always best to start over and test. Just like when you get a new lot of powder, you must go back and test.. For instance, the standard 308 Palma load is a 155 grain bullet loaded with 47 grains of Varget in Winchester brass, using CCI BR2's.. I have seen lots of Varget, that the burn rate had drasticly change, once it was 47 grains of powder to get the required volocity and accuracy, then with the next lot, it only took 45.5 grains to achive the same thing.. so what had happened is that the second lot of powder had a faster burn rate the the earlier one. Burn rates on powders are never consistant from lot to lot.. my current load for my Palma rifle is 47.2 grains of Varget, Winchester brass, Wolf Large Rifle "magnum" primers with the Sierra 2156 155.5 grain Palma bullet.

Right now.. the best primers out there for reduction in vertical dispersion is Wolf and Federal Match.. Winchester comes in third. And when the Remington Highpower Team is using Federal Match primers.. should tell you something.

If you really want to get anal about it.. like me, you can weigh your primers.. well I do for 1000 yard shooting.. I am all about trying to reduce vertical dispersion, which is very important when shooting at 1000 yards.

[Hidalgo]

Actually you can use small rifle primers in small pistol loadings.. what you can't do is use large rifle primers in large pistol.

Here is the thing.. If you load a lot of 223 and small pistol.. it is better to use one primer so that you don't get them mixed up..

Froggy, I assume that you are an experienced reloader, and also an experienced shooter.

What I can't understand is WHY you would give such advice to a guy who is obviously an inexperienced loader?

Not only are you going out on a limb by giving advice about loads that isn't verified in a loading manual anywhere, but you're also encouraging the OP to experiment and use data and components that aren't already tested and verified. Neither of which is what most experienced reloaders would consider as "well thoughtout advice".

I'm not trying to piss you off, nor belittle you, nor make it seem that you have given bad advice about component substitutions. But the better option is to just say: "If it isn't in the loading manual, then don't do it."

There are already enough reloading accidents happening. And each one brings us a little closer to losing the privilege to buy components and roll our own ammo.

Like I said ... not meaning to offend. But in my eyes, I wouldn't have given that info to him.

Just saying ........

[Guest tnvolfan]

In response to Hidalgo, I want to say that I heartily agree that inexperienced reloaders have no business trying to experiment with the powder loading formulas and changing out primers. Personally, I'm not willing to risk my safety and the safety of my guns for this. What I have learned is that there are some folks out there who are pushing the limits on this stuff, for whatever reason. What they do for themselves is their business as long as they realize the risks. I just hope they are respectful enough of the physics to take some precautions.

What I really question and frankly, resent, is a dealer who would sell primers that they know are going to be used for the wrong application. With all these primer shortages, this has got to be happening a lot, and they are going to get someone hurt. I go strictly by the books, and I say books because I double and triple check formulas. I want to make sure that the formulas I use can be supported by literature. I copy it and put it in my reloading log. Am I scared, you bet! I respect that this stuff could put my eyes out and blow up my hand. But I love reloading; it's kinda therapeutic. It's fun. It's economical. It's science. But it's only as safe as the person makes it. I share my loads with my family, and God knows, I would never want to hurt anyone. I wager that I'm like most reloaders. I just hope and pray that we reloaders don't take bad advice and do stupid things.

[ftncityfatboy]

tnvolfan, as a new reloader (maybe 7/8 months), I wouldn't think about steering off the proven path, and I think you are wise to choose only loads that are in the reloading data books. if it works, don't tinker wit it. too much room for boo-boo's and the last thing you want is to cause damage to the lovely, beautiful, wonderfully shooting XDm .40 you let me shoot! I still am having visions about that!!! swaa-eett! Stick to what you know and what is printed, our guns, eyes, fingers, and faces are worth too much to risk damaging by using wrong primers, powders, etc. JMTCW!!!

[timcalhoun]

What I really question and frankly, resent, is a dealer who would sell primers that they know are going to be used for the wrong application. With all these primer shortages, this has got to be happening a lot, and they are going to get someone hurt. I go strictly by the books, and I say books because I double and triple check formulas. I want to make sure that the formulas I use can be supported by literature. I copy it and put it in my reloading log. Am I scared, you bet! I respect that this stuff could put my eyes out and blow up my hand. But I love reloading; it's kinda therapeutic. It's fun. It's economical. It's science. But it's only as safe as the person makes it. I share my loads with my family, and God knows, I would never want to hurt anyone. I wager that I'm like most reloaders. I just hope and pray that we reloaders don't take bad advice and do stupid things.

It's not the wrong application. Hand loaders have been forever changing different components including primers. Many common cartridges started out as wildcat cartridges that came from this same group. And let me quote from my Hornady Hand book of Cartridge Reloading.

"Never substitute a magnum primer for a top load you have developed using a standard primer. This change in components, as any component change, can cause unexpected pressure differences. If a component is changed, always start at the lowest powder charge listed and work upwards".

But never do something you don't feel comfortable doing.

[Guest canebreaker]

I'm a wildcater with loads, lite loads so Flutterby can shoot as much as I do. .38 spl. 120 gr. rn. 2.2 gr. bullseye.

I haven't swapped primers yet. I'm finding the primers for what I need.

[Guest tnvolfan]

I, too, have been fortunate enough to find the primers I need. It's just that if I call a local store and ask for specific primers, or if I go to a gun show and ask for specific primers, a dealer/exhibitor tries to sell me something else. I don't need ANY AMMO that badly, and I truly hope that others, who aren't as well-versed in ballistics and reloading as someone like FroggyOne2, won't try to do something they are certainly not qualified to do. Safety first!

Edited September 24, 2009 by tnvolfan

[Guest quadruss83]

Can anyone tell me the difference in rem 209 and rem 209p and also fed 209 and 209a, any help is appreciated!

[Guest Bust'em]

remington is the same, the federal 209 is a old primer while the 209A is the modern hotter primer, do not interchange the federals..

[Guest quadruss83]

Thanks for the info!!

[Guest m&pc9]

Do you guys use the same mfg primers. I have been using winchester small pistol primers. I bought some CCI and also a few Federal. Should I be able to use the same recipes as before. I am not loading anything hot, all my reloads are on the lower side of powder.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

you should be ok as long as they are not magnum primers, if mag primers you will need to reduce you powder 10%

i use Magtec and Remington no noticeable differences

[Trekbike]

Should I be able to use the same recipes as before. I am not loading anything hot, all my reloads are on the lower side of powder.

I agree with HOTSHOT, you will be okay. I've had to do the same thing due to the primer shortage. Always used CCI, had to go to Winchester, then Federal, now Remington. I never changed the grain amount due to the lighter loads I run.

Out of the batch I'll probably standardize on Winchester in the future.

[TNTitan]

i mix and match primer brands.. but stay with the right sizes. Dont use magnums unless you really know what youre doing.

[frankmako]

i mix brands. these day i use what i can get.