UPS......LEARN YOUR POLICY!!!!!!

[timcalhoun]

Went to ship a gun at UPS main hub off Briley PKY and I first got the old you need to have a copy of the persons FFL and then it eroded into the gun can only be shipped from FFL to FFL. Had to wait 40 mins for the security guy to come and then had to call my smith and my guy rattled off his FFL number and then they shipped it. Like they even knew it was a valid FFL number. What a joke. They don't even know their own policy.

I have shipped guns from there a bunch of times and this is the first round of BS from UPS. I have experienced the same from Fed-Ex a bunch of times.

[DavidD]

Yes my friend, they are idiots there. See post 9 at http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handguns/18899-s-w-ppk-ppk-s-recall.html#post261644

Go FedEx

[DaveTN]

Same thing happened to me at the Murfreesboro hub. I called UPS corporate and had to go through a cubicle drone and talk to a manager. He said the Security Officer was wrong in his interpretation of their policy, but because a firearm was involved he was not going to over ride his decision.

[Smith]

IT has been my experience on several occasions that you are correct. They do not know their policy and the mangers won't make any decision contradictory to the counter regarding guns. Right or wrong I have since stopped telling them anything unnecessary.

[56FordGuy]

Which end of Briley parkway were you on, east (by the airport) or west (by the prison)? I've never used the one on the west side of Nashville on White's Creek Pike, but there is another UPS hub off of Massman Drive, which is just a few minutes off Briley over by the airport on Elm Hill Pike. I've shipped ammo through them several times, never had any questions.

I believe their firearms policy is on their website, might help to print it off and take it with you.

[DaveTN]

Right or wrong I have since stopped telling them anything unnecessary.

Federal law requires you tell them you are shipping a firearm. I refuse to lower myself to commit a crime because they don’t know their own policies.

[Smith]

Federal law requires you tell them you are shipping a firearm. I refuse to lower myself to commit a crime because they don’t know their own policies.

That would be considered necessary. Correct? I rarely ship a "firearm".

[timcalhoun]

Which end of Briley parkway were you on, east (by the airport) or west (by the prison)? I've never used the one on the west side of Nashville on White's Creek Pike, but there is another UPS hub off of Massman Drive, which is just a few minutes off Briley over by the airport on Elm Hill Pike. I've shipped ammo through them several times, never had any questions.

I believe their firearms policy is on their website, might help to print it off and take it with you.

West side. I guess I need to print out their policy or just have a copy of the FFL. What utter BS.

[strickj]

That would be considered necessary. Correct? I rarely ship a "firearm".

Let us know how that works out for you!

When you do,I'll be sure to ship you some "soap"

[Smith]

Let us know how that works out for you!

When you do,I'll be sure to ship you some "soap"

Just fine thank you. BTW sometimes I even go over the speed limit.

[deerslayer]

That would be considered necessary. Correct? I rarely ship a "firearm".

If you ship a frame, you are shipping a gun, as far as the BATFE is concerned.

[Smith]

If you ship a frame, you are shipping a gun, as far as the BATFE is concerned.

Yes. Well at least the serialized part of the frame/gun.

[deerslayer]

Most frames/receivers have serial numbers.

[willis68]

I shipped my Sig this morning at that UPS Hub, I had the shipping label from SIG and handed the guy my blue box and it and no hassle whatsoever, took less than 2 minutes and It was boxed up and sent, I couldn't have been happier they didn't even ask if it was a firearm, of course the shipping label more than likely told them

[TNRobocop]

I always go to the one on Massman Drive without any problems.

They know me there now and one of the guys working freight I have sold stuff too helps, but I have never had a problem at the Massman location.

[Guest Gun Geek]

Remember UPS stores are privately owned and they can make up their own rules, always go to the hub, also yes law states that if you are shipping a firearm you must inform the carrier. A firearm is the serial numbered part of the gun, frame, receiver etc etc. If you dont tell them and they catch you, you could be in deep poo.

Also never let the counter people tell you their policy 95% of the time they really dont know it. Ask for a manager right off the bat.

The big thing with UPS is that if it is a pistol, according to their policy it has to be shipped next day that is where some of the confusion comes in. A racket to get extra cash.

[macville]

Remember UPS stores are privately owned and they can make up their own rules, always go to the hub, also yes law states that if you are shipping a firearm you must inform the carrier. A firearm is the serial numbered part of the gun, frame, receiver etc etc. If you dont tell them and they catch you, you could be in deep poo.

Ummm...where exactly does it say that you have to inform? Yes, the ATF in their FAQ on their website has that listed, but no one has ever been able to show me the legal code to support that. If you can find it, I would love to know exactly where to find it, because after some searching I don't think it actually exists.

Matthew

[Reservoir Dog]

Ummm...where exactly does it say that you have to inform? Yes, the ATF in their FAQ on their website has that listed, but no one has ever been able to show me the legal code to support that. If you can find it, I would love to know exactly where to find it, because after some searching I don't think it actually exists.

Matthew

The section of law is Title 18 US Code, Section 922(e). The way I read it, you are only required to inform the carrier if you are shipping a firearm to someone other than a licensed dealer/manufacturer/collector/importer.

Title 18 USC 922(e):

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

[Oh Shoot]

Federal law requires you tell them you are shipping a firearm. I refuse to lower myself to commit a crime because they don’t know their own policies.

I also have to say that this is wrong.

Everybody says that.

Somewhere in the ATF FAQ it says that.

But the law says differently.

It says that only in person to person shipments, must the carrier be notified.

Read it (underline and bold mine)

============================

18 U. S. C. 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

===============================

As long as I'm shipping to an FFL, I simply pack up the firearm, buy/print label online, and drop it off at any agent, usually a UPS store. They don't ask, I don't tell.

- OS

edit: didn't read Reservoir Dog's post first.

[strickj]

Just fine thank you. BTW sometimes I even go over the speed limit.

The big difference is with one you receive a 50 dollar fine. The other federal jail time

[Oh Shoot]

Remember UPS stores are privately owned and they can make up their own rules, always go to the hub, also yes law states that if you are shipping a firearm you must inform the carrier.,,,

Everybody seems to say that, because everybody seems to say that, I guess.

See the printed law in posts above.

- OS

[Guest canynracer]

Funny...the talk about the laws...how bout the policy of UPS, that is what they are going to follow...according to THEIR POLICY, you must inform (See below in red)...the law has little to do with it...if you dont like that, find another carrier (BTW, pretty much ALL carriers will have very similar policies)

<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=422><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=center width="100%">Shipping Firearms</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- End: Page Header --><!-- Start: Module (Not Intro) Header --><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=566><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=422><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD>Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>UPS accepts packages containing firearms, as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code, for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors, as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code, law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States) and law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), and from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law and when such shipment complies with all applicable federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient and package.

• Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air<SUP>®</SUP> Early A.M.<SUP>®</SUP>, UPS Next Day Air<SUP>®</SUP>, or UPS Next Day Air Saver<SUP>®</SUP> services. (Note: UPS Express Critical<SUP><SMALL>SM</SMALL></SUP> Service is not available for firearms).
  
• UPS accepts firearm parts for shipment, provided the part is not a "firearm" as defined under federal law; the contents of the package cannot be assembled to form a firearm; and the package otherwise complies with federal, state, and local law. (Note: Receivers or frames of a firearm, firearm mufflers and silencers are considered "firearms" and are accepted for transportation only if shipped in accordance with UPS's requirements for shipping firearms.)
  
• UPS does not accept automatic weapons, including machine guns, for shipment.
  
• Firearms, including handguns, and firearm parts are not accepted for shipment internationally
  
• Ammunition may be accepted for shipment internationally provided it is shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping International Goods.
  
• UPS Returns<SUP><SMALL>SM</SMALL></SUP> Services are not available for packages containing firearms.
  

</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>Follow These Packing Requirements</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>

• Packages containing handguns must be separated from other packages being delivered to UPS.
  
• Ammunition cannot be included in packages that contain firearms (including handguns). Ammunition must be shipped in accordance with the UPS Guide for Shipping Ground and Air Hazardous Materials, or the UPS Guide for Shipping International Dangerous Goods.
  
• Small arms ammunition, as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 173.59, will be transported only when packaged and labeled in compliance with 49 C.F.R. § 172 regarding hazardous materials shipments.
  

</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>About Documentation and Labeling</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>

• The shipper must use Delivery Confirmation Adult Signature Required service for each package containing a firearm, including a handgun, and affix a UPS label requesting an adult signature upon delivery.
  

</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>Getting Your Firearm Shipment to UPS</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>

• You can only ship your package that contains a handgun from UPS daily pickup accounts or through UPS Customer Centers (counters at UPS operational facilities). Note: Handguns are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or UPS On-Call Pickup<SUP><SMALL>SM</SMALL></SUP>, or at The UPS Store<SUP>®</SUP> or any third party retailer.
  
• When you are shipping a package that contains a handgun, you must verbally notify the UPS driver or UPS Customer Center clerk.
  
• You can ship a firearm (excluding handguns), from a UPS daily pickup account, UPS On-Call Pickup, One-Time Pickup, or a UPS Customer Center. Note: Firearms are not accepted for shipment through UPS Internet Shipping, UPS Drop Boxes, or at The UPS Store or any third party retailer.
  
• See the terms and conditions in the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service for information regarding firearm shipments
  

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Edited November 10, 2009 by canynracer

[Guest canynracer]

Oh...and before you think I am pushing FedEx, they are very similar.

From Tariff policy

<LI type=A>Firearms

1. Carrier will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = ST1 /><ST1:COUNTRY-REGION><ST1:PLACE>U.S.</ST1:PLACE></ST1:COUNTRY-REGION>, but only between:<LI type=i>Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the <ST1:COUNTRY-REGION><ST1:PLACE>U.S.</ST1:PLACE></ST1:COUNTRY-REGION>or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
   
2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
   
3. Carrier cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D.
   
4. Upon presenting the goods for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to Carrier is required to notify Carrier that the shipment contains a firearm. The outside of the package(s) must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package(s) contains a firearm.
   
5. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
   
6. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
   
7. Carrier will transport small-arms ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Hazardous Materials section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as hazardous materials. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
   

FedEx Express policy

1. Firearms

   
   

   A. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun

   
   Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
   1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors;
   law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and
   law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political
   subdivisions thereof; or
   2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed
   importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

   
   

   B. If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult

   
   Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your
   shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments
   are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.

   
   

   C. Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot

   
   ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express
   Drop Box.

   
   

   D. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to

   
   FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm.
   The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the
   package contains a firearm.

   
   

   E. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.

   
   

   F. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government

   
   regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol,
   Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.

   
   

   G. FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with

   
   local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide.
   Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You

   
   agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package
   
   

Edited November 10, 2009 by canynracer

[Guest logicprevails]

UPS hub and firearms....lots of interesting anecdotal history here. I worked in the Whites Creek Hub for about 7 years back in the 80's. I know the regs have changed since then, but handguns used to 'walk' out of the building frequently. I knew of several employees who were fired for theft of firearms back when they were shipped ground. One sorter actually kept overlabels in his pocket and when he saw a firearm on the sort aisle, he would 'ship' them to his house. That worked on about 50 or so guns until he was delivered a shipment by an ATF agent dressed in UPS brown. Once we found 2 M16s that had serials removed. Back then, everything went to Atlanta to the overgoods collection site. I'm sure they notified the ATF on that one, too. Hell, we even found a horse head once.

[macville]

UPS hub and firearms....lots of interesting anecdotal history here. I worked in the Whites Creek Hub for about 7 years back in the 80's. I know the regs have changed since then, but handguns used to 'walk' out of the building frequently. I knew of several employees who were fired for theft of firearms back when they were shipped ground. One sorter actually kept overlabels in his pocket and when he saw a firearm on the sort aisle, he would 'ship' them to his house. That worked on about 50 or so guns until he was delivered a shipment by an ATF agent dressed in UPS brown. Once we found 2 M16s that had serials removed. Back then, everything went to Atlanta to the overgoods collection site. I'm sure they notified the ATF on that one, too. Hell, we even found a horse head once.

How were the employees finding out that the boxes held firearms? Seems like a sealed box with nothing on it that says "firearm" should be hard to guess. The only thing that might hint at a firearm is if it's going to a gun maker or FFL that has the word "gun" in the shipping address (such as "Buds Guns" or "SIG Firearms")

Matthew