Accidental Discharge of XD45

[SpartaTN]

A buddy of mine had a negligent discharge of a Springfield XD 45 today inside his home. Luckily nobody injured and almost no property damage. He asked me to come over and help him walk through what happened and how to prevent it in the future. The ND occurred as he was checking his carry weapon to see if one was in the chamber by racking the slide. The XD45 requires the grip safety to be engaged before the slide can be racked. While he was gripping it, the gun evidently slipped and his reaction was to squeeze, putting one through his floor. My question to this forum would be, why require the grip safety to be engaged before the slide can be racked? What reason could there be to require the only physical safety on the gun to be deactivated before you can rack the slide?

EDIT: Changed all of the Accidental Discharge language to Negligent Discharge, as it should have been in the first place. Moderator please close the thread.

Also, for anybody who is wondering, no, the word "buddy" isn't a substitute for the word "I" or "me." It truly happened to a friend who's not a member of this board. He was profoundly affected by it and wanted to make sure it didn't happen again. It's certainly not the firearm's fault, but the grip safety locking the slide seemed a little unnecessary. Thanks again for all input.

Edited November 9, 2009 by SpartaTN
Renaming Title, No such thing as an AD.

[Photoguy67]

On the xd, if you have a round in the chamber you can run your finger along the top of the slide and the extractor will be raised insuring a round is chambered. The firing pin protruding is only an indicator that the weapon is cocked. I don't know what is up with his pistol, but I just checked mine and I can rack the slide without engaging the grip safety. Hope this helps.

Billy

Edited November 9, 2009 by Photoguy67

[Oh Shoot]

A buddy of mine had an accidental discharge of a Springfield XD 45 today inside his home. Luckily nobody injured and almost no property damage. He asked me to come over and help him walk through what happened and how to prevent it in the future. The AD occurred as he was checking his carry weapon to see if one was in the chamber by racking the slide. The XD45 requires the grip safety to be engaged before the slide can be racked. While he was gripping it, the gun evidently slipped and his reaction was to squeeze, putting one through his floor. My question to this forum would be, why require the grip safety to be engaged before the slide can be racked? What reason could there be to require the only physical safety on the gun to be deactivated before you can check the chamber? I realize the firing pin retracts to give a visible check on whether there's a round in the chamber, but a visible check is a pretty important step as well IMHO.

The real question to ask is why was his finger on the trigger during any part of the operation? The XD is no different in this regard than any other weapon when racking. It takes NO force on the grip safety to activate it.

(incidentally, the firing pin "retracting", I guess you mean indicator sticking out the back, merely shows weapon is cocked - the loaded chamber indicator is up on top of weapon. You can also see edge of shell in chamber by looking from the side.)

- OS

[Guest grimel]

First, it isn't the only physical safety, the trigger lever had to be grabbed.

Second, keeping the finger out of the trigger guard keeps the boom from happening.

Third keeping a grip on the gun while operating the slide stops the slipping.

Fourth, why? Well, my 4 yr old grandson can manage to operate the slide on my non-XD autos, but, he can't manage the XD grip safety and slide.

Fifth, the firing pin protruding out the back only tells you the gun is cocked. The little lever on the top of the slide at the rear of the chamber tells you it's loaded.

[Steelharp]

This isn't even possible. Sure it wasn't a Glock?

[Guest grimel]

On the xd, if you have a round in the chamber you can run your finger along the top of the slide and the extractor will be raised insuring a round is chambered. The firing pin protruding is only an indicator that the weapon is cocked. I don't know what is up with his pistol, but I just checked mine and I can rack the slide without engaging the grip safety. Hope this helps.

Billy

Try it again. If you can retract the slide on your XD without engaging the grip safety your XD is broken.

[TripleDigitRide]

There is no reason to "rack the slide" on an XD when trying to see if there is one in the chamber.

A loaded chamber indicator pivots up on top of the slide when a round is in the chamber being both visual and tactile.

An indicator protrudes from the rear of the slide when the striker is cocked.

**Edit: What they said. Sorry, I walked away from the computer for a minute before finishing my post.

[Garufa]

The real question to ask is why was his finger on the trigger during any part of the operation?

There's your answer.

Safety systems are disengaged when your booger-hook is on the trigger!

Edited November 9, 2009 by Garufa
spelling

[Oh Shoot]

Try it again. If you can retract the slide on your XD without engaging the grip safety your XD is broken.

Correct.

It's so natural to engage the grip safety, one doesn't really even notice you're doing it.

Grab the grip well below the safety and try to rack it.

- OS

[SpartaTN]

As all of you point out, guns don't go off without the trigger getting pulled. His finger didn't start out inside the trigger guard. As the gun slipped, his finger slipped as well. Bad series of events, but the gun was pointed in a safe direction so not much harm done.

The main question is, why the grip safety for racking the slide? I can understand the presence of the grip safety for disabling the trigger. I just can't understand why you would want to prevent the slide from being racked without the grip safety being engaged.

[Guest grimel]

The main question is, why the grip safety for racking the slide? I can understand the presence of the grip safety for disabling the trigger. I just can't understand why you would want to prevent the slide from being racked without the grip safety being engaged.

I gave an answer for that, not that it had anything to do with the ND. If you don't like the feature buy a Glock. Then given the same series of events he could have still blown a hole in the floor. Sloppy gun handling results in ND's.

[SpartaTN]

I gave an answer for that, not that it had anything to do with the ND. If you don't like the feature buy a Glock. Then given the same series of events he could have still blown a hole in the floor. Sloppy gun handling results in ND's.

That's kind of the conclusion I came to - didn't really see the point in the grip safety. It doesn't make the gun much safer and it's kind of a pain if you want to grip the gun lower while racking the slide. I own a couple of Glocks and am familiar with their operation. I got to my buddy's house & went to check the gun and was unable to rack the slide with a firm grip lower on the handle. Kind of surprised me and took a few minutes to figure it out.

[Guest CK1]

I also don't get the xd's grip safety... If it disengages a drop safety/firing pin block why are their triggers not as good as glock's or m&p's, they should be better, and if it's just an added layer to safe the trigger, wouldn't being able to leave the safety engaged while operating the slide actually be safer?

[Guest Muttling]

A safer op for checking the chamber is to drop the magazine and rack the slide to empty the weapon. Put the round back into the magazine and reload. Trying to partially open the chamber is asking for problems.

Also, make certain that the weapon is pointed in a safe direction anytime you cycle the action.

On a final note, my training has always been that there is no such thing as an accidental discharge of a weapon. You have intentional discharges and negligent discharges. When I was working as a contractor in Iraq, a negligent discharge (like the one you describe) was an automatic termination of your employment.

[Guest CK1]

Found an article on how the xd grip safety works... Just an added trigger safety since the striker is fully cocked by the slide and has nothing to do with the firing pin safety which is separate and is deactivated by the trigger pull...

Doesn't make much sense to me, kinda pointless when the striker being fully cocked doesn't really give you anything as far as better trigger or whatever.

Now if that grip safety disengaged the FPS for a cleaner/better trigger I could see the point...

Edited November 9, 2009 by CK1

[Hotshot]

1. ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.

2. ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.

3. ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.

NRA Gun Safety Rules

[Guest Ae-35]

Poor gun handling, just no excuse. I've owned XD's, for tupperware the're ok, trigger sucks, as on most factory tupperware, you could tell your friend what I told my wife, look at the trigger, if it's "forward" it's cocked, there can be a round in the chamber or not, but if it's "back" there can't be a round in the chamber. KEEP it that way!! All you have to do is look at it. ME I never keep a round in the chamber of any gun that doesn't have a manual safety unless I'm wareing it!!! That's just my way, and always works for us. My wife keeps the G 19 with mounted light on her side of the bed headboard, it don't take a split second to grab it an jack a round in. Everyone should work out there own manual of arms for safe gun handling an STICK to it. There are no such thing as AD's ONLY ND's !!! My opinions are only mine, and I respect anyone's right to disagree, ONCE at age 24 I had an ND, no one or anything hurt , but my pride. I vowed then an there not to let it happen again, really shook me up , I'd been handling guns an shoot'n since I was 13. Hasn't happened to me since, last time I saw it was 84, fellow LEO starting his shift, holstered his 38 in the locker room, finger on the trigger , BOOM !!! I was unlaceing my boots RIGHT beside him. RINGING in my right ear for a week!! NOT FUN!!

[Kegger]

I don't know about your friend, but when I perform a press check on any handgun, I have a full firing grip.

Muscle memory, that way you never mis-grip your weapon. Practice it, and the whole grip safety thing becomes a non-issue.

[Dropkick Murphy]

Like some of the others have mentioned. My 3 year old Son can move the slide back and forth if I hold the grip safety. If I do not hold the grip safety he can not. I rather like the grip safety.

We take all the precautions necessary to keep our weapons out of the kids hands, one more thing can't hurt. Especially if I can't even feel it when I shoot.

Your buddy can get a Glock, but the same thing would have happened.

Also, I'm not trying to make you or your buddy feel bad, but don't justify what happened by calling it an Accidental Discharge. He should take responsibility and start calling it what it really is, a negligent discharge.

Again, I'm not trying to get your buddy down, but I think it will help him stay safer in the future once he understands that a gun will not go boom on it's own.

[SpartaTN]

Thanks for all the responses. He admitted it was completely his mistake, but it still shook him and his wife up pretty well, as it should. Every time he's handled a firearm around me, he's been pretty safe. He learned a pretty valuable lesson though about handling a gun with one in the pipe inside his home.

I agree with AE - we keep a G21 loaded with a full clip but nothing in the pipe for home protection. I made that recommendation to him. If you've got enough time to grab your gun when something goes bump, you've got enough time to rack the slide.

My main purpose for starting the thread was to ask about the grip safety locking up the slide. Seems like with most opinions on safeties there are arguments on both sides. It'll probably keep me from getting an XD though.

Moderator, please close the thread. I believe this dead horse is sufficiently beaten.

[Guest Arko]

Thanks for all the responses. He admitted it was completely his mistake, but it still shook him and his wife up pretty well, as it should. Every time he's handled a firearm around me, he's been pretty safe. He learned a pretty valuable lesson though about handling a gun with one in the pipe inside his home.

I agree with AE - we keep a G21 loaded with a full clip but nothing in the pipe for home protection. I made that recommendation to him. If you've got enough time to grab your gun when something goes bump, you've got enough time to rack the slide.

My main purpose for starting the thread was to ask about the grip safety locking up the slide. Seems like with most opinions on safeties there are arguments on both sides. It'll probably keep me from getting an XD though.

Moderator, please close the thread. I believe this dead horse is sufficiently beaten.

I'm sure it DID shake up his wife. ND's like this can create anti-gun spouses. luckily it wasn't worse.

There is no excuse for poor trigger discipline. Looking for functional explanations AFTER a ND is also poor planning/handling. We have an absolute responsibility to understand how, when and why our guns will go bang, and what the manual controls and safeties do. If there is a question it's time for more training, and more research.

"I agree with AE - we keep a G21 loaded with a full clip but nothing in the pipe for home protection. I made that recommendation to him. If you've got enough time to grab your gun when something goes bump, you've got enough time to rack the slide."

That whole point could be the subject of a separate debate, and argument. Do as you wish there, but I prefer my gun to be functionally ready at all times. And BTW..it's a magazine, not a clip. You'll find that's a pet peeve of many here.

Now the horse is beaten. But I wouldn't bet on it being closed.

[Rock.45]

Look it sometimes happens to the best of us , I had a slam fire some years ago on a 1911 Colt . It is ALWAYS best to reload or check for chambered round outside in a safe direction . If you can't do that because of neighbors , a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand, oil dry or cat litter will work cover the top of the bucket with the lid. Clear , reload or check over the bucket. Safety is #1 finger away from the trigger, point in a safe direction . Bad things do happen to safe people. Many Police ,security and jails have clearing pits, buckets or boxes. Please be safe it can happen to the best of us. and truth be known its happened to a lot more folks out here than anyone knows .Some of us have been around firearms along time , I sure there are a few stores that could be told. So don't be to hard on you friend we should learn from others mistakes Be Safe.

[Fallguy]

OP states his question has been answered, so thread will be closed.