ETSU Students Protest For Campus Carry

[Tim Nunan]

My wife who is a student at ETSU got this email this morning:

From: ETSU Announcements [mailto:ANNOUNCEMENTS@MAIL.ETSU.EDU]

Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 8:10 AM

To: STUDENTS@LISTSERV.ETSU.EDU

Subject: Important Announcement from Student Affairs

Faculty, Staff, and Students:

On Monday, October 22nd the ETSU Marksmanship Club will be participating in the Empty Holster Protest. The protest is part of an event that is occurring on campuses across the country during this time. Participating individuals may be wearing empty firearm holsters on the campus as they go about their daily activities.

[Marswolf]

I thought the holster carry was all week.

[SkWaShDeM]

I thought the holster carry was all week.

It is all week.

[dralarms]

Hey, Skwashdem,

Going to be up in your area the first part of Dec. Any good gun stores in your area?

[SkWaShDeM]

Hey, Skwashdem,

Going to be up in your area the first part of Dec. Any good gun stores in your area?

Yes. Crowders & Mahoney's are both good window shopping stores. Byrd's has some nice stuff too. If you're willing to explore the boonies of East TN, there's some other places within 20 miles or so that are good too.

[jgrauman]

Yes. Crowders & Mahoney's are both good window shopping stores. Byrd's has some nice stuff too. If you're willing to explore the boonies of East TN, there's some other places within 20 miles or so that are good too.

window shopping yes, i wouldn't give my money to crowders if it was the last place on earth to buy a gun. i'm an ETSU alum and would love to join in on this demonstration, wish we would have put this together while i was there

[SkWaShDeM]

Oh I'll be wearing a visible holster all week. Usually I carry IWB on days I have class so I don't have to deal with a freaked out left-wing certified lunatic instructor again...

As for not giving money to Crowders, I'm right there with you preaching to the choir. I'll give you the list of things that are worth doing there though:

1.) Window shopping

2.) Fondling the Class 3 toys

3.) Flirting with the hot blonde girl behind the counter who packs a 1911 on her hip and shoots skeet on the weekends.

4.) See #3, with emphasis.

[Marswolf]

window shopping yes, i wouldn't give my money to crowders if it was the last place on earth to buy a gun.

I've actually bought several guns from Crowder. But you have to give him the money and walk out with the gun. But I agree, you have to be careful and never-never give him any money without walking out with your purchase.

There are a bunch of shops in the Tri-Cities. You could easily spend a day or more hitting all of them. And as skwashdem says, some are in the boonies.

[towerclimber37]

SNIPPED FOR BREVITY

“There’s a potential to create disturbance on the campus,†he said. “We have individuals coming in and out of campus. It’s a possibility that they could be disturbed by someone in a holster. They would not know if they have a firearm, and that could create a disruption.â€

wow...you'd think that even a teacher could figure this one out... empty holster= no firearm.

what kind of idiots do we have teaching our kids these days?????

Len, don't get your knickers in a twist..I'm sure you know that an empty holster = no firearm...its the REST of those folks I worry about.

[Marswolf]

The protest at ETSU got some good TV coverage. This being ETSU Homecoming week didn't hurt.

BTW, how in hell do you have a decent homecoming week without a ball game to attend? ETSU killed off football several years ago.

[SkWaShDeM]

BTW, how in hell do you have a decent homecoming week without a ball game to attend? ETSU killed off football several years ago.

Simple. You don't. You have a crappy concert a week or two later on a Wednesday night in the Dome where at most 20-30% of the student body will show up to possibly enjoy what we all contributed $16 per semester to fund.

This semester's concert is "The All-American Rejects", and I haven't heard how much they're gouging the school for to play, but I'm sure it's no worse than the Ludacris concert two years ago.

[Marswolf]

I checked their website. They don't seem to know they have any concerts planned.

[SkWaShDeM]

http://www.etsu.edu/sga/default.htm

Scroll down to the bottom. SGA handles the concerts. Concert tickets are only available to students. Mortals, alumni, and other lifeforms not permitted except as the guest of a student who's attending and could scrounge enough tickets.

[Guest db99wj]

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2007/10/23/osuguns.ART_ART_10-23-07_B3_2888QPS.html?sid=101

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2007/10/23/students_protest_campus_gun_ba.aspx

http://www.ocolly.com/2007/10/22/students-protest-ban-of-campus-concealed-carry/

A few recent articles from around our nation.

[waynesan]

Good research db99. Interesting reading.

[Guest Len]

Interesting thread, much of it makes me shake my head and pound my fist. I'm about to advocate "empty holster carry day" on my campus. I have a question for the group:

Many times we accuse the criminals in society of being stupid. We also often argue that criminals "know the law" and thus target people at various "gun-free zones" because they know they are easy pickings.

Are criminals stupid or do they know the law? Or both? Or neither. Or is one or the other a generalization without validity? I have yet to see any evidence that crime goes up in "gun free zones" or that the "criminal lobby" is out there fighting for more such places so they can ply their trade.

Make no mistake, I do not advocate "gun free zones" as crime reduction measures (or for anything else), but I'm just wondering. Anyone have any data they can throw at me?

I will make this assertion: Many crimes are "crimes of passion" or otherwise spur-of-the-moment. Its doubtful that some arcane law declaring no guns within 1000 feet of a church or school or whatever would stop such crimes from happening.

[Marswolf]

I've thought the same thing Len. I'm not sure that most criminals focus on preying in gun free zones. I think this is a questionable assertion.

The reason to carry a gun is not to scare off criminals who might think you are packing. The purpose is to protect yourself if you are attacked or are about to be attacked.

I suspect that the idea that having more concealed handgun carriers prevents attacks is probably more imagination than reason unless someone is thinking about robbing a gun club meeting or some place that has a likelihood of a high concentration of packers. To put it another way, I haven't seen any evidence that you are more likely to be attacked in a posted mall than in one that is not posted.

But the inability to protect yourself in a posted mall is a good reason to stay away from such places.

[saintsfanbrian]

For the cotton picking last time. Criminals do not obey laws. Regardless of whether or not it is legal to carry a firearm some where, a criminal is going to do it in order to commit the crime they wish.

If you were hell bent on tearing up a school with a rifle, you are going to do it. Intent on spray painting the side of a building, you are going to do it. Intent on smoking a joint or snorting some coke, you are going to do it. No LAW is going to stop this behavior. The only thing we can rely on is individuals with the stones to stand up for what is right and stop you. The police won't be able to stop you unless they have prior knowledge or your intent. They will only be there to write up the report and help clean up the mess.

So carry if you feel you must where you feel you must, just remember that by doing so, you may in fact be becoming a criminal.

[towerclimber37]

I've often thought that a good citizen is one who's willing to make personal sacrifices in order to accommodate his fellow humans, by obeying laws that do not suit him. This has nothing to do with religious upbringing..but such upbringing DOES affect his actions to the benefit (usually) of society as a whole.

That said, I cannot support and will not support a society that ignores a persons' right to protect themselves. This goes against common sense...and I'm pretty sure that in a court of law, unless you have the worst defense lawyer in the world, the jury would exonerate you for stopping another Va. Tech massacre. then again..I'm an optimist and you know what they say...

"you have to kill a pessimist, an optimist will usually kill himself."

[Guest Len]

Speaking of which, do we have any TGO representatives that would like to be a part of a panel discussion about concealed carry on campuses or, I guess, concealed carry in general?

Thanks, guys.

TFA might really be who you are looking for. Contact John Harris at TFA to see if he is free. As for TGO, Tungsten is the boss. Ask him if he could suggest anyone who could go as an "official" TGO rep. I'm glad to hear Vandy is doing this. Keep us posted on the details. I work at Vol State and would love to attend, might help me get something similiar started on my campus.

[DaveTN]

For the cotton picking last time. Criminals do not obey laws.

If you were hell bent on tearing up a school with a rifle, you are going to do it.

Absolutely. And the only thing that will stop a bunch of kids getting killed is if someone is there with a gun when the shooting starts and has the ability to stop the threat.

Calling 911 and waiting for someone with a gun to show up won’t work.

[Guest tlooney]

I thought the United States Constitution protected the rights of individuals to assemble peacefully. OOPS it is supposed to protect other rights too. I guess the school has more authority than We The People.