long gun for handgun fan

[JReedEsq]

Hey guys. I'm new to the forum and I have a question I'd like to some opinions on. In my line of work I come into contact with quite a few criminals as well as folks with signficant substance abuse and anger management problems. Being concerned about personal safety, I recently purchase my first gun, I've been shooting regularly at a local range and I have already signed up for an HCP class soon.

I've got a 9mm (Glock 19) pistol but I've thought about getting another weapon specifically for home defense. Many folks believe a 12 gauge shotgun is the ideal home defense weapon but I'm starting to feel pretty comfortable with my Glock so I'm not sure it would be a good idea to have to rely on a shotgun for HD when I've already enjoying (and becoming more confident with( my pistol.

My thoughts against getting any shotgun/long gun are as follows:

1. I have no interest in hunting.

2. I think AR-15's are cool but they aren't recommended for HD and the ammo might be expensive if I shot often.

3. I could get a HD hand gun instead, (probably Glock 17) with hollowpoint 9mm and maybe a tac-light. It would be so similar to my carry-weapon that it wouldn't require any extra practice.

4. I won't have to buy a bigger safe. (this is important since I have a small child)

My thoughts in favor of getting a long gun are:

1. It might be easier for my wife to shoot

2. Everyone says they are better for HD

As a long gun for HD, I would consider:

1. A 12 or 20 gauge mossberg pump-action shotgun

2. A Kel-Tec Sub 2000 because it should be extremely easy for my wife to shoot and it will take my Glock mags.

My wife has spent very little time around guns and is a very small person 5'3" 115 pounds. That's why I might be more inclined to go 20g than 12g. My wife and I really enjoy camping and hiking and if I don't get a long gun for HD my 2nd gun might get a larger caliber handgun for occasional backwoods open carry. This might be a large revolver or a 10mm auto.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom guys and please chime in with votes for what will be my 2nd gun (first being the G19 which I really like).

Edited October 29, 2009 by JReedEsq

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

If there is a HD situation at my house, I will have my AR-15 and clear the house while my wife waits at the fallback point with a mossberg 500A with buckshot and slugs in a sidesaddle. I get them out of the safe every evening and put them back every morning. I have my Kahr PM9 with me at all times.

I didn't start taking HD seriously until I had a wife, then kids.

So I guess what I am saying is get a bigger safe. :-)

EDIT: Also, as you can see from my signature pic, I keep a glock 17 with 33rd mag in the soap dish of my shower. (j/k)

My mossy has a knoxx specops adjustable recoil reducing stock on it with a pistol grip and a surefire foregrip with high intensity LED lamp. It is easy for my wife to shoot even magnum rounds with it. It looks like this:

http://www.cabelas.com/p-0012785224733a.shtml

Edited October 29, 2009 by TurboniumOxide

[JReedEsq]

I didn't think about HD seriously until this past year. I have a wife and a child and so the old "run out the back door and let them take my stuff" is just not an option anymore. My wife has never fired a gun and until recently didn't want me to have them either. She changed her mind when I had an unreasonable client (who was stalking other people) making veiled threats against me. I withdrew as his lawyer. Fortunately, he's already fired his next lawyer and I think I'm pretty far down his "list" so-to-speak. Anyway, I'm really thinking about HD now. I'd like to get a security system but I'm not sure what I can do without a land-line phone. We don't have a land-line phone because a friend who works for the phone co has told me it's possible for people to get your info even with an unlisted #.

Anyone know if their are alarm options w/o a traditional phone?

You aren't concered with overpenetration with the AR?

[LA_357SIG]

I've got a 9mm (Glock 19) pistol (good choice. I have one too) but I've thought about getting another weapon specifically for home defense. Many folks believe a 12 gauge shotgun is the ideal home defense weapon It is. but I'm starting to feel pretty comfortable with my Glock so I'm not sure it would be a good idea to have to rely on a shotgun for HD when I've already enjoying (and becoming more confident with( my pistol.

My thoughts against getting any shotgun/long gun are as follows:

1. I have no interest in hunting. You never know what the future holds.

2. I think AR-15's are cool but they aren't recommended for HD (they are) and the ammo might be expensive if I shot often. Get a .22lr dedicated upper from Tactical solutions or Spikes tactical. Drop in conversions suck.

3. I could get a HD hand gun instead, (probably Glock 17) with hollowpoint 9mm and maybe a tac-light. It would be so similar to my carry-weapon that it wouldn't require any extra practice. HD handgun = .45ACP or 357MAG IMO

4. I won't have to buy a bigger safe. (this is important since I have a small child) You can get a wall mounted lockable rack.

My thoughts in favor of getting a long gun are:

1. It might be easier for my wife to shoot

2. Everyone says they are better for HD

As a long gun for HD, I would consider:

1. A 12 or 20 gauge mossberg pump-action shotgun - Winner [/thread]

2. A Kel-Tec Sub 2000 because it should be extremely easy for my wife to shoot and it will take my Glock mags. There are better options. Berretta CX4 and Hi-point Carbine come to mind. Pistol caliber AR-15's have been refined now where most of the kinks have been worked out. Lonewolf dist. has come out with a AR15 lower that takes Glock magazines.

My wife liked my Yugo M70AB2 underfolder (AK-47) and found it manageable to shoot. If I would have kept it I would have probanly put a Larue Irondot or Micro Aimpoint to assist in aiming in low light. Chicks dig AK's.

Now she likes my AR15 w/ TacSol .22lr upper. I wouldnt let her use it for HD, but she has her own (revolver) S&W 327NG in .357MAG. If she needs the Mossberg she knows how to get to it.

[JReedEsq]

So it sounds like the first vote is:

"buy a bigger safe and a shotgun"

or maybe it's "buy everything" since he also has a G17. The G17 might be a good house and occasional open carry gun since I really like my G19 and find it easy to shoot.

Remember I'm looking for what I should buy next; not necessarily at the exclusion of everything else; just next.

More votes...

[LA_357SIG]

You aren't concered with overpenetration with the AR?

The Box O' Truth #1 - The Original Box O' Truth - Page 1

The whole site is worth checking out.

[dats82]

One thing you might should remember is that often in an HD situation, you do not have anywhere to retreat to. The way I think about my carry weapon is that it is a tool for me to remove myself from the current situation. I am not interested in staying and fighting, I am just looking to get the hell out. However, with HD, I am not looking to go anywhere. If a perp is in my bedroom or blocking the exit from the house, you have to be prepared to stay and fight with hopes that the perp will be the one who will be looking to leave. With that said, I am looking for something that hits very hard, can hold many rds, is easy to reload and operate, and can be effectively used with sleepy in the eyes.

I am not an expert by anymeans, but I do not believe there is one ideal weapon for all of this. As with carry guns, what matters is what you will feel most comfortable with. For me, I have a Ruger 345 on the night stand (also my carry gun), a short 870 super mag near the bed, and extra ammo for both. I am also poor, so I do not have any tactical lights and all that cool stuff. I do, however, keep my phone and flashlight on the night stand with the 45. Also remember HD other than guns. You should not have to sleep with a gun under your pillow or anything like that. Remember to secure your position such that you will have time to be fully awake and react to a situation before it is in your face or in your bedroom.

Edited October 29, 2009 by dats82

[LA_357SIG]

When it was just me in my condo I had a G17, Mossberg 508A, G32 (CCW) and a Kimber 1911 hid in the cavities of a fiberglass garden tub. But when I got married my wife said she would buy me a rifle for Christmas if I got a safe. Well I got a safe and 4 years later I need a bigger one.

Get A Bigger Safe. As a matter of fact get the biggest one you can afford now, cause it will get crowded very quickly.

[JReedEsq]

"Pistol caliber AR-15's have been refined now where most of the kinks have been worked out. Lonewolf dist. has come out with a AR15 lower that takes Glock magazines."

So I could build an AR-15 that would take Glock mags and shoot cheap and readily available 9mm? I bet it would be easy to shoot and have no recoil.

What would be ballpark price?

[LA_357SIG]

Lone Wolf Distributors - Product Detail $349

Rock River Arms: 9mm CAR Upper Half $500

So that's a LWD complete lower and a Rock River Complete A3 upper. Looking @ $849 before tax, shipping, transfer and TICS.

[Guest JHatmaker]

If you are truely wanting a dedicated HD "rifle", get a shotgun. Better for HD than your Glock, no matter how good you are with it.

1) Sometimes just the sound of a shotgun being pumped (non semi-auto) will scare away an intruder.

2) You may be accurate with your Glock in a range at 3:30pm in the afternoon; but what about at 3:30am when you've just been awoken to an intruder and you have 1000 things going through your head. With a shotgun, point and shoot; you'll hit the intruder as long as you're facing him.

3) A shotgun blast has a lot less of a chance of going through walls, possibly hitting your wife/children. A bullet from a handgun / AR on the other hand could pentrate a wall under some circumstances, hollow-point or not.

That's my recommendation.

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

You need to think tactically, and watch all the vids on Box-O-Truth and keep in mind that most anything you shoot in a house is going to pass through several rooms.

I had a negligent discharge once decades ago with a 22LR that passed through 3 rooms and was stopped only by the brick on the outside of the house.

Get a good weapon mounted light.

[JReedEsq]

"Also remember HD other than guns. You should not have to sleep with a gun under your pillow or anything like that. Remember to secure your position such that you will have time to be fully awake and react to a situation before it is in your face or in your bedroom. "

That's why I'm also researching alarms. I have my G19 in a quick access safe 1 step from my bed it's loaded and the safe is programmed so that I can press 3 buttons and it's out. I've practiced this many times. We're also on the 2nd floor and there is a very loud (but not mean) dog downstairs as well as 2 baby gates on our steps that make a lot of noise. Basically my plan is the wife goes to my sons room with a cell-phone and I make sure no one gets upstairs. Our dog is really loud but I'm still checking into alarms. My toddler age son gets into everything... his favorite place to play is in my closet and my nightstand area so leaving something out is not an option.

One good thing is our master BR has his and hers walk-in closets and I could get a pretty big safe and still have it concealed only a few feet from my bed.

Edited October 29, 2009 by JReedEsq

[LA_357SIG]

2) With a shotgun, point and shoot; you'll hit the intruder as long as you're facing him.

3) A shotgun blast has a lot less of a chance of going through walls, possibly hitting your wife/children. A bullet from a handgun / AR on the other hand could pentrate a wall under some circumstances, hollow-point or not.

That's my recommendation

The Box O' Truth #14 - Rifles, Shotguns, and Walls - Page 4

Edited October 29, 2009 by LA_357SIG

[JReedEsq]

Lone Wolf Distributors - Product Detail $349

Rock River Arms: 9mm CAR Upper Half $500

So that's a LWD complete lower and a Rock River Complete A3 upper. Looking @ $849 before tax, shipping, transfer and TICS.

That's more than most shotguns but still not that bad. Is the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 not worth considering?

[LA_357SIG]

I wouldn't waste my money on the Keltec 2000. Just personal preference. Now the Keltec SU-16A, thats what I'd be checking out.

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/su16a.htm

Edited October 29, 2009 by LA_357SIG
spelling

[JeffL]

If you are truely wanting a dedicated HD "rifle", get a shotgun. Better for HD than your Glock, no matter how good you are with it.

1) Sometimes just the sound of a shotgun being pumped (non semi-auto) will scare away an intruder. - Don't count on it.

2) You may be accurate with your Glock in a range at 3:30pm in the afternoon; but what about at 3:30am when you've just been awoken to an intruder and you have 1000 things going through your head. With a shotgun, point and shoot; you'll hit the intruder as long as you're facing him. - Buckshot at home defense ranges probably won't spread much more than the size of a fist.

3) A shotgun blast has a lot less of a chance of going through walls, possibly hitting your wife/children. A bullet from a handgun / AR on the other hand could pentrate a wall under some circumstances, hollow-point or not. - If it won't penetrate a wall it won't penetrate a bad guy.

That's my recommendation.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on all points. I keep my AR handy for home defense.

[Guest JHatmaker]

LA 357SIG - Can't view that site at work, but I assume it says something about how shotguns can go through walls...

I never said they couldn't, of course if you're standing point-blank at a wall, yeah, the shotgun will blast a hole right through it. But if your standing a good distance away, a 9mm bullet has a better chance of penetrating a wall (dry-wall/wall-board, insulation, etc) than a shotgun blast with small pellets.

As for your comment about facing someone with a shotgun and being able to hit them, you've got to take into consideration a little common sense. Obviously if you're looking an intruder and pointing the shotgun at the ceiling, you're not going to hit him. But with a shotgun, pointing in the general area at someones face from 10 feet out; they're gonna get...

Personally, I would waste my money on a pistol caliber upper, but to each his own.

Edited October 29, 2009 by JHatmaker

[Guest JHatmaker]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on all points. I keep my AR handy for home defense.

There are numerous variables that come into play; distances, angles, etc. Also, I don't want to penetrate the intruder, I want the projectile to stay in them once it gets through the first layer. Also, I'd gladly take a fist size spread-range to a dime sized hole. Not knocking AR's, have several, but in close quarter situations, I don't think it'd be ideal.

We'll have to all agree to disagree then. If I had the option of a shotgun or an AR, I'm going with a shotgun.

Edited October 29, 2009 by JHatmaker

[Guest jimdigriz]

That's more than most shotguns but still not that bad. Is the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 not worth considering?

At the price (~350), it's very much worth considering, and especially so since you have a Glock. I have one and like it very much. It has yet to misfire on me.

IMHO, everyone needs a rifle of some sort. You may be gaining great skill with the handgun, but it will always be easier to hit under stress with a rifle, and from far away. My house has a long corridor, which means I may have to make about a 25 yard shot if they come in via the garage-to-kitchen door. That would be child's play with a rifle, but I wouldn't be confident making that shot with a pistol.

I do like the Sub 2000, but I prefer an AK for the important work. Tough, reliable, lots of firepower, and at least as potent as what any bad guys will have. Many BGs are sporting soft body armor nowadays. 9mm and 12 gauge would be stopped by that, but not 7.62x39.

Edited October 29, 2009 by jimdigriz

[JReedEsq]

So the consensus seems to be Yes, I should get either a shotgun or a rifle b/c it will be easier to hit an intruder with when I'm nervous and/or still half asleep @ 3:00AM.

Thanks for the votes. I'm learning alot from the TGO forums.

[Guest 70below]

A shotgun definitely has the most bang for the buck.......pun intended. I think a 12ga 870 or Mossberg 500 should be a staple at any home.

I'll probably get flogged for suggesting this alternative.....but given that you have a G19 and have the mags and ammo. Olympic Arms makes a 9mm AR15 (K9-GL I believe) that takes Glock mags. I've seriously considered getting one for quite a while. They cost a bit more, but they seem very handy while glock mags are still fairly affordable and available.

[Oh Shoot]

...a 9mm bullet has a better chance of penetrating a wall (dry-wall/wall-board, insulation, etc) than a shotgun blast with small pellets....

What small pellets?

You're defending against quail and doves?

- OS

[Mike.357]

Anyone know if their are alarm options w/o a traditional phone?

You need to PM dralarms with security system questions. Thats what he does.

[Guest KarlS]

Thanks for the votes. I'm learning alot from the TGO forums.

You learn what everyone else does. You asked for just one gun choice. Wrong move here. You'll never get away with just one gun.

Shotgun. Not a thing against ar's or ak's as I have them both. Just not next to my bed. Great for clearing crowds but close range I'll take the 12 ga. We have two nightstands with 9 in one and 45 in other with 870 short barrel standing nearby. But like others have said, it's what makes you comfortable while doing the job.