Where Will The Population Flee?

[clarky07]

Um. I would look at where you live. Is it defensible? Can you stay put for a month? Can you make it there? Do you know and trust your neighbors? Will they be a boon or drain?

Up and buying a piece of land away from it all is fine. But can you get there? On foot, within a day? Can you afford to improve the land to enable SHTF survival? Will your improvements to the land bring unwanted attention?

Being on a tight budget, you have to focus on what you can do. Bang for the buck wise, would an additional piece of land, with the extra costs (taxes, up keep, etc.) be affordable, or would it be more wise to invest the time to organize your neighbors and friends into a group where you can have a bug out location, where you have permission to go, without buying it? Would it be more wise to get your neighborhood organized, so it can rely on itself in a SHTF situation?

I meant getting land for a new house instead of the current place, not in addition to. Currently I live in a townhouse in the suburbs right next to a major interstate. Not exactly ideal.

[Guest EB31]

I'm good right where I'm at. In fact, we moved here specifically because of some of the scenerios that could play out in the coming days/months/years. Defensible shelter? Check. Self sustaining food/water supply? Check. Livestock? Check. Weapons? Check. And I've only been here a little over a month....and still adding to preparation.

I will add. Don't be fooled. Some of the more extreme scenerios that you fear will come to pass sooner than anyone thinks. Prepare.

[Guest SUNTZU]

I'm good right where I'm at. In fact, we moved here specifically because of some of the scenerios that could play out in the coming days/months/years. Defensible shelter? Check. Self sustaining food/water supply? Check. Livestock? Check. Weapons? Check. And I've only been here a little over a month....and still adding to preparation.

I will add. Don't be fooled. Some of the more extreme scenerios that you fear will come to pass sooner than anyone thinks. Prepare.

LMAO...This....is.....SPARTA!!!!

[Guest HvyMtl]

Ok, buying a piece of land to relocate is a great idea. Make sure it is close enough to get where you need to in every day life, but off the beaten path enough not to have unwanted visitors during a SHTF (hard balance to get...) Make sure it is defensible, has resources benefiting staying in place, etc.

One thing I think we all need to check is this: Where are the utilities?

Death toll in massive Calif. blaze likely to rise - Yahoo! News

Gas mains, power lines, rail lines etc. are another avenue of access, and, obviously, a hazard.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Maybe a dumb comment-- Things may be different nowadays. I noticed this 30 years ago and things do change. Ain't tryin to be elitist in the comments, or say anything bad about folks.

Moving out into the country in TN-- At least in SE TN, but it is probably similar many places in Appalachia at least. It would be very important to make as friendly relations and get to know the neighbors as good as possible. Really work on that.

The folks who have lived out in some of those areas have been there a long time, and their children will probably be there a long time after you are gone. They can be clannish about new comers. The welcome into the neighborhood will not necessarily be warm, but a good old boy can usually fit in eventually. If you act like you are too good for the neighbors, or look like you are "too rich", then settling in will be difficult.

Have seen cases where city yuppies would build giant lavish mac mansions out in gods country, and some of the 'less friendly' locals would rip off the house every time the yuppies were all away at work in the city. The locals wouldn't do that to their old-time neighbors where great-great-grandads were neighbors in the same hills. Unless you were rich enough to hire full-time security, the best defense would be to make real good friends with the locals, and don't look too lavish or 'relatively prosperous'.

If you just have some land and a house or trailer that is usually unoccupied, you might visit to find the copper wire and pipe ripped out of the walls. And if SHTF, and you escape to your haven, in such a situation the neighbors might feel that they have more right to your stuff than you do.

So a move out to the country would work best if it is permanent and you work real hard to make friends with the neighbors.

[Mike.357]

you all know that the city folk think there is unlimited food and good times in the country.

I do not see any place as a good alternative.

Save some bullets.

[Moped]

You are correct sir!

[G27]

Maybe a dumb comment-- Things may be different nowadays. I noticed this 30 years ago and things do change. Ain't tryin to be elitist in the comments, or say anything bad about folks.

Moving out into the country in TN-- At least in SE TN, but it is probably similar many places in Appalachia at least. It would be very important to make as friendly relations and get to know the neighbors as good as possible. Really work on that.

The folks who have lived out in some of those areas have been there a long time, and their children will probably be there a long time after you are gone. They can be clannish about new comers. The welcome into the neighborhood will not necessarily be warm, but a good old boy can usually fit in eventually. If you act like you are too good for the neighbors, or look like you are "too rich", then settling in will be difficult.

Have seen cases where city yuppies would build giant lavish mac mansions out in gods country, and some of the 'less friendly' locals would rip off the house every time the yuppies were all away at work in the city. The locals wouldn't do that to their old-time neighbors where great-great-grandads were neighbors in the same hills. Unless you were rich enough to hire full-time security, the best defense would be to make real good friends with the locals, and don't look too lavish or 'relatively prosperous'.

If you just have some land and a house or trailer that is usually unoccupied, you might visit to find the copper wire and pipe ripped out of the walls. And if SHTF, and you escape to your haven, in such a situation the neighbors might feel that they have more right to your stuff than you do.

So a move out to the country would work best if it is permanent and you work real hard to make friends with the neighbors.

This, you literally typed what I was getting ready to.

Fleeing, unless you have to, is a bad choice, imo.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

This, you literally typed what I was getting ready to.

Fleeing, unless you have to, is a bad choice, imo.

Most folks out in the hills are good as gold, but they might not warm up instantly to strangers. And there are a certain percentage of neer'do'wells as everywhere. It seems that the neer'do'wells are more likely to rip off strangers than people they know their whole life. But I could be mistaken. Just the impression I got.

[G27]

Most folks out in the hills are good as gold, but they might not warm up instantly to strangers. And there are a certain percentage of neer'do'wells as everywhere. It seems that the neer'do'wells are more likely to rip off strangers than people they know their whole life. But I could be mistaken. Just the impression I got.

No, you're totally right - you have to invest in where you want to be. If that's in the city, suburbs, rural areas - doesn't matter. You won't make it on your own if things get bad enough, no matter what, so if you aren't willing to seriously invest in your 'bug out land', you're probably better off investing your time into where you are now...

[Desert Rat]

Living in the "Country" and having moved here 4.5 years ago from a "Big" city atmosphere I can say that Lester is right. We have a neighbor that moved out here from Knoxville a few years before I moved here and she still wants to change the area to fit her view of what country is. She sets up "counciling sessions" for those that need to come to terms with living in the country and wants to have "Group Go to the mall" events. She is still an outsider as well as some other neighbors that recently bought and built. I moved here because this is the lifestyle I wanted and it is my Bug Location. The neighbors for the most part have accepted me and maybe it is because my Great grand mother was raised 3 miles from my current home or that a bunch of my cousins are near by.

Push comes to shove out here we have livestock of various types in the neighborhood and Kitchen Gardens that can produce enough for 4 times the population in the area. We already are the BOL for some Suburb Dwellers that moved to the city for work and have vacant acreage in the area that can also become productive as it is currently regenerating from being over farmed in the earlier days.

I would recommend to buy property, leave it dormant, get to know the neighbors and socialize with them, Offer to let them grow crops or hay on your property, ask if you can do weekend gardening on their land, Just come around and talk, learn from the locals what works best for them. When you need it the property will be there for you and in a case like where I live there is room for others that are willing to do their fair share until they have their own place built on their land. My wife's daughters are slowly moving here and there is room for them to build.

[Moped]

Great post and observation Desert Rat. You will not change a community by moving in. On the other hand the community will change you. Those that don't fit are at some point likely going to be asked to move on.

It's also a good point to have a bugout location near close family. That way you have a better chance at acceptance once you show up and have a larger group dynamic to work with.

Personally, I understand what CrimsonAudio is saying about staying near to home if you are in a big city, but the fact of the matter is that food is going to be finite there and at some point the have nots are going to try and take it from the haves and the haves are going to be in the minority. Not a good situation to be in. I'd rather have a nice safe, secure location to go in case the worst happens and I'm not really sure it's where I live today. Fortunately for me, I have family just up the road about 10 miles.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

On the principle of "hope for the best but plan for the worst", S hasn't HTF so far in my lifetime, though it is of course possible. The nice thing about living in the country is that it would just be nice (if you like the country), if realities didn't get in the way. I've known some folks who lived way up on Sand Mountain or out in Hiwassee and would trek an hour to work in Chattanooga every day.

Some of the old Sand Mountain guys would run the tractor on their farm from first light, then drive in to the factory, then drive back to run the tractor again til dark. But I don't like driving that much. Wife does about a 2 mile work drive, and I work at home and hardly drive, and the old suburban house is paid for. It would be more practical to try a move to the country after retirement.

I like Desert Rat's idea about buying rural land and leaving it unimproved until it is time to move in. Alternately, maybe only improve the property with an access road and an RV pad. A road and RV pad ought not be too subject to vandalism, and one could RV in on weekends or holidays to enjoy the place and get to know the neighbors, until it is time to make a more permanent move.

Old dad finally retired 'on the outer edge' of the burbs, but he had an unfortunate first experiment back in the 1970's. Old dad grew up on a farm and he is down to earth and knows how to get along. Back in the 1970's he bought some acreage out in God's Country that had a trailer in not-bad shape. Not new, but not a wreck either. Planning on eventually moving out there. He wanted a place to ride his horses and hang out in the woods. He dug a duck pond and stocked it with ducks. Fenced off a couple of acres for the horses. He had a couple of acres in his suburban place for the horses during the week, but not much place to ride near the city.

He first figured he would rent out the trailer so there would be somebody on the property. So he had 3 tenants. Same story every time-- He would get the first month of rent, then it would take 3 or 4 months to get them evicted, then have to fix up the trailer before renting to some new deadbeat. Hey, he may have grown up on a farm, but old dad was an electronics engineer, not a real estate genius!

He would go out there regularly and feed his ducks, but the dern ducks must have been lonely. They would walk off to live with the ducks on a neighboring farm. It wasn't the neighbor's fault. Dang traitorous ducks! He tried moving em back to their own pond a couple of times, then gave up after it was clear that the ducks didn't like being lonely, or whatever.

After three deadbeat tenants, dad decided he would just leave the trailer vacant and go out and stay in the trailer every weekend. Then after awhile, one weekend he went out there and all the wire and pipe was ripped out of the walls. We surveyed the damage with amazement. It took somebody a whole lot of work to tear the trailer up that bad. Copper wasn't all that valuable back in the 1970's. Whoever did it, could have made more money for less work at any minimum wage job.

That is when dad finally decided to sell off and cut his losses on that first experiment.

Dad wouldn't have had those problems if he had actually lived on the property. Most of the neighbors seemed real nice. But remote places are easy to rip off, and neighbors are far enough away that they wouldn't be likely to see it happen.

[Desert Rat]

A suggestion! why not get acquainted with the neighbors to see if you could park a travel trailer on their property some where. I set up a location for a trailer pad with water and electricity. It took me from February to the middle of April to get the work done as I was planning to travel for a couple of years. By the time the land was set up I decided I no longer wanted to travel and set about having my house put together.

I have talked to a few people that have vacant property near and offered them the opportunity to park an RV here until they could get their place ready. The first month was traveling 30 miles each way to a camp ground where the trailer was parked.

The wiring and plumbing being stolen is common even around here and those who do that are aware of who they are targeting and when they are not around. An RV pad with water, power and septic would be alright if the power is underground and every thing is tightly locked in a block well house so it is protected from vandals.