Surrendering your Weapon to an Officer

[macville]

I agree with you JTH that if you were acting polite, then there was no reason to for him to have disarmed you. Have you tried speaking with the police chief about LEO's actions? Maybe if it's stressed that the driver who holds a valid HCP and isn't acting strange shouldn't be disarmed, then they will make sure all their officers are informed of this. Or maybe we should get the law re-written that the person carrying a firearm has to act in a threatening way (oh wait, that's basically what the law says, but they are ignoring it!)

Matthew

[Guest jth_3s]

You maybe didn't, by your actions, give him a reason to fear you. The problem may be the fact that LEOs around the country are shot from the windows of stopped vehicles. You can't always identify a nutcase by looking at him or talking to him. If I were a LEO, I would be nervous about every vehicle I approached. You knew that you were no threat but how could he be 100% sure? One way would be for him to have control of your weapon during the stop. He returned it. He didn't damage it. He didn't keep your ammo. He didn't scatch the paint on your roof. He lived to go home to his family. You didn't go to jail. I fail to see any harm done. You just didn't get your way. Did you feel that you were going to need it to defend yourself during the duration of the stop? Sometimes the path of least resistance is the truely the best way to go. It's done and there have got to be more important things in your life to expend your energy on. Relax. I'm not saying that you shouldn't stand up for your rights but pick your battles. Some things just aren't worth the aggravation.

I understand where you are coming from but "Those who sacrifice Liberty for Security deserve neither"-Ben Franklin. I had just as much reason to fear for my life as he did. Innocent people have been shot By LEOs(this is not cop bashing it is a rare fact). I dont like the Idea of giving up my liberty for his security.

[Guest jth_3s]

I agree with you JTH that if you were acting polite, then there was no reason to for him to have disarmed you. Have you tried speaking with the police chief about LEO's actions? Maybe if it's stressed that the driver who holds a valid HCP and isn't acting strange shouldn't be disarmed, then they will make sure all their officers are informed of this. Or maybe we should get the law re-written that the person carrying a firearm has to act in a threatening way (oh wait, that's basically what the law says, but they are ignoring it!)

Matthew

I thought about calling his supervisors and probably should have. The reason I didnt is because this LEO was otherwise a nice guy and we had a nice conversation on hunting lol. His supervisors are condoning this behavior and are the source of the problem. It needs to be addressed at a judicial level but it never will due to it not being worth the time and money for anyone to pursue. Next time however, I will ask him if I make him fear for his life.

[TGO David]

I understand where you are coming from but "Those who sacrifice Liberty for Security deserve neither"-Ben Franklin. I had just as much reason to fear for my life as he did. Innocent people have been shot By LEOs(this is not cop bashing it is a rare fact). I dont like the Idea of giving up my liberty for his security.

Well, big guy... you had the option of refusing to be disarmed and stand your ground. Why didn't you since your convictions are so strong?

This reminds me of the joke about the cop who pulled two guys over and during the course of the stop, smacked the driver upside the head with his Maglite while the passenger sat in terrified silence.

After letting them go, the cop pulls them back over, goes to the passenger window and smacks THAT guy in the head this time.

When the passenger cries about it, asking why the cop hit him, the cop responds "I'm just granting your wish for you. Because I know a couple more miles down the street you were going to talk big about how you wish that cop had tried that **** with you."

Moral? It's always easier to talk big about it later than it is to be that sort of big talker on the scene.

[Guest jth_3s]

Well, big guy... you had the option of refusing to be disarmed and stand your ground. Why didn't you since your convictions are so strong?

This reminds me of the joke about the cop who pulled two guys over and during the course of the stop, smacked the driver upside the head with his Maglite while the passenger sat in terrified silence.

After letting them go, the cop pulls them back over, goes to the passenger window and smacks THAT guy in the head this time.

When the passenger cries about it, asking why the cop hit him, the cop responds "I'm just granting your wish for you. Because I know a couple more miles down the street you were going to talk big about how you wish that cop had tried that **** with you."

Moral? It's always easier to talk big about it later than it is to be that sort of big talker on the scene((politely).

You're right I should have, but like I said It is not worth the time or money to fight it in court. Had I refused I would have probably been arrested and as a college student I cant really afford to fight it right now. I was more ticketed off about the seatbelt than anything I did tell him my feelings on that at the scene.

[ttocswob]

More complete answer to the OP question (not to mention less critical)

39-17-1351 (t)

(t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder.

I too would have a problem with the gun atop the car. Who's going to know it's me? Just about everybody! My town is smaller than Cookeville. I can hear it now: "heard you were busted" "why did they take your gun?" "why do you carry a gun, anyway?" "looking for trouble?" "concealed means concealed." And for every such comment I heard, there would be 10 more behind my back, so to speak.

BTW, I thought "thicker skin" was reserved for those who open carry

[TGO David]

You're right I should have, but like I said It is not worth the time or money to fight it in court. Had I refused I would have probably been arrested and as a college student I cant really afford to fight it right now. I was more ticketed off about the seatbelt than anything I did tell him my feelings on that at the scene.

Ben Franklin had a lot to lose. So did our forefathers. Just saying... you drew a pretty big parallel between you not liking what the officer did by disarming you (completely within his rights) and what our forefathers rose up against.

I'm glad none of our forefathers were in college. We'd probably be the 50 Colonies.

[JayC]

These types of incidents where officers disarm HCP holders is one of the reasons why some people argue not to tell the officer you're armed in the first place.

[Guest jth_3s]

I live in a town about the size of jamestown when im not in cookeville and thats where this went down. As for open carry I respect everyones right to open carry and I just wish some of them respected my right to keep it concealed.

[ttocswob]

Oops, I see everyone beat me to the link & quote - dang slow internet!

[Guest jth_3s]

Ben Franklin had a lot to lose. So did our forefathers. Just saying... you drew a pretty big parallel between you not liking what the officer did by disarming you (completely within his rights) and what our forefathers rose up against.

I'm glad none of our forefathers were in college. We'd probably be the 50 Colonies.

We have alot to lose, and over the past hundred years we have lost alot. How was he completely within his rights? His rights are granted by an unconstitutional law. If you believe in the 2nd Amendment you can not support any law that infringes on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. I dare say the founders would have rather us been the 50 colonies than what we have now.

[TGO David]

We have alot to lose, and over the past hundred years we have lost alot. How was he completely within his rights? His rights are granted by an unconstitutional law. If you believe in the 2nd Amendment you can not support any law that infringes on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. I dare say the founders would have rather us been the 50 colonies than what we have now.

Unconstitutional how exactly? Just because you don't agree with it? Grow up. There are people who are whining every day about how pot shouldn't be illegal, but know it is, and know what they're setting themselves up for by growing it. Is that unconstitutional as well? I mean, God created weed right?

Don't like a law? Work to get it changed!

Honestly this just seems to be a trend with you and it really seems to me like you've got a hardon for the police/government/the Man/the Court/etc. That's cool and all, but do something productive with that rage and try to affect change through the tools provided by the system.

Of course, some folks just like to ice skate uphill... so if that's your thing... more power to you. Just don't expect to have it embraced.

[Kelemvor]

If you looked or acted suspicious and had the weapon within direct reach, I can see him asking you to relinquish your weapon, but with it in the glovebox, I don't really see the point. As far as the roof of the car goes, where else would he have to put it while standing next to your car? Into his waistband? Really, he was being paranoid or overbearing by feeling the need to disarm you of a weapon that was out of reach, but he could have taken the gun back to his car or put it on the roof, either would have irritated most people.

[Guest jth_3s]

If you looked or acted suspicious and had the weapon within direct reach, I can see him asking you to relinquish your weapon, but with it in the glovebox, I don't really see the point. As far as the roof of the car goes, where else would he have to put it while standing next to your car? Into his waistband? Really, he was being paranoid or overbearing by feeling the need to disarm you of a weapon that was out of reach, but he could have taken the gun back to his car or put it on the roof, either would have irritated most people.

He left it there and went back to his car

[Kelemvor]

He left it there and went back to his car

Then he must have not been that concerned. I imagine you could have just grabbed it off the roof of your car as easily as pulling it out of your glove box. He probably wanted to see what it was.

[Guest jth_3s]

Unconstitutional how exactly? Just because you don't agree with it? Grow up. There are people who are whining every day about how pot shouldn't be illegal, but know it is, and know what they're setting themselves up for by growing it. Is that unconstitutional as well? I mean, God created weed right?

Don't like a law? Work to get it changed!

Honestly this just seems to be a trend with you and it really seems to me like you've got a hardon for the police/government/the Man/the Court/etc. That's cool and all, but do something productive with that rage and try to affect change through the tools provided by the system.

Of course, some folks just like to ice skate uphill... so if that's your thing... more power to you. Just don't expect to have it embraced.

I am working to get it changed I write senators and support legislation that is in our countrys intrest. I have nothing against LEOs I have many many close friends that are deputies. I am against anyone violating my rights. Just becasue something is law doesn't make it right or legal. The Congress and States pass laws that on illegal all the time.The Constitution clearly Tells the Government what its limits are. Any infringment on my right to bear arms is unconstitutional. I'm not saying go break the law, I try to obey it as best I can. If we want to change laws to bring this country back we have to do it by electing true conservatives like Ron Paul.

[Guest mosinon]

Don't like a law? Work to get it changed!

+ like a million to this

[Guest jth_3s]

Then he must have not been that concerned. I imagine you could have just grabbed it off the roof of your car as easily as pulling it out of your glove box. He probably wanted to see what it was.

That is a possibility. He was way to nice to have been just being a dick head. Plus he started talking to me about deer hunting and once I got to know him he was a pretty cool guy. I just wish I could convince him not to enforce the seatbelt law:p.

[EMTRN]

Plus he started talking to me about deer hunting and once I got to know him he was a pretty cool guy. I just wish I could convince him not to enforce the seatbelt law:p.

Why are you griping about an officer who was very nice to you? An easy solution would be to wear your seatbelt and reduce your contact with police officers.

I don't think you are going to have any success with changing the current law. If an officer is not allowed to disarm someone, that compromises officer safety.

[Guest jth_3s]

Why are you griping about an officer who was very nice to you? An easy solution would be to wear your seatbelt and reduce your contact with police officers.

I don't think you are going to have any success with changing the current law. If an officer is not allowed to disarm someone, that compromises officer safety.

I'm not griping about the officer. Im griping about the way he has been taught to interpret the law. And as for the seatbelt, again how is it any of the governments business whether or not I wear it. You are right it is unlikely to change and there is alot more imortant stuff to worry about right now.

If an officer is not allowed to disarm someone, that compromises officer safety.

This is the perfect excuse for Federal firearms confiscation. If the Government is not allowed to disarm someone, that compromises government safety. But I see where you are coming from

[Guest H0TSH0T]

as for the seat-belt, again how is it any of the governments business whether or not I wear it.

just to fill you in, laws are made to protect losers. period. if someone did not lose something a law would not be made to protect them from something like that happening again. i will give a example, and you can take it to what extreme you wish, it will not change my statement. your girl gets raped, she lost a physical contest to a sick individual that violated her intently, as a sick and twisted show of force, (i am not calling your gal a loser)(but she lost in this scenario) so a law was made to protect and punish. same for every law

personally i hope stupid people don't wear their seat-belts, i also hope someone in a lane next to them run them off the road and they hit a tree. but that is just me, less stupid people in the world the less laws we would have. then if they survive they may see that the law was made to protect you cause you failed to protect your self from doing something stupid like getting into a car and having an accident, did you know 100% of all vehicle accident involve a vehicle? think about it........

and yes i concede that some laws are just dumb, but i also think they were made for dumb people, and occasionally a dumb person has made a law. i also think if a law cant be in-forced it is kinda pointless to make. like the fine for baggy pants, or bayonet lugs on fire arms making it an assault weapon......

Edited October 28, 2009 by H0TSH0T

[Guest grimel]

Man, give it about 10-15 more years and you won't care near as much about the petty crap as you do right now. Things like a cop disarming you for his protection during a routine stop will seem like a pretty inconsequential, common sense thing and you won't even think twice about it being left on the roof of your car.

Hmm, let's go the "common sense" route for a minute. The number of times a HCP holder has shot/killed or attempted to do so to an officer during a traffic stop or any other situation? The number of times an officer has over reacted and shot someone by mistake? So, using common sense just who is the greater danger to who?

[Guest TnDeerHunter]

Try put yourself in his shoes and see how you would like sticking your head in someones vehicle. Whether you like the law or not you were breaking the law. This man doesn't know you all he knows is you were breaking the law and just told him you had a weapon in the glove box. Lighten up he is just doing his job, as far as talking him out of inforcing the seatbelt law he didn't make the law he just swore to uphold the law.

[Guest clsutton21]

People usually grow out of their "fight the man" mentality long before you. I bet you even painted those little anarchy symbols on your fingernails in high school didn't you? I honestly don't think you deserve a permit with your attitude.

[Guest jth_3s]

People usually grow out of their "fight the man" mentality long before you. I bet you even painted those little anarchy symbols on your fingernails in high school didn't you? I honestly don't think you deserve a permit with your attitude.

I just grew into it in 2008. I am completely against anarchy all I am advocating is that our government obey its own laws.