Orwellian Overtness!

[Guest FroggyOne2]

leroy,you do realize that this OP is not about cameras watching you take a **** in your home,right?

It was about a video encouraging people,regular people,non-governmental people being encouraged to report possible terrorist activities.

That does not violate the 4th in any way.

Strick.. I don't care if Leroy's post wasn't referring to the OP.. he makes a valid point.. and what he really is getting to is the open air for abuse.. even by those that would or could use it to get back at some one.. we don't need this kind of encouragement..

Edited October 25, 2009 by FroggyOne2

[leroy]

leroy,you do realize that this OP is not about cameras watching you take a **** in your home,right?

It was about a video encouraging people,regular people,non-governmental people being encouraged to report possible terrorist activities.

That does not violate the 4th in any way.

Strickj; ole buddy. As a matter of fact, Yeah, i realize it.

I commented on some reasonable opinions at about post #10 on this thread. I ADDED the British link from the NYTimes. RE: Who is watching the watchers. I don't know about you, but it looks to me like the conversation i was involved in moved from the LAPD thing to the real problem in Britain. RE: George Orwell, 1984 stuff. Refer to post #14. RE: The British Youwatch Program. By the way, them little red things that look like cameras in the graphic are cameras stationed in a residential neighborhood near ole George's house -- yeah, i realize he dont live there anymore -- he's dead..

Mabee i appear a little slow; my tinfoil hat may be a little too tight. My comments RE: the Fourth Amendment are in connection with the British article and public surviellence by the "watchers", who many in this country will quickly endorse. I, like many others (some of them here), think this public surviellence and "rat on your brother" stuff is not good for any free society.

Hope this clears up any misconceptions. I'm old, and my hat may still be a little too tight. I am, by nature, a suspicious man. I'm not senile, childish, or foolish.

LEROY

[TGO David]

Strick.. I don't care if Leroy's post wasn't referring to the OP.. he makes a valid point.. and what he really is getting to is the open air for abuse.. even by those that would or could use it to get back at some one.. we don't need this kind of encouragement..

So if we're not going to respond to the context of the original post anymore...

Anyone else glad that the Titans had a bye-week today?

[Guest jth_3s]

Leeroy, you need to go back and read what you quoted again. The 4th Amendment guarantees you reasonable sovereignty in your HOME. It does not guarantee you those things in public. Our forefathers knew what they were doing, you're just distorting what they endeavored to provide.

The 4th Amendment protects your right to be secure in your PERSON, houses, papers, and effects. I beleive that covers more than just inside your home.

And so what if these "big brother cameras" become used for catching people who litter or commit other petty crimes. A crime is a crime is a crime, right? The same complaint could be lodged against traffic cameras that might catch you running a red-light during the darkest hours of the night when no other souls were around. You still ran a red-light, so you still deserved to get caught..

Traffic Cameras and Red Light cameras are set up by Private Companies. They create incentives to decrease Yellow Light intervals and move the sensors so they will trip when people are already through the intersection. You are suspossed to be able to confront your accuser in court how can you confront a cammera? And do you really believe the Government should be contracting out law enforcement? Traffic Cameras are nothing more than an illegal source of revenue for local governments.

I see a lot of people bellyaching about what-if scenarios, and some of these scenarios involve doing something wrong in the first place. It seems there's an easy solution here. Don't do anything illegal.

If anybody needs to start obeying the law its the Government they have completely ignored the constitution. The only law the people need to obey is the Constitution and Natural Law.

[NuTcAsE]

So if we're not going to respond to the context of the original post anymore...

Anyone else glad that the Titans had a bye-week today?

We were still 35 point dogs to the bye...

[poak]

Wait...

So can the gov't see what I do in the shower?!?!?!?!?!

I was just washing it thoroughly, I SWEAR!

[strickj]

The 4th Amendment protects your right to be secure in your PERSON, houses, papers, and effects. I beleive that covers more than just inside your home.

Traffic Cameras and Red Light cameras are set up by Private Companies. They create incentives to decrease Yellow Light intervals and move the sensors so they will trip when people are already through the intersection. You are suspossed to be able to confront your accuser in court how can you confront a cammera? And do you really believe the Government should be contracting out law enforcement? Traffic Cameras are nothing more than an illegal source of revenue for local governments.

If anybody needs to start obeying the law its the Government they have completely ignored the constitution. The only law the people need to obey is the Constitution and Natural Law.

1)They don't issue citations for running yellow lights,only red lights.It doesn't matter how long the light stays yellow,as long as you don't pass the little white line when it turns red.

I have one I go through several times aday,and never received a citation....but I also don't run red lights

2) A picture is taken of your car.That picture is all the proof anyone needs to show if you ran a light or not.

3) They are not contracting out law enforcement.

4) They are not imposing on your 4th. You are in public. The cameras are operated by private. Its no different then being caught on camera at the mall breaking into cars.

5) Not sure how its an illegal source of income,no laws are being broken by having cameras in public.

Furthermore,any money made comes from people breaking the law.I'd rather the city make money from law breakers,then tax payers.

6) This is not relevant to the OP.

Again,for anyone who forgot,or is dyslexic,the OP is about a video encouraging people to report possible terrorist activity. Something every red blooded American that loves their county should do regardless if anybody ask them to or not.

[Guest jth_3s]

1)They don't issue citations for running yellow lights,only red lights.It doesn't matter how long the light stays yellow,as long as you don't pass the little white line when it turns red.

I have one I go through several times aday,and never received a citation....but I also don't run red lights

If they shorten the Yellow Light Interval and you get caught in the middle of the intersection when the light changes you will get photographed. Some of the Camera Companies may have different set ups though Im not sure

2) A picture is taken of your car.That picture is all the proof anyone needs to show if you ran a light or not.

No. You are entitled to Due Process. You have a right to confront your accuser in court and defend yourself. Check out the 6th Amendment

3) They are not contracting out law enforcement.

Yes they are. Lockheed Martin and other Companies are setting up these cameras. The Private companies get a cut out of all of the citations giving them every incentive to rig the cameras. I consider this contracting out law enforcement.

4) They are not imposing on your 4th. You are in public. The cameras are operated by private. Its no different then being caught on camera at the mall breaking into cars.

I agree they are not. I was simply commenting on a post that said the 4th only applied to your home.

5) Not sure how its an illegal source of income,no laws are being broken by having cameras in public.

Furthermore,any money made comes from people breaking the law.I'd rather the city make money from law breakers,then tax payers.

It is illegal because you are denied due process and are considered guilty until proven innocent based on a picture, when the whole system could be rigged.

6) This is not relevant to the OP.

Again,for anyone who forgot,or is dyslexic,the OP is about a video encouraging people to report possible terrorist activity. Something every red blooded American that loves their county should do regardless if anybody ask them to or not.

I didnt know this wasn't relevant, I was just responding to a post by David. As for reporting suspected terrorist activity, they could very easily cause people to become the innocent victims of a Federal Investigation based on nothing more than mere suspicion by their neighbor(who may just not like them).

[strickj]

As for reporting suspected terrorist activity, they could very easily cause people to become the innocent victims of a Federal Investigation based on nothing more than mere suspicion by their neighbor(who may just not like them).

Not going to reply to the redlight,there's another thread going on currently about those.

Then they(the ones reporting) would be help accountable for filling false reports.

But you are correct,it could be used in that way.

However,there is no solution for that,unless you do away with any crime reports by citizens.

That means if someone is breaking into your home,and your neighbor sees it...or maybe you're being beaten in a parking lot...or you see a man in a mask,and gun entering a bank...or maybe you see Ahmed the dead terrorist taking over a bus station...

[Guest jth_3s]

Then they(the ones reporting) would be help accountable for filling false reports.

But you are correct,it could be used in that way.

However,there is no solution for that,unless you do away with any crime reports by citizens.

That means if someone is breaking into your home,and your neighbor sees it...or maybe you're being beaten in a parking lot...or you see a man in a mask,and gun entering a bank...or maybe you see Ahmed the dead terrorist taking over a bus station...

It would be different if you saw something like you described, But this video is asking people to report "suspicious activity". That is nothing like seeing someone with a gun run into a bus station or seeing a man breaking into a house. If you see a crime happening by all means report it but dont go around calling in people for being suspicious. If anybody needs to be more vigilant its our own government. Had they acted on their own intelligence, 9/11 may have be averted. We got by just fine before all this Terrorist Hype Non-sense and fear mongering.