When to employ a BUG

[Im Neero]

I recently purchased a Smith&Wesson model 642 revolver for pocket carry, and sometimes carry it as a BUG to my 1911. I plan on taking the BUG course at Rangemaster next time they offer it, but until then I have a few questions about this type of carry.

First, when is it appropriate to use the second gun instead of just reloading the 1911? I assume that any time there is a malfunction on the 1911 it would be faster to use the 642, but what if the 1911 just runs out of bullets?

My second question is when it is appropriate to use the 642, what do you do with the 1911 when you switch? Do you take the time to reholster or just drop it somewhere, leaving a potentially useable weapon just lying around?

I know that the answer is probably "it depends on the situation" and I know at least one person is likely to respond with the "you never fire more than three shots in an encounter and if it is a situation where you run out of bullets you're probably dead" but I figured I'd ask anyways to see what you guys think.

[jgrauman]

"it depends on the situation" "you never fire more than three shots in an encounter and if it is a situation where you run out of bullets you're probably dead"

there's your answer

[Im Neero]

there's your answer

Thanks.

[Guest 270win]

The 642 is a great sized carry everywhere handgun. I've got one myself and have been very pleased with it. I tried the Kel Tecs as a small carry gun, but came away unimpressed with the 9mm and later the 380 i bought. I also tried a small Beretta 22 tip barrel. I had reliability problems with both the Kel Tec 380 and the Beretta 22 tip barrel Bobcat. After messing with picky pocket pistols i decided to go with a revolver because it always goes bang. I do have a Glock 19, never a problem, but often find it hard to carry everywhere. The 642 is right at home in a cheap Uncle Mike's pocket holster and no one knows any better.

If you run out of 8 rounds of 45ACP and have not driven off your attacker, you are in a very bad situation that rarely happens to people in self defense situations. Just the sight of the handgun is usually enough to make someone run. I never carry both my Glock and snub at the same time, except at the range. Too much hassle for someone who is not chasing down criminals. I feel quite safe just carrying my snub nosed revolver. Many people have been saved by a good 38 snub.

[Guest canynracer]

fight until the threat is gone...if that means unload your arsenal, unload it...lol..if they are still comin, punch the bullet holes...throw your empty clips at him, run to your car and run him down like a speed bump...back up, and park with your front tire on his chest...obvioulsy I am exagerrating here

but seriously, I was taught to shoot till the threat is gone..I will carry a 9mm with 2- 16 rd clips JHP...if I dont take the threat away with 32 bullets..well then, I guess he earned it. now, if I carry a backup (I dont)...well then I guess i got an extra 5 or 6 to shoot...

[Guest canynracer]

My second question is when it is appropriate to use the 642, what do you do with the 1911 when you switch? Do you take the time to reholster or just drop it somewhere, leaving a potentially useable weapon just lying around?

shoot one handed with the primary, reach for the backup with your left, then drop the clip whiile continuing to fire with the backup, drop the clip and reload primary..... or, just pull both....LMAO, hey, it works in the movies!!!!

ok, I am done trying to be funny...I honestly dont know, I would assume that if you have to drop your primary, it would be right next to you...maybe step on it, but definatley keep it away from the BG...

[Im Neero]

Good responses Racer. Anyone else?

[saintsfanbrian]

The BUG is to be used when the first one is out of ammo, removed from your person by the perp or you just can get to it easier than the primary. There is no "answer" here other than what you find if and when you need to deploy it.

[Marswolf]

Yeah, a BUG is just that - a backup in case the main gun doesn't work properly or can't be used for whatever reason.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

+1 to saintsfanbrian (go Packers).

When to deploy a BUG is so situational dependant that there is no "concrete" answer to your question.

I'll add this...I carry my BUG "weak-hand" accessable. One very real BUG situation would be in the instance of a serious "strong-hand" injury/loss of main gun.

Many times we envision our "moment of truth" in the best light...many forget that a serious injury is a very real possibility no matter how good/tough we are.

You may not be shooting your BUG just because your main ran dry.

Plan for your worst case, not your best case.

Regards

[Marswolf]

Very true Todd. But such scenarios tend to affect professionals more than the normal protective handgun carriers we see with carry permits. The number of hand injuries among high profile LE who use lights on their duty guns is a lot higher than most people think. Ability to use the weak hand and a functioning backup gun becomes very important.

It's one reason I carry my tac-light off of the handgun these days.

So, I'm by no means disagreeing with you, just doing a bit more explaining.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

IMO, weapon mounted lights do not contribute all that much to hand injuries received in shootings...we saw quite a bit of that (simunition training and shootings) before pistol mounted lights became common.

I believe hand/gun positioning during firing (ie. center mass area) contributes more to this.

I guess the point I was trying to make is this...if someone decides to carry two handguns, it might be a good idea to have one of them easily accessed by the weak-hand.

Best

[Im Neero]

That's a good idea carrying the 642 weak hand Todd. It makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the responses everyone.

[Guest jackdog]

There are times when it is easier and safer to go for the bug rather than the primary.

Often times I will walk with my hands in my pockets. Hand already on the grip of the bug.

Makes for a rather quick draw. Other option is to reach for your primary. Bad guy sees you go under your jacket,you might eat a bullet.

[The Rabbi]

There are times when it is easier and safer to go for the bug rather than the primary.

Often times I will walk with my hands in my pockets. Hand already on the grip of the bug.

Makes for a rather quick draw. Other option is to reach for your primary. Bad guy sees you go under your jacket,you might eat a bullet.

I thought I was the only one who did that. I often will just put my left hand on the 642 (I also carry one) inside the pocket if I sense some potential threat. If I need to shoot through the pocket I can do so (yet another advantage to the semi-detached rotating cylinder magazine).

Another consideration is that my wife, who has a permit, never carries so if we' re somewhere and she might need a gun as well I have a spare to give her.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I know at least one person is likely to respond with the "you never fire more than three shots in an encounter and if it is a situation where you run out of bullets you're probably dead" but I figured I'd ask anyways to see what you guys think.

I know of at least 2 CIVILIAN gunfights where the good guy ran his gun to slidelock -1 was with an 11 shot .40 the other with an 8 shot 9mm. FORTUNATELY the BG in case #1 was down and out having takien 11 hits and in case # 2 the 2 BGs (YES TWO) were both down, one taking 5 hits and the other taking 2 , the 8th rd missed as Mr Badguy #2 turned and ran.

So anyone who says NEVER is just wrong. Is it LIKELY to need to empty your primary and go to a secondary? No. BUt that is cold comfort to the guy who it DOES happen to. If we just prepare for LIKELY stuff then why even carry a gun at all? For that matter why own a fire extinguisher or wear seatbelts?

Personally I'd rather not LIMIT my ability to DEFEND MY LIFE. Most all the SERIOUS gun carriers I regularly interact with carry a second gun accessable to their non dominant hand. This is generally in case the primary breaks ( I know of more than one case where someone's gun was hit with a bullet), their dominant hand gets injured and they drop the primary, or they simply draw it with non dominant hand to gain some surprise advantage -IE the already palmed gun in pocket that you are able to draw without looking like you are going for a gun or shoot through a jacket pocket .

I'm not suggesting you MUST carry a second gun. It just gives an extra layer of options.....

[The Rabbi]

This is why state lotteries always do so well.....

[Cruel Hand Luke]

If you lose the state lottery you are out 1 dollar .

If you lose the "damn it, this gunfight didn't fit into the statistical likelihood category" lottery and you only prepared for the LIKELY civilian gunfight then you will likely lie there gurgling your own blood until everything goes black.

I'd rather not spend that time thinking "Damn I wish I'd practiced more, carried more ammo, or a backup gun"...but your mileage may vary.....

[molonlabetn]

For the space and weight, it's arguable that a couple of spare mags would be more useable, faster into action (or at least more effective), and provide more shots than a BUG.

IF the choice came down between a spare mag and a BUG, iI'd take the spare mag every time... but would take both if a valid option.

[The Rabbi]

As mentioned I carry a BUG.

But citing anecdotal evidence like that in support of a position is just poor argument because you could apply it to anything with hilarious results.

Do you carry 4 spare tires? I know someone who had 4 flats. I'd sure hate to be on the side of the road in the South Bronx thinking "damn, I wish I had loaded that 4th spare."

Of course since I havent been to the South Bronx in over 15 years and have no intention of going it likely isn't something to worry about. I have limited time and resources. Since I am more likely to die of heart attack or stroke I'd rather take some time to exercise than practice draw strokes.

It's a gun board mentality.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I guess I'm just a freak. I make time to exercise AND practice draw stroke, marksmanship, gunhandling, reloads, transitions, empty hands, knife and watch TV and do all the other "life stuff".

And remember what happens to you is to everyone else in the world , just an anecdotal story. Bad things only happen to "other people". To everyone else in the world other than me, I AM OTHER PEOPLE.......Again if Least Common Denominator is what you are comfy with that is YOUR choice. Some of us don't choose to be LEAST COMMON . Some of us choose to be more than "barely competent".

[The Rabbi]

I guess I'm just a freak. I make time to exercise AND practice draw stroke, marksmanship, gunhandling, reloads, transitions, empty hands, knife and watch TV and do all the other "life stuff".

That's why you're my hero.

[Im Neero]

Let's not forget one thing. We may never have to use them, as a matter of fact, we probably won't have to. But we're all members of a gun forum. We like guns. I think they're neat. It's a hobby, just like my nephew carries his nintendo DS everywhere. It just so happens to be a hobby that comes in really useful if someone decides that I look like food.

[Guest nitrous_mike]

For the space and weight, it's arguable that a couple of spare mags would be more useable, faster into action (or at least more effective), and provide more shots than a BUG.

IF the choice came down between a spare mag and a BUG, iI'd take the spare mag every time... but would take both if a valid option.

Thats how I look at it and what I do every day. I carry a few extra clips on me and have some extra ammo along with a few more clips in my truck, plus I have a "BUG". Maybe I am just a lil nutty but I never heard anyone complain about too much ammo when they need it.

[The Rabbi]

And the downside to that is when the DA asserts, what were you doing with all that ammo, which is more than an LE carries? You were looking for a fight!

But since you chances of actually being in a gun fight are extremely low it won't be an issue.