Why Marswolf hates Glocks

[musicman]

I've already had one KB with my AR while shooting Ultramax remanufactured .223. (Their manufacturing error, they replaced my upper) I reload nearly all my pistol ammo and fully understand the stress that .40 cases go through in an unsupported chamber. That bulge is just sickening; it should be criminal to design a gun like that.

Anyways, my first gun was a Sigma in .40 and I began reloading soon after I bought my first box of ammo and my wallet about burned up right there at the cash register. In a couple weeks I loaded over 2,000 rounds. Well, at the next gunshow I went to, a beautiful S&W model 19-3 sat there begging me to take it. I was about $200 shy and the only fodder I had was Sigma, so I walked the floor with it for awhile and sold it for $275. (At the time some dealers were selling them for $299 brand new!) I was happy, but I had over 1,600 rounds of .40 left with no gun to shoot them in! Soon enough my neighbor called telling me he bought a .40. I got all excited thinking I'd finally have a way to shoot up some of that ammo! Ended up being a Glock 23.... I've still got over 1,600 rounds of .40 in the closet.

I just don't understand buying a gun that you can't just shoot, but have to baby to make sure it's OK. I don't load my .40 to anywhere near max pressure, but I still won't let them see the inside of a Glock chamber.

Have any of you guys ever held a Glock barrel and any other barrel side by side, with a cartidge in each and looked at them closely?

Sure, the Glock design is simple and mostly reliable, but how many well made autos boast the same thing these days? And usually for less money.

I'm not necessarily a Glock "hater", I simply think you can do just as well with many other guns (of course, the XD, M&P, et al, come to mind) that will also handle a wider variety of ammo safely.

/ Vent off =)

[Guest Mugster]

I've already had one KB with my AR while shooting Ultramax remanufactured .223. (Their manufacturing error, they replaced my upper) I reload nearly all my pistol ammo and fully understand the stress that .40 cases go through in an unsupported chamber. That bulge is just sickening; it should be criminal to design a gun like that.

Anyways, my first gun was a Sigma in .40 and I began reloading soon after I bought my first box of ammo and my wallet about burned up right there at the cash register. In a couple weeks I loaded over 2,000 rounds. Well, at the next gunshow I went to, a beautiful S&W model 19-3 sat there begging me to take it. I was about $200 shy and the only fodder I had was Sigma, so I walked the floor with it for awhile and sold it for $275. (At the time some dealers were selling them for $299 brand new!) I was happy, but I had over 1,600 rounds of .40 left with no gun to shoot them in! Soon enough my neighbor called telling me he bought a .40. I got all excited thinking I'd finally have a way to shoot up some of that ammo! Ended up being a Glock 23.... I've still got over 1,600 rounds of .40 in the closet.

I just don't understand buying a gun that you can't just shoot, but have to baby to make sure it's OK. I don't load my .40 to anywhere near max pressure, but I still won't let them see the inside of a Glock chamber.

Have any of you guys ever held a Glock barrel and any other barrel side by side, with a cartidge in each and looked at them closely?

Sure, the Glock design is simple and mostly reliable, but how many well made autos boast the same thing these days? And usually for less money.

I'm not necessarily a Glock "hater", I simply think you can do just as well with many other guns (of course, the XD, M&P, et al, come to mind) that will also handle a wider variety of ammo safely.

/ Vent off =)

Out of curiosity on your AR kb, what caused it? I wouldn't think an overcharge likely on remax because they are really loaded anemic...or at least the 55gr fmj is.

[musicman]

Nope, like you say, it's about impossible to double charge in .223 'cuz most everything is near case-filling. They told me thought it was a double bullet. (There was no squib previous to the detonated round, the previous bullet had left the barrel)

Not buying that stuff again.

here's the damage...

[Guest DonRickles]

Wow that sucks.......now get a real rifle...AK!

[Guest Mugster]

You're lucky you got all your fingers and eyes. Thats why I shoot factory from the big makers or my own reloads. I don't trust anything else, unless my buddy makes it.

I mic factory ammo to make sure the OAL is within reason. I might start weighing it out too.

You should start a thread on this down in the ammo can. Get some of these guys thinking more about safe ammo instead of cheap ammo.

[Marswolf]

Ooo, that looks unpleasant. Glad they replaced the upper for you.

[Guest Eddie]

Some folks just seem to shoot certain guns better than others.

Excellent point. I have a Glock 23 that I frequently carry for the obvious reasons: Light, comfortable, tough. Having given the positives, the downside for me is the grip angle. It causes me to shoot low. Only the Glock. Nothing else that I own. I've spent the past couple of days verifying this. After today, the Glock is locked in the safe. I'm thinking that my next purchase will be another wheel gun (S&W Mod 60, 3" bbl).

Good to hear from someone in Harriman (Born & raised in Harriman).

[Marswolf]

Having given the positives, the downside for me is the grip angle. It causes me to shoot low. Only the Glock. Nothing else that I own.

This is what happened to me with the G26. I compensated for the gun and it shot OK, but when I picked up an XD-9 subcompact and shot it, I was still compensating for the Glock and the XD didn't shoot where I pointed it - or so it seemed. I had to remind myself that I wasn't shooting the Glock and shot the XD as though it was my Beretta 92. Then the rounds went where they were supposed to go.

[Guest Eddie]

quote=Marswolf;34821]This is what happened to me with the G26. I compensated for the gun and it shot OK.

Why should we have the need to compensate? If you are ever placed in a position of dire need, can you remember to compensate?

I can't!

It is a matter or ergonomics. Guns aren't made out spandex, so one size doesn't fit all.

Come to think of it, I've seen some spandex that didn't "fit" too well...Bad mental image.

Anyway, the Glock's resting in the safe today.

[Marswolf]

When I was shooting the Glock, I didn't realize I was compensating for it. I guess a Glockie could claim that the Glock was the only properly ergonomically designed gun I had and that I was compensating for all the rest of them.

Why not just do what I did and trade the Glock for something more to your liking?

[Mike.357]

Shooting low does not bother me, better than shooting high. In a defensive shooting you are still putting a hurt on a bad guy.

[Guest Eddie]

Why not just do what I did and trade the Glock for something more to your liking?

I probably won't trade it, but I am looking for my next one. As mentioned, I really like the feel of the S&W mod 60. I've got Christmas and 3 boat payments to get through, and after that, it will be time for a purchase.

The M&P's are intriguing too. Until the bills are paid, I'm carrying my P95. It will never win a beauty contest, but it eats everything that's fed to it. In my humble opinion, the P95 is a best buy. And it doesn't require aim compensation.

[Guest dotsun]

I've never had a problem out of my little 26, it puts the rounds right where I aim. In fact, I qualified with it on the I.C.E. course this month at Phantom's range.

[Marswolf]

For me, Glocks don't aim like other guns. That doesn't mean they can't be accurate, just that I have to learn a different shooting style in order to achieve that accuracy. It becomes second nature after a while.

It was only while shooting the XD-9 sub, that is very much like the G26, that I realized what I was doing. What I found was that the XD, USP, P7M8, Beretta 92 & Tomcat, 1911s of various types, Five-seven, etc all use the same basic shooting hold but Glocks have to be dealt with somewhat differently. But with practice time, it becomes natural. I found that true later when I tried a G23 for a while.

It's not really a big deal. For me, a Glock is just different.

[Guest triggertime]

The grip angle on a Glock does not cause you to shoot low.

It does the exact opposite and causes the pistol to point high,

specifically if you're using an outdated shooting technique that

was built around the 1911 platform.

If you're shooting low with a Glock, its the result of poor trigger control.

Don't blame the pistol, blame yourself.

[dcloudy777]

Generally when a Glock is shooting low it's because the Playskool front sight has come off again...

DanO

[Marswolf]

Well, I'm glad we got that straight. Glock does the grip the correct way and the rest of the world's gun makers can't get it right.

And from what I observed, I was compensating for the Glock shooting high. But again, it's not a big deal unless you can't stand to hear anything that doesn't reinforce the myth of Glock perfection.

[towerclimber37]

The grip angle on a Glock does not cause you to shoot low.

It does the exact opposite and causes the pistol to point high,

specifically if you're using an outdated shooting technique that

was built around the 1911 platform.

If you're shooting low with a Glock, its the result of poor trigger control.

Don't blame the pistol, blame yourself.

that "outdated" technique is still used today in many militaries. including our own. That technique will still get the job done and with a better reliability using that "old outdated 1911 platform" than glock will ever hope to achieve.

Its not hyperbole, its fact. If Glock were half as good as a 1911 then we'd see people praising it to the skies WITHOUT the self inflicted wounds.

you might get less criticism if you were to remove the comparison to the 1911. That pistol has more firsts to its credit than the glock will ever have, with less changes to the original design.

of course, thats probably because John Moses Browning was a Prodigy and probably sent from on high to make sure that things went right for us God fearing folk, and Gaston is just a cheap hack with delusions of adequacy and the first and only bright idea that he ever had and never should have acted on. More than likely he works for shaitan.....

just my

:D

[Urse]

I am gonna start carrying a H&K P7 or maybe a Luger. Screw the Glock and that screwy grip angle.

[Guest Eddie]

The grip angle on a Glock does not cause you to shoot low.

It does the exact opposite and causes the pistol to point high,

specifically if you're using an outdated shooting technique that

was built around the 1911 platform.

If you're shooting low with a Glock, its the result of poor trigger control.

Don't blame the pistol, blame yourself.

I'm listening. What 21st century technique do you suggest? Once you've finished enlightening me to your ways, you can explain to me why my other guns, manufactured by the likes of Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Taurus, Colt, and Kel Tec, neither point high or shoot low.

If I buy into your idea, I must believe that since the same finger pulls the triggers on all mentioned firearms, then the gun that shoots low must have a poor trigger (Process of elimination).

[The Rabbi]

And yet another Glock-hatefest goes down into personal insults and recriminations.

This is getting tedious.

[Guest dotsun]

Hey we're getting better, we made it 5 pages this time.

[Guest Phantom6]

You got a point there Dotson. We must be evolving, eh?

BTW, when out in Dallas for a training gig last week I actually met a gal that had been shooting a glock for quite some time without experiencing Glock Butt. When I complimented her on that she said in her no nonsense south Texas way (she was from down near San Antonio), "Hell, I' ain't got much of a butt anyway- it missed!"

[Urse]

You know there are some very intelligent, well-informed individuals that hang out here. That is why the redundancy of topics is suprising. I have not checked in here for probably 2 weeks and when I do there is nothing remotely new other than some fluff topics. So lame what a shame. I guess I will check back in a month or so.

P.S..... By the way the H&K P7, Luger and Glock all have a very similiar grip angle. 110 degrees give or take a degree. The Glock generally will point high for Browning disciples. If you are shooting low that is because you are using to much finger on the trigger and/or your trigger technique sucks. Of course this is just my opinion...........Ta-Ta

[Marswolf]

That's odd, My P7M8 seems to point the same way my other guns do. Maybe it's not the grip angle but some other factor that makes the Glock different?

But what do I know. I never have a new thought.