Saiga 12 question

[Motasyco]

I've been keeping half an eye open for a Saiga 12 for home defense. I've really only been looking at the 19" version. Best prices I've seen are around $500 or a little higher + shipping + transfer + TICS. Locally, over $600 + tax + TICS. I'm in no hurry so have been waiting to find a "deal". I've seen a 22" for $449 delivered. That would put it in my hands for less than $500. Here's my question. 19" vs 22". For home protection use, close range, does it really make any difference? Also, again for home defense, fixed vs adjustable sights. Your opinions please.

[Guest jimdigriz]

Adjustable sights are not needed for home defense use. The shorter barrel will obviously be more maneuverable. These guns are already much too long, 41 and 45 inches. That is, the longer version is almost 4 FEET long. If you convert the shorter version to pistol grip (as you really ought to, for a number of reasons) and a Warsaw Pact length stock, you will come in at 38 inches. MUCH better.

[Seaslug]

I actually had my barrel cut down to 16" and permanently affixed a Tromix shark brake during the conversion process, so you might consider doing something like this (only adds a few bucks to the work). If you do, then it won't matter which barrel length you buy, and you can save some money. Just my ...

You may not remember, but I'm pretty sure you saw my gun at the June shoot on BigJ45's property. Here's a pic I recently posted in the EBR thread, just to give you an idea...

[Guest jimdigriz]

I actually had my barrel cut down to 16" and permanently affixed a Tromix shark brake during the conversion process, so you might consider doing something like this (only adds a few bucks to the work). If you do, then it won't matter which barrel length you buy, and you can save some money. Just my ...

Does the shark brake count toward the length of the barrel, for legal purposes?

Not sure I'd want to have a muzzle break on a gun that's meant to be used in the house.

[Seaslug]

Does the shark brake count toward the length of the barrel, for legal purposes?

Not sure I'd want to have a muzzle break on a gun that's meant to be used in the house.

1. As long as it's permanently affixed, yes.

2. Why not? It helps (slightly) to reduce recoil for rapid and accurate follow-up shots, and it can also be used as a bludgeoning tool if the S really does HTF...

Besides, even if he didn't wanna spring for a brake, he could still have either barrel cut down to 18" and still be legal (and more maneuverable).

[Kelemvor]

Does the shark brake count toward the length of the barrel, for legal purposes?

Yes, so long as it is pinned or otherwise permanently affixed.

[mk19]

I'd go for the 22 incher one at $499. then save up a bit more abd get a convertion done on it lile Seaslug has or something of that sort.

[Motasyco]

I actually had my barrel cut down to 16" and permanently affixed a Tromix shark brake during the conversion process, so you might consider doing something like this (only adds a few bucks to the work). If you do, then it won't matter which barrel length you buy, and you can save some money. Just my ...

You may not remember, but I'm pretty sure you saw my gun at the June shoot on BigJ45's property. Here's a pic I recently posted in the EBR thread, just to give you an idea...

That is a beauty! No, I don't recall seeing it that day in June but between all the different guns there and my extreme euphoria resulting from the smell of burnt powder and the throwing of lead, I'm not suprised. It was a great day! If you don't mind sharing, about what did the conversion cost you (without optics) and where did you get it done?

[poak]

Hey Seaslug, what forearm is that?

[Motasyco]

I'd go for the 22 incher one at $499. then save up a bit more abd get a convertion done on it lile Seaslug has or something of that sort.

Actually it's $449 delivered. This is on Gunbroker. There are several listings at this price, I believe from the same source. And it does seem like a good deal. I was afraid at that price maybe I was overlooking something. You know, if it sounds too good to be true..... This is all great feedback!

[Magiccarpetrides]

blah....seaslug, pm sent

Edited October 23, 2009 by Magiccarpetrides
blah

[Seaslug]

That is a beauty! No, I don't recall seeing it that day in June but between all the different guns there and my extreme euphoria resulting from the smell of burnt powder and the throwing of lead, I'm not suprised. It was a great day! If you don't mind sharing, about what did the conversion cost you (without optics) and where did you get it done?

You sure you wanna know how much I've got in that thing? I mean, are you SURE? If you're not prepared to swallow hard, then don't read any further...

Okay, here goes: I spent a little over $400 after shipping at Mississippi Auto Arms for the Tromix stock, the folding mechanism, the receiver block (optional), the SAW pistol grip, the DIY trigger guard, the Tapco G2 fire control group, the Galil-style vertical charging handle (not seen), and the Shark brake. I also spent another $140 or so at LaRue Tactical for the vertical foregrip and the rail covers. Oh, and $35 to MD Arms for the Gas Fixer adjustable gas plug.

I had the conversion done by Shannon at Coal Creek Armory, where I also purchased the tri-rail forend and the Ultimak top rail. The total cost of the conversion after those two parts, barrel cutdown and re-thread, parkerization, and refinish was just a hair short of $600 after tax (the forend and the top rail ate about 40% of that).

Whew. I'm about to pass out all over again. I'm almost embarrassed to admit all of that on a public forum. Don't even get me started on the Kobra red dot...

Hey Seaslug, what forearm is that?

To be honest, I couldn't tell you the manufacturer. There are no markings that I can recall. It's just a solid aluminum forend that Shannon (the smith) likes to use on his Saiga conversions. My Dad got one on his first, and I was very impressed, so I ordered one, too. I also had the Ultimak rail bolted to the gas tube, which I thought gave me a nice "quad-rail" effect without having to hunt down (and pay for) a Kaos.

[poak]

To be honest, I couldn't tell you the manufacturer. There are no markings that I can recall. It's just a solid aluminum forend that Shannon (the smith) likes to use on his Saiga conversions. My Dad got one on his first, and I was very impressed, so I ordered one, too. I also had the Ultimak rail bolted to the gas tube, which I thought gave me a nice "quad-rail" effect without having to hunt down (and pay for) a Kaos.

Cool, looks great and I don't think I've seen one before

[Motasyco]

You sure you wanna know how much I've got in that thing? I mean, are you SURE? If you're not prepared to swallow hard, then don't read any further...

Okay, here goes: I spent a little over $400 after shipping at Mississippi Auto Arms for the Tromix stock, the folding mechanism, the receiver block (optional), the SAW pistol grip, the DIY trigger guard, the Tapco G2 fire control group, the Galil-style vertical charging handle (not seen), and the Shark brake. I also spent another $140 or so at LaRue Tactical for the vertical foregrip and the rail covers. Oh, and $35 to MD Arms for the Gas Fixer adjustable gas plug.

I had the conversion done by Shannon at Coal Creek Armory, where I also purchased the tri-rail forend and the Ultimak top rail. The total cost of the conversion after those two parts, barrel cutdown and re-thread, parkerization, and refinish was just a hair short of $600 after tax (the forend and the top rail ate about 40% of that).

Whew. I'm about to pass out all over again. I'm almost embarrassed to admit all of that on a public forum. Don't even get me started on the Kobra red dot...

To be honest, I couldn't tell you the manufacturer. There are no markings that I can recall. It's just a solid aluminum forend that Shannon (the smith) likes to use on his Saiga conversions. My Dad got one on his first, and I was very impressed, so I ordered one, too. I also had the Ultimak rail bolted to the gas tube, which I thought gave me a nice "quad-rail" effect without having to hunt down (and pay for) a Kaos.

Gulp. But really nice. Maybe I could just start a little by little conversion with a hacksaw.

[Seaslug]

Gulp. But really nice. Maybe I could just start a little by little conversion with a hacksaw.

Warned ya'...

Also, I've seen pre-converted Saigas with basic furniture for as little as $899, or you could even do the conversion yourself with the proper tools and a little patience. There are guides over at the Saiga-12 forum. Either way, good luck! My Saiga is my favorite gun without question, so the end justifies the means!

[mk19]

^^^ agreed. Now you don't have to go and make your's as sexy as Seaslug's, you can just do a Warsaw pact ak buttstock and SAW pistol grip (I'd do this myself- it is cheaper ) ofcourse to do this you have to modify some other items (can find a list online). and the barrel just hack it down to 18.5 or 19 inches.

[Guest mrl4ng]

I actually just found myself on the receiving end of a bone-stock saiga 12.

I was kinda curious about the pistol grip conversion. Anyone here done one personally? I was going to see if I could pay someone to SHOW me how to do the conversion. I really really like your rifle seaslug. That thing is gorgeous.

Im actually looking at having my dad make a wood forend/buttstock for mine, but I think Im going to need a hand with the trigger group relocation.

Thanks in advance.

[Smith]

I actually just found myself on the receiving end of a bone-stock saiga 12.

I was kinda curious about the pistol grip conversion. Anyone here done one personally? I was going to see if I could pay someone to SHOW me how to do the conversion. I really really like your rifle seaslug. That thing is gorgeous.

Im actually looking at having my dad make a wood forend/buttstock for mine, but I think Im going to need a hand with the trigger group relocation.

Thanks in advance.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=40886 Explains it all with pictures.

Nah, you don't need help. It is really easy. I would go here Tromix Do-It-Yourself Saiga 12 Trigger Guard - $45.00 : Mississippi Auto Arms, Inc ::, Your Source for Saiga, AK47, AR15, Tromix, Glock, and SKS firearms and accessories and get the DIY trigger guard deal and a trigger group. Then all you do is drill out/cut the rivets off the old one stick the new stuff on and your done. Here's some links and you can search for more. http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=839181

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/long-guns/20616-saiga-conversion.html

Edited October 27, 2009 by Smith

[Guest jimdigriz]

Nah, you don't need help. It is really easy.

The second time. Or, the first time, if you're really mechanically inclined/adept with tools. In any event, you may have oversimplified things a bit in your post.

But by all means, mrl4ng should take the time to do it himself. He'll understand his gun and its workings a lot better that way.

[Magiccarpetrides]

mrl4ng I have a Nato buttstock for the S12 you can have for free...pm sent.

[Smith]

The second time. Or, the first time, if you're really mechanically inclined/adept with tools. In any event, you may have oversimplified things a bit in your post.

But by all means, mrl4ng should take the time to do it himself. He'll understand his gun and its workings a lot better that way.

Not really. I've done two. Did it all with a Dremel. The first one was a 7.62x39 and it was harder cause the DIY isn't available for it. The 12 is very simple with the DIY. Once the old trigger guard is removed there is no cutting, welding, or fitting. Very simple.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Smith I got your old S12 and that damn thing still dont shoot right

(WOOHOO 2500 posts as of this one lol)

j/k....I think you did a good job

Edited October 27, 2009 by Magiccarpetrides
2500 post count

[Smith]

I'll take it back for evaluation...... Might take a few years.

[Magiccarpetrides]

It does now benefit from a few more tweaks and 2 20rd MD drums

[Guest mrl4ng]

Wow...Thanks for all the info. Looks like a fun project.

(still offering to pay for help)

hahaha