PPS, PF-9, or 709

[Guest 70below]

I'm pondering a slim relatively small carry type weapon. For me personally, I prefer a very slim carry gun. Things that come to mind are the Walther PPS, the Kel-tec PF-9, and the Taurus 709 Slim. I really like Kahr pistols, and I used to have a CW9, but the triggers on them kill me, way too long for my taste without much "feel" to it.

I definitely want to stay at least in the 9mm ballpark, the PPS has the bonus of availability in .40s&w. For my purposes, I'll probably shoot 250-500rds though it for break in and reliability, then about 50rds a month to stay proficient with it. I'm thinking the Kel-tec will probably not be up to the challenge long term. The walther is probably the workhorse, and the Taurus somewhere in the middle. Fittingly enough the prices kind of reflect that opinion.

That said I can buy two of the PF-9's for the price of the PPS, or 1 1/2 of the Taurus.

Whats your opinion of the three? Any very slim 9mm's I've not considered? Which would be your choice of the three?

[BryanP]

The PPS is the bulkiest of the 3. If that's not an issue for you I'd probably go with it.

The Taurus is interesting, but it's a brand new model. I've owned Taurus firearms with no problems, but I don't care who makes it, I'd never buy a gun the first year it's in production. Let someone else work the bugs out.

The Kel Tec is not something that will last you forever, but they have an excellent service policy and as you say you can buy two of them for the price of the PPS. That might not be a bad choice.

[Guest JHatmaker]

I'd go with the PPS. I've held all three of these, and have shot the Kel-Tec and PPS. The Kel-Tec isn't a bad gun, but I just didn't like how it felt when fired. The Taurus Slim felt great as far as ergo's, but not sure how it will fair long term. The PPS gets my vote for the overall package; small, quality, and 007ish!

[cmcmillen]

+1 for the PPS. It's my daily carry and I love it.

[Guest jimdigriz]

I've got the PPS as well. It's basically a single-stack Glock knock-off. Very high quality, and has a good shooting feel to it. It's flat, but if concealability is your main criteria, you may want to choose the Kel Tec. Another thing is, the magazines are overly expensive.

One other thing: Keep it clean. I've noticed in two different guns that if it gets overly dirty, it will have failure-to-go-into-battery malfunctions.

[Guest 70below]

The PPS is bulky but I still consider it to be fairly narrow and sits flat to the body. Its probably the most bulky I would consider carrying regularly with daily wear clothing.

I like the PPS in most ways, I just don't like the price. But, it can be had at a price that's not too ridiculous either. I'd definitely like to hear more about the 709 as they get a reputation one way or the other. Anyone shot one? The PF-9 I think would fill more roles as far as carry goes, and the lack of comfort shooting it wouldnt really bother me in a carry pistol, as long as it gets the job done...it doesn't have to do it in style.

[oldogy]

If the trigger is that important to you, you'll probably not like the PF9. Other than trigger, I like mine just fine. It is not a range gun. I figure if and when I were ever unfortunate enough to really have to use the gun as a tool the trigger would be the last thing I was worried about.

oldogy

[ftncityfatboy]

If the trigger is that important to you, you'll probably not like the PF9. Other than trigger, I like mine just fine. It is not a range gun. I figure if and when I were ever unfortunate enough to really have to use the gun as a tool the trigger would be the last thing I was worried about.

oldogy

echo the trigger pull on the PF-9. I purchased my PF-9 strickly as a BUG for the slender design and ease of concealment. There are guns that are fun to shot and others that are not, the PF-9 is not fun to shoot. Although slim in design it will not be a gun you shoot every time you go to the range. Shoot enough rounds through it to break it in and then maybe once every three or four months just to remember how it feels when firing. I have arthritic wrists and fingers and when I shoot my PF-9 I feel it in a bad way. The recoil on my larger pistols tends to be in an upward motion and easy to return to the target. The recoil on the PF-9 is more straight back if that makes sense. I have not shot the others you mentioned so I have nothing to compare it too other than my Taurus 85 .38 special which i dearly love. I would carry it but I desire more than 5 rounds should I need them. JMTCW

[SavageSig]

If I were you and I needed a gun soon, I'd go ahead and get the PF-9 for now and keep my eye on the Slim. You can always resell the PF9 for a decent price and the 709 will either prove itself or it won't. If you don't need a gun soon, then wait a couple of months for the 709 to develop a history.

[Seaslug]

Dude, I'll remind you that, before you can legally carry a gun, you'll need to have a carry permit. That means that you'll actually have to go down to the DMV, fill out the application, pay the $115, and wait like the rest of us did. You can't just keep taking the class over and over (and over) again and hope that it will magically appear in your mailbox. I swear, your life must be like the movie Groundhog Day...

Anyway, from what I know, you might just consider sticking with the proven reliability of the Glock subcompacts. Here's a link to a thread on another forum with pics of both the Glock 26 and the PPS side-by-side:

Will Ruger beat Glock to a slim 9mm subcompact?? - Page 4 - Glock Talk

You'll notice that the PPS is only marginally slimmer than the G26 for a lot more money, and you're already proficient with the Glock trigger. I'll even go ya' one further and suggest the Glock 39 (same-sized frame, but with the additional stopping power of .45 GAP). Just my ...

Edited October 20, 2009 by Seaslug
anal retentive

[Guest 70below]

Anyway, from what I know, you might just consider sticking with the proven reliability of the Glock subcompacts. Here's a link to a thread on another forum with pics of both the Glock 26 and the PPS side-by-side:

Will Ruger beat Glock to a slim 9mm subcompact?? - Page 4 - Glock Talk

You'll notice that the PPS is only nominally slimmer than the G26 for a lot more money, and you're already proficient with the Glock trigger. I'll even go ya' one further and suggest the Glock 39 (same-sized frame, but with the additional stopping power of .45 GAP). Just my ...

If I'm going to carry a glock, I'll carry a 19 or 23........the extra length and grip area doesn't concern me. It has to feel right and fit to the body right, kinda like you've been telling me about those transvestite hookers you know.

The PPS isn't a LOT slimmer, its just slimmer in the right ways and the right places to keep that blocky bulky feeling down. Don't get me wrong, I love my Glock, but I just think they've dropped the ball a bit in that area.

The feel of the trigger is subjective to me, the reason that Kahr is displeasing to me isn't for the simple fact that its long and doesn't have that Glock reset, but because it lacks "feel" that gives you some feedback when you squeeze and release it. There are pistols that have long trigger pulls that I didn't mind near as much (Ruger LCP, etc).

[redstategunnut]

PM9

[MacGyver]

PPS - hands down. I've carried one in a DM Bullard Dual Carry for about a year and it is a great combo. It is more expensive than the other two, but I feel like it is more reliable, consistent, and will feed Federal HSTs or other defensive hollow points without issue.

[Chris]

PPS is a great gun but I am very unhappy with the mag release. Makes tactical reloads very difficult.

[Guest 70below]

I'm definitely leaning towards the PPS in .40. The mag release doesn't really bother me as its very similar to the P22. I fondled one again at the store the other day........definitely feels about right. I think I could get used to it.

[Guest nascar22]

You can shoot the 709 at Coal Creek since they have it in the rental case.

I have had a great experience so far with my Slim. I have put about 500 rounds of FMJ through it, it is a joy to shoot at the range and carries like a dream in a Crossbreed mini-tuck. It has not had a single failure with with 150 rounds of Critical Defense.

I have tried several different FMJ rounds with it and the only rounds it has problems with is Remington. (FTE). Never a single problem with any other rounds.

[Guest 70below]

You can shoot the 709 at Coal Creek since they have it in the rental case.

I have had a great experience so far with my Slim. I have put about 500 rounds of FMJ through it, it is a joy to shoot at the range and carries like a dream in a Crossbreed mini-tuck. It has not had a single failure with with 150 rounds of Critical Defense.

I have tried several different FMJ rounds with it and the only rounds it has problems with is Remington. (FTE). Never a single problem with any other rounds.

Glad to hear Coal Creek has one! Seems most of the new stuff they don't keep a rental of. I'll have to go give it a try. Thanks!

[Guest mikedwood]

I can speak about the Kel-tec, I have only seen the others and with my G26 and Taurus 905 I don't look at subcompacts much any more.

The PF9 is the 12 ga 18 1/2" barrel with a pistol grip of the sub compact 9mm world. I don't mean to sound like a pansy but I gun shouldn't hurt that much to shoot. As said above the recoil isn't great and also I found that thin little frame dug into the web of my thumb and it wasn't uncomfortable, it flat hurt. I traded mine for my G26 and as far as I can tell that's as good as it gets in a small 9mm.

As for cost, it seems no matter how cheap the gun mags, holsters and ammo are the same price. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

If you wanna got out to ORSA and shoot stuff lemme know.

[Guest 70below]

I'm a glutton for punishment, I shoot full load 500s&w for fun, after a few hot 400gr loads, everything feels like a .22

For the purposes of this gun, it doesn't have to be comfortable or even fun to shoot, it just has to be comfortable to carry, and 100% functional when I need it.

[Guest mikedwood]

I'm a glutton for punishment, I shoot full load 500s&w for fun, after a few hot 400gr loads, everything feels like a .22

For the purposes of this gun, it doesn't have to be comfortable or even fun to shoot, it just has to be comfortable to carry, and 100% functional when I need it.

With all that in mind I was ABOUT to say the Kel-tec PF-9 was custom made for you until the

100% functional when I need it.

I didn't know Glock made a single stack

[hipower]

Personal opinion--1 Taurus 709 Slim

2 PPS

3 PF9

First off, I like Taurus and have owned five or six and still have several. Solid , good shooters and fair prices. The PPS is a fine weapon, I just don't care for it; just not a good fit for me. I have a kel-tec 32 and really like it. Bought a PF9 and really hated it. Terrible trigger, not as accurate as I'd hoped it would be, and really uncomfortable to shoot. If you put 50 rounds thru it in one session, you'll really dislike it.

I know the 709 Slim is very new and there seem to be some complaints about them, but I find it very easy to hold shoot and carry. An at $400, it's quite reasonable. Nice rounded corners and smooth sides make it a good carry. But if you are uncomfortable with a new design, might I suggest looking at a used 3rd gen PT111/140/145. Only slighty larger, more rounds and usually can be had in the $250-300 price range. Or better yet, the Springfield XD9sc. High capacity mags, same size as the PT series and unbelievably accurate and comfortable to shoot. I bought one for my wife and she does quite well with it.

But this is all subjective. Go with whatever you decide fits your hands and needs best. And good luck with whatever you select for your HC class.