1911 Question

[Guest Bluemax]

Guys, I have a question. I have been looking for the right 1911 ( preferably a Colt ) at the right price for a long time. I 've considered 1991"s and even other manufacturers but really want a good old fashioned Series 70 1911 in blue. My question is how does 38 super compare ballisticaly to 45 acp...any thoughts ?

[eapking]

The .45 and the 1911 are made for each other. I'd do some homework on this site before jumping in too quickly:

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[Guest Bluemax]

The .45 and the 1911 are made for each other. I'd do some homework on this site before jumping in too quickly:

1911Forum - Powered by vBulletin

Trust me my friend, I am in no hurry, but have had no experience with 38 super and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts they would like to offer

[timcalhoun]

38 super is a great round for a 1911 and it was basically the first round the 1911 was designed around. JMB made the change to 45 to make a bid for the military contract.

I own 1911's in 38s, 40, and 45. I prefer the 45 for carry and the 40 and 38s for competition.

The M1911 Pistols Organization Home Page

[JeffL]

I can't remember ever seeing .38 Super ammo available for purchase, that could be a consideration for your purchase. I like my Springfield 1911 just fine.

[TripleDigitRide]

I don't see .38 Super in too many places, locally. But it can be had from several online vendors.

Edited October 20, 2009 by TripleDigitRide

[Guest Gun Geek]

I have a 38 super, so far have not really had any problems finding ammo for it. You might not find it at wally world but it is out there. As far as a difference between them the super is like a 9mm on roids pretty much. The super is great for plinking and target shooting but I personally wouldnt use it for self defense due to penetration depth.

Here is some info on the super Firearms - The .38 Super by MarkFreburg

Although I do have a 38 super I have always preferred the .45. The thing I love about my 38 super is shooting it in low/failing light - it puts out an orgasmic display of flame. A lot of it comes down to what you want and what you are going to use it for. Are you going to use it for carry, plinking, target, competition. All these will weigh in on what kind of 1911. Of course any of them can be made to do any of the above with some modifications.

[Guest Gun Geek]

Oh forgot to add, A good 1911 smithy can take a .45 or a .38 super and give it top end of the other caliber that you can switch out when ever. Dont just buy another top end and drop it on and expect it to work. It has to be fitted and verified for lock up etc.

[extremescene]

I figured 38 super would be in short supply but Ammo to Go has plenty... tons more options than .45 in fact. It's been nearly impossible to find .45 on the shelf at very many walmarts and it isn't very available online either.

FMJ Ammo : 38 Super Ammunition To Go

FMJ Ammo : .45 ACP Ammunition To Go

[leroy]

Guys, I have a question. I have been looking for the right 1911 ( preferably a Colt ) at the right price for a long time. I 've considered 1991"s and even other manufacturers but really want a good old fashioned Series 70 1911 in blue. My question is how does 38 super compare ballisticaly to 45 acp...any thoughts ?

Blue:_________

I am old enough to have both 45 cal 1911's and the old colt 38 super 1911's --- early vintage series 70's. The great bane of the OLD 38 super was headspace which caused accuracy problems. A 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. The old 38 super headspaces on a tiny case rim. What happens is that the chamber tolerances get a little sloppy and the rim is too small for the round to reliably catch the rim recess in the barrel of the super. That causes eratic headspacing (the round will drop off this rim and into the barrel a little way) and poor accuracy results. Whenever this happens, accuracy is terrible. The only gun in our gun locker that i can outshoot is a series 70 38 super.

That being said, there is a way to fix this problem. The way we hillbilly yahoos used to fix this problem (which i dont recommend) was to seat the bullets out where they just touched the lands of the barrel -- that fixed the headspace problem -- the pistol would shoot like a house afire -- deadly accurate. The problem was that it was hard on brass. The old supers did not have a fully supported chamber (thats the reason for ramped barrels -- look at the glocks and newer ramped 1911's). That unsupported area allowed the brass to bulge and it would usually rupture on about the second reload. As you can see, that's a bad idea. But all this was done when we were young and ignorant -- it all seemed to be ok at the time. Thankfully, times have changed.

Several aftermarket barrel makers, Barsto being the first of them, make barrels that fixed the head space problem by using a case mouth headspace arrangement similar to the 45 acp. The barrel cost is from about $200 up, depending on vendor. That one change turns the 38 super into a great and accurate pistol. I like the 38 super, but it needs to be handloaded to bring out its true potential. Recoil is milder than the 45 because the bullets are lighter.

There are those who will tell you that the 38 super is a rimless 357 magnum. It aint -- one look at any good reloading manual will reveal that a 38 super is a little more powerful than a plus + 38 special or a 9 mm luger. They will not do what is 357 sig will do. The 38 super is a great choice for a low recoiling round in a 1911 type pistol. It is fun to shoot.

I know that there are practical pistol shooters who will find fault with this post; but they shoot modified pistols with ramped barrels and hotrod the super. That is a whole different ball game from shooting a stock 38 super 1911.

All said, all done, if you can find a super that headspaces on the case mouth with a fully ramped barrel; you will find an accurate, reliable auto pistol. If you find and old Colt; you will find a great old pistol that needs a new barrel to be as accurate and reliable as it should be.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

LEROY

[Guest TNTgill]

It's been nearly impossible to find .45 on the shelf at very many walmarts and it isn't very available online either.

FMJ Ammo : 38 Super Ammunition To Go

FMJ Ammo : .45 ACP Ammunition To Go

I got lucky yesterday at wallyworld and got the only box of .45 WWB I had seen there in months and I go there quite often.

[Guest Gun Geek]

Agreed. But if you want to jump up to the series 80 and a ramped barrel as leroy mentions. Take a look at this one. I have this same pistol but I got rid of the Polished finish and put different grips on it. The pic is a link.

[Derek]

Guys, I have a question. I have been looking for the right 1911 ( preferably a Colt ) at the right price for a long time. I 've considered 1991"s and even other manufacturers but really want a good old fashioned Series 70 1911 in blue. My question is how does 38 super compare ballisticaly to 45 acp...any thoughts ?

The 38 Super is a great handling pistol....but I gotta say I had a 70 series commander in .45 and it shot like a dream. I'd go for a Colt in a .45....no question.

[leroy]

Blue:_________

Guys, I have a question. I have been looking for the right 1911 ( preferably a Colt ) at the right price for a long time. I 've considered 1991"s and even other manufacturers but really want a good old fashioned Series 70 1911 in blue. My question is how does 38 super compare ballisticaly to 45 acp...any thoughts ?

Go here and search the data. It pretty well tells the story.

OpenDNS

Kind regards,

LEROY

[Hidalgo]

Blue:_________

The great bane of the OLD 38 super was headspace which caused accuracy problems. A 45 ACP headspaces on the case mouth. The old 38 super headspaces on a tiny case rim.

All said, all done, if you can find a super that headspaces on the case mouth with a fully ramped barrel; you will find an accurate, reliable auto pistol. If you find and old Colt; you will find a great old pistol that needs a new barrel to be as accurate and reliable as it should be.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

LEROY

Leroy .. that's all great info. But you didn't FINISH the discussion and possibly left the OP (as well as possibly others) a little confused about the headspace issues .......

I'm a .38 Super addict. I know this caliber intimately. The NEW Colt pistols (as well as the Taurus, and others) actually headspace off the rim. They are void of the problems that your post comments on. Of course ... I know you were referring to older 1911s. I just wanted to clear that point up.

Newer Super pistols are as accurate as anything out there in the 1911 platform. Possibly more so than many other calibers.

As for a carry caliber, I trust it totally and have no issues with it in that situation.

Ammunition is "usually" available for it from MidwayUSA as well as other online sellers, but at the present time it is in the same quandary as most ammunition ... none to be had. But that will change as the demand slows back down and the manufacturers catch up. Good ammo that is suitable for defense purposes is available from Winchester (Silvertip HP) and a couple of other names.

If I were going to purchase a Super, I would seriously entertain learning to reload. That is the very best way to bring out the talents of this caliber. It excels in defense use with bullets from 90gr to 125gr (115 XTP bullets being my favorite), and with the proper ammo will also do well with heavier loads.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Hidalgo