Open Carrier Has Police Confrontation (NC)

[Kelemvor]

Not sure if LEOs try to bluff citizens they know are acting lawfully often, but it probably does happen some. I believe LEOs mainly try to bluff citizens when they aren't sure of the law themselves and/or don't want to admit they are wrong or check to see if they maybe are. Most LEOs are not going to tell someone they made a mistake. So it is better to get the citizen to comply with some demand, like giving ID, leaving the area etc... rather than just backing off after engaging in an interaction.

To this LEOs credit he did back up and apparently get clarification, that OC without a permit is legal in NC and that a person is not required to produce ID. Not very many LEOs I've known or have dealt with would have done that, they would have kept demanding ID or making other request, until the person either complies or gets upset and then get them for disorderly conduct.

However....the LEO did not come back and tell the OCer he was right or acting lawfully....of course he had no obligation to either I admit.

+1

I'm not trying to cop bash, I was just giving my input based on my experiences. I have had LEO's give me commands based on incorrect info on more than one occasion (not that I go looking for trouble or anything). With some of those things I find it difficult to believe that the LEO would not know the correct answer about them. So, in essence, when LEO's tell you the wrong thing, sometimes they are misinformed, other times they are trying to bluff you because they are pissed and you are a civilian.

[E4 No More]

I've walked by countless police while armed and never had an encounter like this. Frequently with not one, but two handguns. I can't figure it out.

Yes, but did you do it at an abortion clinic?

This incident was at an abortion clinic. I can see why the guy got a bit tense.

Edited October 19, 2009 by SWJewellTN

[Guest Whiskers]

You're right. In TN you must have your HCP with you whenever you are carrying, OC or CC.

What about when you are on your own property?...... and does it matter if you have it concealed on your own property? Just a question from a sleepy guy.

[Fallguy]

What about when you are on your own property?...... and does it matter if you have it concealed on your own property? Just a question from a sleepy guy.

You don't have to have a permit to carry any firearm on your property, period.

[Kelemvor]

You don't have to have a permit to carry any firearm on your property, period.

Well, you better have some tax stamps if you're seen walking around your yard with your Suppressed, Full Auto SBR.

[Fallguy]

Well, you better have some tax stamps if you're seen walking around your yard with your Suppressed, Full Auto SBR.

LOL...good point....but still don't need a HCP.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

I just dont understand why anyone would want to bring all of that unwanted attention to themselves? Maybe I'm weird?

yea, I guess were both weird.

[Guest superblackrifle]

ha ha ha tooo funny i think i peed

[Fivestring63]

The LEO must not have been too worried about it since he turned his back on him and walked away.

[mk19]

While Open carrying the officer can ask for your ID but you can respectfully recline to show it to him. I Ca even though we have really crappy gun laws, the PD's are trying very hard and fast to educate thier officers about these laws. Especailly with all the libs seeing a gun calling the cops about a man/woman with a gun and half the force showing up to someone just drinking his her coffe. really embarrasing for them. oh and it has to be unloaded LOL.

[DaveTN]

While Open carrying the officer can ask for your ID but you can respectfully decline to show it to him.

In Tennessee you will go to jail.

[TMMT]

In Tennessee you will go to jail.

In Tennessee (especially Nashville) you can go to jail for LAWFULLY carrying both open and concealed.

Metro will charge you with DOC (Disorderly Conduct) in a heart beat if someone sees your gun, panics and calls the police.

Their justification to the Judicial Commissioner for granting the warrant, usually flows along the lines of you creating an offensive situation that caused such an alarm in public, the police were called.

Since you (the arrested one) can't give refuting testimony to the JC during a warrant hearing your at the mercy of the cop who just decides to arrest you and how ever he/she decides to paint the situation.

I've seen it happen first hand while down at CJC securing warrants for my cases and I even asked the officer if the guy had a permit to which he responded "yes, but he still freaked everyone out with his gun".

So you takes your chances when you carry...

Edited October 30, 2009 by TMMT

[DaveTN]

In Tennessee (especially Nashville) you can go to jail for LAWFULLY carrying both open and concealed.

Metro will charge you with DOC (Disorderly Conduct) in a heart beat if someone sees your gun, panics and calls the police.

Wow… that sounds like a big risk. I don’t pretend to know anything about the department policies around here. Is this a department policy? What happens when the DisCon goes to court? Are you a Police Officer?

[TMMT]

Wow… that sounds like a big risk. I don’t pretend to know anything about the department policies around here. Is this a department policy? What happens when the DisCon goes to court? Are you a Police Officer?

I doubt its a department policy, it would be very unusual if it was.

I'm sure the officer tells the same story in court and depending on the presence of a defense attorney will govern just how bad the officers gets raked over the coals so to speak.

f you have the money to fight the arrest, retain good competent counsel then you will most likely win but at what financial cost to you?

I am not a uniformed officer for Metro or any other agency in this state. I am an criminal Investigator for a State Agency.

Edited October 30, 2009 by TMMT

[DaveTN]

So all these arrests being made in Nashville are without merit and the cops get raked over the coals in court? Man… you would think they would learn.

[JayC]

I won't disagree with you that somebody has been charged in this way, but I can't find a single case of conviction in TN for DOC of a HCP permit holder, are you aware of a single case that the DA even tried to move forward, or are the charges getting dropped shortly afterwords?

DOC is a bad law to begin with and we'd do well to get it remove by the legislature.

In Tennessee (especially Nashville) you can go to jail for LAWFULLY carrying both open and concealed.

Metro will charge you with DOC (Disorderly Conduct) in a heart beat if someone sees your gun, panics and calls the police.

Their justification to the Judicial Commissioner for granting the warrant, usually flows along the lines of you creating an offensive situation that caused such an alarm in public, the police were called.

Since you (the arrested one) can't give refuting testimony to the JC during a warrant hearing your at the mercy of the cop who just decides to arrest you and how ever he/she decides to paint the situation.

I've seen it happen first hand while down at CJC securing warrants for my cases and I even asked the officer if the guy had a permit to which he responded "yes, but he still freaked everyone out with his gun".

So you takes your chances when you carry...

[TMMT]

I can't imagine any DA in his or her right mind allowing such a case to move forward. I was just relating an actual arrest and warrant hearing that I witnessed while awaiting my turn in front of the JC.

[Hotshot]

yea, I guess were both weird.

Me too. Who needs it.

[mk19]

Even in Ca one of the most anti gun states they are not doing DOC for people and their guns. When the dispatch recieves a call of a person with a gun they ask what is that person doing with the gun, if the answer is it is in a holster on their belt, then it is just that. An officer would show up to check the but nothing more no arrest or anything unless a law is being broken.

[redfsr]

USMCJG, not A PHONE CALL, BUT A NEXTEL 2-way. You see, that is done so it doesn't show up on the tapes.

That was actually his police radio. They churp like that when you key up the radio. Similar to a nextel but not quiet. I don't see the validity in that accusation anyway that it would keep it off the records. Doesn't really matter. He wasn't as professional as he could have been but I think he handled it pretty well especially since the guy filming comes across as a major d**khead.

[Fallguy]

Why was the guy a d***head just because he didn't want comply with a request he didn't legally have to?

[Kelemvor]

Why was the guy a d***head just because he didn't want comply with a request he didn't legally have to?

Because we live in a society where the status quo is to blindly obey authority figures even if they are acting outside their authority. I mean why wouldn't you do what an leo says? We're trained from youth to comply.

[redfsr]

He was being a d**khead period. He was argumentative and clearly wanted a confrontation. As the officer walks away to check on the law (as we all assume) he follows behind asking numerous times if he was being detained or arrested. The guy simply wanted attention. I believe he wanted more attention than he got from this officer but attention nonetheless.

Is that the kind of person you want setting an example as an open carrier? I hope not.

[USMCJG]

He was being a d**khead period. He was argumentative and clearly wanted a confrontation. As the officer walks away to check on the law (as we all assume) he follows behind asking numerous times if he was being detained or arrested. The guy simply wanted attention. I believe he wanted more attention than he got from this officer but attention nonetheless.

Is that the kind of person you want setting an example as an open carrier? I hope not.

Who did you find to be more argumentative and confrontational, the officer or the citizen? Would you define this officer as a d***head? It seems clear to me that the officer initiated and escalated the confrontation while trying to intimidate the OCer. And then he even went so far as to make up his own laws on the spot. I would consider that to be d***ish behavior.

I don't have a problem with this guy as an example for open carriers based on what is in this video. He may not have obeyed the officer, but he knew and obeyed the law. And he stood up for his rights.

[TMMT]

I agree, the video guy knew his rights and the NC law, which it becomes evident as the video rolls on, the officer didn't and retreated to a cellphone call (most likely) to get clarification.

Again I fault the state for failure to train its peace officers adequately. How can one be expected to enforce the law if they do not know the law?