Open Carrier Has Police Confrontation (NC)

[Guest Swamprunner]

Just goes to show you, there are still LEOs out there who think they can intimidate folks for open carrying.

LiveLeak.com - Gun Bearer Has Pointed Discussion With Police Officer Outside NC Abortion Clinic

The Swamp.

[BlueRaiderFan]

Looks like whoever was on the other end of that call changed his attitude.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

That LEO lost his mind the instant he spotted the handgun!

[BrandonTN]

I think the officer has every right to ask him for his ID to prove his age. Or is there no age requirement to open carry?

[USMCJG]

I think the officer has every right to ask him for his ID to prove his age. Or is there no age requirement to open carry?

First IANAL. But based on what I know, the officer does have every right to ask for ID. But the OCer has no legal duty to produce it. It might have been best to just produce some ID rather than start a storm though. I believe that he does have to give the officer his name and address, if asked. Fortunately, we are not required to have government issued ID cards to show to authorities anytime they feel like detaining us. At least not yet. It seems pretty clear, based on the officer's leaving immediately after the phone call, that he was told that he was incorrect in his handling of the situation.

[Guest Swamprunner]

First IANAL. But based on what I know, the officer does have every right to ask for ID. But the OCer has no legal duty to produce it. It might have been best to just produce some ID rather than start a storm though. I believe that he does have to give the officer his name and address, if asked. Fortunately, we are not required to have government issued ID cards to show to authorities anytime they feel like detaining us. At least not yet. It seems pretty clear, based on the officer's leaving immediately after the phone call, that he was told that he was incorrect in his handling of the situation.

USMCJG, not A PHONE CALL, BUT A NEXTEL 2-way. You see, that is done so it doesn't show up on the tapes.

[Motasyco]

Both sides could have handled it better.

[Steelharp]

I could be wrong, but I believe here in TN you have to have your permit on you any time you are carrying. Don't know what NC law is.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Well it looks like Cpl Miller got new lesson in NC law.

[Oh Shoot]

I could be wrong, but I believe here in TN you have to have your permit on you any time you are carrying. Don't know what NC law is.

NC allows open carry without permit, 18 yrs. old.

Same as Virginia.

- OS

[TGO David]

I've walked by countless police while armed and never had an encounter like this. Frequently with not one, but two handguns. I can't figure it out.

[USMCJG]

I could be wrong, but I believe here in TN you have to have your permit on you any time you are carrying. Don't know what NC law is.

You're right. In TN you must have your HCP with you whenever you are carrying, OC or CC. But, like OhShoot said, in NC, VA, and many other states, OC is legal without a permit.

[Guest jackdm3]

David,

I don't know what you look like, but I think some people look the part (you) and others "look like he don't need to be carrying."

[TGO David]

Nah, I just conceal the heck out of them.

[Guest jackdm3]

I've walked by countless police while armed and never had an encounter like this. Frequently with not one, but two handguns. I can't figure it out.

It sounded like you did a lot of OC, but I thought you CC'd, like me.

I wish my wife's laptop here could play the video. Is it playable or is it her problem?

[Jasongar8]

I just dont understand why anyone would want to bring all of that unwanted attention to themselves? Maybe I'm weird?

[TMMT]

Probably another example of a failure to adequately train law enforcement officers by the state.

It appears the officer walked away and used a cellphone, wonder if he called someone who then set him straight on state law?

[Guest jackdm3]

Maybe they "want to bring all of that wanted attention to themselves"

[Kelemvor]

I'm inclined to believe that sometimes the cop doesn't know the law, but other times they do and just try to bluff people that they are irritated at. This guy just seemed uninformed. I wish TN was a non-permit OC state.

[Jasongar8]

I wish TN was a non-permit OC state.

Why? You can OC now if you have a permit. I think having to have some training and having to do a background check to get a permit is a good thing.

[Fallguy]

Why? You can OC now if you have a permit. I think having to have some training and having to do a background check to get a permit is a good thing.

Yeah, but if you could OC without a permit, you could carry and save a total of $200+

I don't think you should have to have a permit period to OC or CC. Has worked for VT and AK. You can OC at the age of 16 in VT.

I think the state should have to prove you are disqualified, for whatever reason, to carry...not you have to prove you are. But that's just me.....

Edited October 19, 2009 by Fallguy

[JayC]

Would be nice if we could get a VT style open carry law passed here.

[TGO David]

I'm inclined to believe that sometimes the cop doesn't know the law, but other times they do and just try to bluff people that they are irritated at.

Because cops don't have enough to put up with on a daily basis already, and desire to make more of it for themselves right? Seriously? You really believe that? You honestly think that cops go around making crap up so that they can get hammered by Internal Affairs later?

This guy just seemed uninformed.

I wish TN was a non-permit OC state.

Kentucky has been that way for as long as... well.. as long as I can remember. You know how many people I have ever seen open carrying in Kentucky, from birth to my 37'th birthday?

TWO.

One was a farmer. The other was just a random guy. TWO. In thirty seven years. That's not saying you should draw any sort of statistic from my experience, it's just saying that I, as a gun guy who NOTICES guns ... has seen two people open carry in the hundreds of square miles that I actively lived within for 25 years and roamed within for 37 years.

Interesting.

[Guest canynracer]

Kentucky has been that way for as long as... well.. as long as I can remember. You know how many people I have ever seen open carrying in Kentucky, from birth to my 37'th birthday?

TWO.

One was a farmer. The other was just a random guy. TWO. In thirty seven years. That's not saying you should draw any sort of statistic from my experience, it's just saying that I, as a gun guy who NOTICES guns ... has seen two people open carry in the hundreds of square miles that I actively lived within for 25 years and roamed within for 37 years.

Interesting.

:tinfoil:See man...youre just part of the problem...you saw more than that...you are just hiding the facts to fit your own agenda...

OMG I almost got through that witha straight face!!!

[Fallguy]

I'm inclined to believe that sometimes the cop doesn't know the law, but other times they do and just try to bluff people that they are irritated at.

Because cops don't have enough to put up with on a daily basis already, and desire to make more of it for themselves right? Seriously? You really believe that? You honestly think that cops go around making crap up so that they can get hammered by Internal Affairs later?

Not sure if LEOs try to bluff citizens they know are acting lawfully often, but it probably does happen some. I believe LEOs mainly try to bluff citizens when they aren't sure of the law themselves and/or don't want to admit they are wrong or check to see if they maybe are. Most LEOs are not going to tell someone they made a mistake. So it is better to get the citizen to comply with some demand, like giving ID, leaving the area etc... rather than just backing off after engaging in an interaction.

To this LEOs credit he did back up and apparently get clarification, that OC without a permit is legal in NC and that a person is not required to produce ID. Not very many LEOs I've known or have dealt with would have done that, they would have kept demanding ID or making other request, until the person either complies or gets upset and then get them for disorderly conduct.

However....the LEO did not come back and tell the OCer he was right or acting lawfully....of course he had no obligation to either I admit.