So I go to the La Vergne PD...

[Semiauto]

But don't you think that cultivates the "We are above the law" mentality?

Isn't that why cops ignore speed limits both on the job and driving to/from work in their cop cars?

[ngoeser59]

The LaVergne Chief shot and killed another officer? Really? What's the story on that one?

[Guest KarlS]

Was the sign just randomly put there by the Chief? If I'm correct he's a paid public official and does take some orders from city council and mayor. Did they have him post it? Only way you'll get it down is to take it up with them.

Nobody wants to see any place posted. Two sides to this story. The ones that are POed cause it's posted and the ones who don't want to make it worse. Anti's love controversy. Do it the right way or swallow pride and abide. Sucks either way.

[wjh2657]

Yeah, do it! That will free up some ammo for the rest of us because you won't need it for a while.

[Guest TackleberryTom]

guys, I hate to even chime in but here it goes..... why is this all the sudden an issue?

If caught in the police dept. with the gun, your going to have a really, really, really bad day. If anyone wants to test my theory, go ahead and use that "open carry is better" idea thats popular around here while your at it.

If your so scared you have to have your gun on you for the what, 15 minutes it would take to get a police report... your not living right. You should also be too scared to fly, drive a car at night, or cross a street too.

Police Dept's are considered "secure" areas, most of the time your on camera and have to get buzzed in and out. The police Dept. is probably the last place your going to need your gun. I'd treat it like any other Govt. building and leave it in the car, get in and out and conclude your business as soon as possible.

If you cant do that, then send a family member or use the mail.

I don't drink that

In Daytona Beach Fl, where I grew up, the police dept. parking lot was one of the most dangerous places in the area. That parking lot had it's own crime rate. If HCPs cant carry there, then the LEOs should not either. The gun locker idea is prob OK though.

[JayC]

agreed, its the difference in the part of the state were refering to. I worked for several rural county dept's over the years and they are laid back, these urban Dept's however arent. If they post, and you choose to ignore it and carry, your up a creek.

I'm sorry but LaVergne isn't a urban department, it's a small town of about 30,000 people that happens to be close to Nashville, suburban at best....

There are other PD's with similar distance from Nashville who aren't posted...

It's a smoke screen to say some don't need to but others do... The TRUTH is that the risk of a HCP coming into the station and shooting people is no higher in either case.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

I'm sorry but LaVergne isn't a urban department, it's a small town of about 30,000 people that happens to be close to Nashville, suburban at best....

There are other PD's with similar distance from Nashville who aren't posted...

It's a smoke screen to say some don't need to but others do... The TRUTH is that the risk of a HCP coming into the station and shooting people is no higher in either case.

However from a crime rate point of view, and it being very close to Nashville I'd consider it more of an Urban Dept. then a rural one.

To answer your question, most of the smaller Dept. have persons of interest come in while doing investigations, and some times have prisoners in and out as well. The chance of a HCP holder being in a close proximity to a prisoner or suspect and being disarmed is an issue. Hcp holders dont get retention training and can be disarmed quicker then a trained police officer. You add that with the desire for some to carry openly, and you have an issue most LEO's will have a problem with.

[JayC]

However from a crime rate point of view, and it being very close to Nashville I'd consider it more of an Urban Dept. then a rural one.

To answer your question, most of the smaller Dept. have persons of interest come in while doing investigations, and some times have prisoners in and out as well. The chance of a HCP holder being in a close proximity to a prisoner or suspect and being disarmed is an issue. Hcp holders dont get retention training and can be disarmed quicker then a trained police officer. You add that with the desire for some to carry openly, and you have an issue most LEO's will have a problem with.

There are other PD's in similar proximity to Nashville that aren't posted. I respect needing to make areas where prisoners or persons of interest are being held off limits to both LEO and HCP carry for safety, but the lobby of the police station and city hall isn't any more dangerous to carry than any public business IMHO. At the very least they should provide a gun locker so the public doesn't have to go to and from the department unprotected. (I seem to recall a state recently proposing or passing such a law, maybe we need to look into that in TN).

[Fallguy]

I can't remember which state it is that has the gun locker law....and it actually applies to any and all places that post against carry, but I also remember reading it is not really enforced.

[Guest db99wj]

I don't agree or I guess understand the problem. Your gun is not a security blanket. You can go places without it. Other factors will help you stay safe, your awareness, how you carry yourself, etc. So they post that you can't carry. There perogative, they feel that the mixing of permit holders and suspects/folks being questioned, etc is not a good idea due to a possible issue, then so be it. While it would be nice if they offered lockers, most don't. Locker or no locker, I've seen some folks handle their handguns, and would prefer they didn't do it anywhere! You know who i'm talking about, the guy at the range, that you can't wait until he finishes and leaves...they are out there.

Getting robbed or car broken into in the police department parking lots...really. I live in Memphis and have never heard or read about stuff like that happening. Never happened, couldn't say that, never will happen..couldn't say that. Would be very rare..I could go with that.

Just a few thoughts.

[JayC]

By using your logic, we don't need to carry in parks, or anywhere else for that matter because we don't need firearms to protect ourselves.

How about we say this instead, my safety and the safety of my family is my responsibility and as such it should be my choice on what level of protection is need for a given situation not anybody elses?

I don't have a problem with a private business posting, I feel they have private property rights and should be allowed to choose who can and can't come onto their property, and frankly the market allows me to do business with somebody else if you do choose to post.

The problem here is that we're talking about a government entity which our tax dollars pay for, and they have a monopoly on the service they provide. We can't just go somewhere else and get service if they post.

I also understand that certain areas need to be posted for all persons carrying a gun, and law abiding citizens should have the same options to store their weapon in a gun locker as the civil servant working there does.

I don't agree or I guess understand the problem. Your gun is not a security blanket. You can go places without it. Other factors will help you stay safe, your awareness, how you carry yourself, etc. So they post that you can't carry. There perogative, they feel that the mixing of permit holders and suspects/folks being questioned, etc is not a good idea due to a possible issue, then so be it. While it would be nice if they offered lockers, most don't. Locker or no locker, I've seen some folks handle their handguns, and would prefer they didn't do it anywhere! You know who i'm talking about, the guy at the range, that you can't wait until he finishes and leaves...they are out there.

Getting robbed or car broken into in the police department parking lots...really. I live in Memphis and have never heard or read about stuff like that happening. Never happened, couldn't say that, never will happen..couldn't say that. Would be very rare..I could go with that.

Just a few thoughts.

[JayC]

I can't remember which state it is that has the gun locker law....and it actually applies to any and all places that post against carry, but I also remember reading it is not really enforced.

Well my understanding of the law is if the place didn't have said lockers, then all postings where not legally biding. I'm all for that kind of enforcement

[Guest mustangdave]

Steve....I can't believe your thread has gone on for SEVEN pages:tinfoil:...so when are you going to stroll "IN"....I gotcher back...

[GLOCKMEISTER]

There are other PD's in similar proximity to Nashville that aren't posted.

wow, then I stand corrected. I thought they all were, actually pretty sure they all were. So which PD's are you refering too?

[E4 No More]

Steve....I can't believe your thread has gone on for SEVEN pages:tinfoil:...so when are you going to stroll "IN"....I gotcher back...

I'm not. I just wanted to see how many of the "Ignore the signs if'n they ain't legal" guys, or the "I'd go talk to the owner" guys, would chime-up.

[MikeW]

I'm not. I just wanted to see how many of the "Ignore the signs if'n they ain't legal" guys, or the "I'd go talk to the owner" guys, would chime-up.

mission accomplished

[Guest mustangdave]

^^ what Mike said...

[Guest db99wj]

By using your logic, we don't need to carry in parks, or anywhere else for that matter because we don't need firearms to protect ourselves.

How about we say this instead, my safety and the safety of my family is my responsibility and as such it should be my choice on what level of protection is need for a given situation not anybody elses?

I don't have a problem with a private business posting, I feel they have private property rights and should be allowed to choose who can and can't come onto their property, and frankly the market allows me to do business with somebody else if you do choose to post.

The problem here is that we're talking about a government entity which our tax dollars pay for, and they have a monopoly on the service they provide. We can't just go somewhere else and get service if they post.

I also understand that certain areas need to be posted for all persons carrying a gun, and law abiding citizens should have the same options to store their weapon in a gun locker as the civil servant working there does.

My point goes to the fact that there are places we can't carry legally. In a perfect world, these rules and laws would not be there, we could carry everywhere we please. As it has been said before, our "right" to carry isn't a right anymore, it is a privilege that we go through a process for and pay for. With that privilege we are limited in the amount of places we can carry. We pay for federal owned property as well, and can't carry at many of those places.

The other part of my point is that we, need not rely on the gun and have all our faith in that gun, the "I've got a gun, I can't be stopped" mentality, we have to be able to protect ourselves by any means possible, a gun is just one of the many tools we have.

[JayC]

My point goes to the fact that there are places we can't carry legally. In a perfect world, these rules and laws would not be there, we could carry everywhere we please. As it has been said before, our "right" to carry isn't a right anymore, it is a privilege that we go through a process for and pay for. With that privilege we are limited in the amount of places we can carry. We pay for federal owned property as well, and can't carry at many of those places.

The other part of my point is that we, need not rely on the gun and have all our faith in that gun, the "I've got a gun, I can't be stopped" mentality, we have to be able to protect ourselves by any means possible, a gun is just one of the many tools we have.

Well the law currently allows local governments to post via 39-17-1359, but by default police departments and city halls are not off limits per state law. Some public servant has posted the site. This is a completely different point than say where it's illegal to carry into a courtroom which is clearly prohibited by state law.

The difference between the two is HUGE, just like a business which chooses to post, we can and some would say should put pressure to remove the posting.

Let me be clear I'm not recommending you carry into the PD if not posted legally, nor am I recommending that you act like a crazy person over it. But I do recommend if you live in LaVernge to write your CLEO and request they change their policy or provide gun lockers to law abiding citizens to come and go from city hall, I would then take the written negative response to your city councilmembers and press them to change the policy or take the hit for being labeled anti-2nd in any upcoming election.

It's called pushing for change and there is nothing wrong with being a concerned citizen who complains about silliness.

And I would document all of this to your state legislators as well, there *will* be a law coming up this next session to remove the ability for local parks to be posted, and hopefully it will pass, it wouldn't be such a bad thing if somebody inserted an amendment to remove all local and county governments from be able to use 39-17-1359 now would it? And for the record, where I live, I'm going to be volunteering my time to throw my bum of a house legislator out of office this election cycle because she voted against Restaurant carry (Harwell - R)... So I'm following my own advice.

Also, I'm more than willing to work with any local group who wants help setting up websites to highlight anti-2nd amendment city and county politicians who need to get thrown out in 2010... Many have gone on the record for the first time as being anti-2nd amendment, and we should told their feet to the fire this time around.

[dralarms]

Well the law currently allows local governments to post via 39-17-1359, but by default police departments and city halls are not off limits per state law. Some public servant has posted the site. This is a completely different point than say where it's illegal to carry into a courtroom which is clearly prohibited by state law.

The difference between the two is HUGE, just like a business which chooses to post, we can and some would say should put pressure to remove the posting.

Let me be clear I'm not recommending you carry into the PD if not posted legally, nor am I recommending that you act like a crazy person over it. But I do recommend if you live in LaVernge to write your CLEO and request they change their policy or provide gun lockers to law abiding citizens to come and go from city hall, I would then take the written negative response to your city councilmembers and press them to change the policy or take the hit for being labeled anti-2nd in any upcoming election.

It's called pushing for change and there is nothing wrong with being a concerned citizen who complains about silliness.

And I would document all of this to your state legislators as well, there *will* be a law coming up this next session to remove the ability for local parks to be posted, and hopefully it will pass, it wouldn't be such a bad thing if somebody inserted an amendment to remove all local and county governments from be able to use 39-17-1359 now would it? And for the record, where I live, I'm going to be volunteering my time to throw my bum of a house legislator out of office this election cycle because she voted against Restaurant carry (Harwell - R)... So I'm following my own advice.

Also, I'm more than willing to work with any local group who wants help setting up websites to highlight anti-2nd amendment city and county politicians who need to get thrown out in 2010... Many have gone on the record for the first time as being anti-2nd amendment, and we should told their feet to the fire this time around.

I'm not sure but I thought unless court "was in session" it was not illegal to carry in a courtroom. Am I misinformed?

[Oh Shoot]

I'm not sure but I thought unless court "was in session" it was not illegal to carry in a courtroom. Am I misinformed?

Technically, yep, says "...while inside any room in which judicial proceedings are in progress..."

Do you often go into court rooms when court is NOT in session?

Doesn't matter in Knoxville, as the courtrooms are all in a posted building to begin with.

- OS

[Guest jackdm3]

I was going to ask ya'll if ya'll were still on this thread, but I see ya'll are fighting the good fight. ................. Ya'll!

[Fallguy]

Technically, yep, says "...while inside any room in which judicial proceedings are in progress..."

Do you often go into court rooms when court is NOT in session?

Doesn't matter in Knoxville, as the courtrooms are all in a posted building to begin with.

- OS

That's about it....can carry in a courtroom during a county commision meeting, etc..

Couldn't legally carry in a hospital room (or any other room) if there was a hearing going on at the time.

[dralarms]

Technically, yep, says "...while inside any room in which judicial proceedings are in progress..."

Do you often go into court rooms when court is NOT in session?

Doesn't matter in Knoxville, as the courtrooms are all in a posted building to begin with.

- OS

Nope and don't plan on being there when court is in session either.

[Guest canynracer]

By using your logic, we don't need to carry in parks, or anywhere else for that matter because we don't need firearms to protect ourselves.

How about we say this instead, my safety and the safety of my family is my responsibility and as such it should be my choice on what level of protection is need for a given situation not anybody elses?

I don't have a problem with a private business posting, I feel they have private property rights and should be allowed to choose who can and can't come onto their property, and frankly the market allows me to do business with somebody else if you do choose to post.

The problem here is that we're talking about a government entity which our tax dollars pay for, and they have a monopoly on the service they provide. We can't just go somewhere else and get service if they post.

I also understand that certain areas need to be posted for all persons carrying a gun, and law abiding citizens should have the same options to store their weapon in a gun locker as the civil servant working there does.

Soooo, are you saying YOU are going to be the one that goes and points out the incorrect sign?

or are you the one that is going to carry anyway cause the sign isnt legal?

that was the question of this thread.