Winchester 9mm JHP for defense?

[Guest nascar22]

Anybody use the Winchester 9mm JHP 147gr self defense round? (USA9JHP2)

I noticed it was starting to become available again and was thinking of trying it. My main question pertains to using it in a shorter barrel gun (3.2 inch). The research I have seen with most ammo pertains to using 4 inch barrels. How much difference in velocity would one expect going down to a 3.2 inch barrel?

[Oh Shoot]

Anybody use the Winchester 9mm JHP 147gr self defense round? (USA9JHP2)

I've never shot anybody with it, but I've shot it.

How much difference in velocity would one expect going down to a 3.2 inch barrel?

Can't give tech answer, and I don't have a chrono, but feel safe to posit that it's not enough to make much diff on a bad guy!

While there are LOTS of SD defense rounds that are rated way over this brand, I have no doubt it will do its job if you do yours. Just shoot enough of it to make sure it feeds reliably in your piece, there are reportedly some pistols that don't like 147 gr.

- OS

[strickj]

I'm very picky about what I carry in 9mm,and will only carry Gold Dots.

Other calibers...not so much.

As far as the affectivness of Winchester in a SD sittuation,I actually have a fellow gimp friend that was shot with a Win in 38spl(put him in a wheelchair),and he will tell you that it works

Now 38spl is a bit different then a 9 though,so I'm not too confident that it will perform well in that arena...

[Guest Funnyrunner]

I like Corbon PowerBall in any caliber. Haven't tried the Winchester stuff myself.

[kwe45919]

The original intent of the 147-gr. 9mm load, which I think was pioneered by Winchester/Olin was to provide better grouping potiental. I remember something about the a military/seal team needing something better for more precise groupings at longer distances. The 147gr worked well in suppressed pistols but fell flat in short or ported barrels because they reduced the already-subsonic 147-gr. bullet to a little over 600 ft/sec....which ain't much.

Does this sound familiar to anyone??

I've shot a few different 147gr out of my G26....and I really don't like any of them. I personally like the 124gr bullet.....Just me though...

Anyways....I was using Horndy 115gr Critical Defense......BUT since I got a hold of some 124gr Win Ranger, that's what's in my G26. My G19 at home is loaded with MagSafe....gives the wife a piece of mind.

Edited October 4, 2009 by kwe45919

[eapking]

124gr max in a small 9mm like the G26 (IMO).

[JeffL]

In a G26 I'd probably carry 124gr +P Gold Dots, Ranger T's, or HSTs. I have 124gr normal pressure Gold Dots in my XDm w/ 4.5in barrel.

[molonlabetn]

It's going to be better than FMJ... how much better, I dunno. It's gonna be subsonic though, which may be desireable for home-defense due to lower noise. Either way, it puts lead on a bad guy.

[Guest mosinon]

It's going to be better than FMJ... how much better, I dunno. It's gonna be subsonic though, which may be desireable for home-defense due to lower noise. Either way, it puts lead on a bad guy.

Color me stupid but why would you chase lower noise for home defense?

I'm sure I'm missing something but just thinking about it I'd imagine sound would not be one of my top considerations.

That said I'm sure there is good reasoning behind the thought.

[kwe45919]

It's going to be better than FMJ... how much better, I dunno. It's gonna be subsonic though, which may be desireable for home-defense due to lower noise. Either way, it puts lead on a bad guy.

There's not gona be a difference in noise in side a house...trust me, if either go bang....you won't have to worry about anything other than your ears....

[Guest hi im drummer03]

I would go withj the Remington Gold sabres hands down. Every dealer i have went to in Knoxville and surrounded counties say to use them. You can get the bonded rounds at Craigs Firearms in Seymour,TN. Cheaper than anywhere in town on the normal ones...

[Guest Patty]

It's good ammo, use it. I will work just fine.

[Guest Matchguy]

Here's an article written by Steve Camp on the general performance of premium 147 grain ammo in the Browning Hi Power, which should get you started with an evaluation of the ammo you're asking about, or at least of the bullet weight.

The Browning Hi Power and 147

The fact that your WW load may be better than hardball does not necessarily mean that it is a reliable defensive round. For decades, more policemen were killed in this country by the .22 long rifle cartridge than any other, yet I've never heard of the military or any police agencies adopting it as their defensive round.

The 9mm remains a "load-dependent" cartridge, meaning that its defensive potential relies strictly on the performance of the load fired in it, so you are totally correct in questioning the performance of your WW load. As for me, I carry only loads with proven track records in my 9mm's, which is why I carry the standard load of the NYPD and other police agencies, the Speer 124 grain +P Gold Dot JHP.

Any port in a storm, neighbor, and if the WW 147 grain stuff is all you can get, go with it. But if you can find better performing ammo in the 9mm caliber you should really go for that instead. My personal suspicion is that Winchester will not be using their best perfoming bullet in low priced USA ammunition, and bullet performance is critical in the 9mm as I said earlier. Best wishes.

MG

Edited October 11, 2009 by Matchguy

[Guest nascar22]

The 147gr worked well in suppressed pistols but fell flat in short or ported barrels because they reduced the already-subsonic 147-gr. bullet to a little over 600 ft/sec....which ain't much.

This was my worry. I can't seem to find any test results of penetration into gel covered with denim. Better than nothing but better choices out there i believe.

[Guest nascar22]

As for me, I carry only loads with proven track records in my 9mm's, which is why I carry the standard load of the NYPD and other police agencies, the Speer 124 grain +P Gold Dot JHP.

Any port in a storm, neighbor, and if the WW 147 grain stuff is all you can get, go with it. But if you can find better performing ammo in the 9mm caliber you should really go for that instead.

MG

It seems a lot of people like the Gold Dots. So much so that I have not been able to find them. I was able to locate some Critical Defense. I have heard great things about them and decided to give them a chance in my BUG. I should be able to get to the range this week.

[Semiauto]

I would use it in my suppressor, but not for general carry. The 9mm round needs velocity to open a JHP, and a subsonic round will not open the bullet the same. The 9mm Black Talon did not perform well. You should search for a +p JHP because the length of your barrel will affect the velocity and performance of the round.

[Guest Matchguy]

I would use it in my suppressor, but not for general carry. The 9mm round needs velocity to open a JHP, and a subsonic round will not open the bullet the same. The 9mm Black Talon did not perform well. You should search for a +p JHP because the length of your barrel will affect the velocity and performance of the round.

+1. Also, some companies are beginning to make JHP loads for short barrelled guns, and if you can find any of that stuff made for the 9mm that would eliminate any questions about bullet performance in your gun.

MG

[Guest Patty]

Here's an article written by Steve Camp on the general performance of premium 147 grain ammo in the Browning Hi Power, which should get you started with an evaluation of the ammo you're asking about, or at least of the bullet weight.

The Browning Hi Power and 147

The fact that your WW load may be better than hardball does not necessarily mean that it is a reliable defensive round. For decades, more policemen were killed in this country by the .22 long rifle cartridge than any other, yet I've never heard of the military or any police agencies adopting it as their defensive round.

The 9mm remains a "load-dependent" cartridge, meaning that its defensive potential relies strictly on the performance of the load fired in it, so you are totally correct in questioning the performance of your WW load. As for me, I carry only loads with proven track records in my 9mm's, which is why I carry the standard load of the NYPD and other police agencies, the Speer 124 grain +P Gold Dot JHP.

Any port in a storm, neighbor, and if the WW 147 grain stuff is all you can get, go with it. But if you can find better performing ammo in the 9mm caliber you should really go for that instead. My personal suspicion is that Winchester will not be using their best perfoming bullet in low priced USA ammunition, and bullet performance is critical in the 9mm as I said earlier. Best wishes.

MG

It appears that the article is supporting the use of a 147 grain.

[Guest HexHead]

This was my worry. I can't seem to find any test results of penetration into gel covered with denim. Better than nothing but better choices out there i believe.

If that's your criteria, the Hornady Critical Defense round should probably be your choice. I use it in my .380, .38 snubby and my G26. The lighter weight bullet (115 gr in 9mm) will give it more velocity out of a shorter barrel, and it also uses a low flash powder.

Tests have shown it to have very consistent expansion, not getting clogged passing through denim or leather.

[molonlabetn]

Color me stupid but why would you chase lower noise for home defense?

I'm sure I'm missing something but just thinking about it I'd imagine sound would not be one of my top considerations.

That said I'm sure there is good reasoning behind the thought.

Subsonic ammunition does produce fewer decibels. My thought is the difference between 160db and 150db may decrease my hearing recovery time in case I need it.

[Guest Matchguy]

Every military and police firearms instructor I've ever known quoted the same problem in a firefight........the most wonderful sound in the world once the shooting starts is the sound of your own gun firing....again and again and again and again and again and again...................

MG