RELOADERS: I would like your input on loading 45acp-- 230 gr JHP using Win-231

[Guest tnvolfan]

Formula history: I started out using 5.1 gr, Win-231 on 230gr JHP bullet for a 45acp. The COL is 1.260". I obtained this formula from www.Handloads.Com. This load shoots well but does not have quite the punch that the standard Winchester target ammo has for their 230 gr FMJ 45acp bullet. I was a little disappointed.

Calguns.net has a "MrNiceGuy" using loads of 5.1 and 5.3 for a 230 gr bullet, but not above 5.3.

The High Road has "Walkalong" who uses 5.5 gr of W-231 as a good all-around 45acp load. Someone named "Crimp" on the same forum said he uses 5.8 gr of Win-231 with a COL of 1.260."

I HAVE to use the W-231, because I bought 5 pounds of this stuff and I think it's just a matter of getting the formula right.

For my next load, I plan to go to 5.5 gr at 1.260" and if I still want more punch, go to 5.8gr." It's just that 5.1gr was the max load listed on Handloads.Com, and 5.3gr is the max load on the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center for W-231 powder for this bullet and cartridge. I have heard that liability issues keep redefining these maximum powder loads lower and lower with every passing year . . . . can you 45acp reloaders please comment on my future plans?

[Guest Mugster]

TGO has mugster that will tell you to stick with the manual.

Usually what i do is work up a load starting someplace off the bottom and working up. In handgun I do that in .2gr increments for 3 shots each load level, which is a pain. But once you've done it and clocked it on a chrono, you re-use the info.

Try 2 things. First, increase the crimp a smidgeon on the 5.1 loading. That will increase the pressure. If that doesn't do it/your accuracy goes south, then try the max load.

I'm not saying i've never loaded over max, because I have. If you have to ask to feel good about it, you probably need to load a bit more and up your experience level before you try it. You'll need to look for and be able to identify pressure signs as you move up in power.

[buck1032]

I just looked through some of my books and some of my loads. The Speer 11th edition list's 230 TMJ, W231 at 5.6 gr on the starting side and up to 6.2 gr on the high side. With that said I have went up to 6.1 in my Kimber with no problems. I didnt chrony any of them, but I liked the feel of 6.0 gr. YMMV

Buck

[9teeneleven]

I don't think most people can get factory velocities out of handloads can they?

I am a newbie at the reloading, but I am using the same setup as you. I started with a 5.5gr load with an O.A.L. of 1.23 . After going through a bunch of loads, I use 5.5gr for a P220 and O.A.L. of 1.25, and 5.1gr with the same O.A.L. for 1911. For whatever reason (even though it is not a light load) the 5.1 will not reliably run the Sig, which is new, and has a stronger recoil spring. I actually like practicing with the lighter feel, I am much more accurate, so it teaches me not to flinch as much.

Edited October 1, 2009 by 9teeneleven

[USMCJG]

I checked a couple of my books and here's what they say:

Hodgdon(they make W231)-

230gr. Hornady FMJ FP(Flat Point, profile very similar to a JHP)- 4.2-5.3gr. W231, 1.200"COAL, 751-832 FPS, 13,800CUP-16,800 CUP

Sierra-

230gr. Sierra JHP- 4.9-5.7gr. W231, 1.210"COAL, 750-850 FPS, pressures not listed

5.3gr. of W231 is the max. charge listed by Hodgdon, but that is with a COAL of 1.200". I noticed that your COAL is 1.260". It doesn't sound like much, but it would make a fairly significant difference in pressure which would effect velocity and percieved power(recoil). I would recommend dropping down to 5.1gr. of W231 and reducing COAL to 1.200"-1.210" and see how that works out(it will still be "lighter" than the typical factory target load). Then you can start bumping the charge up from there.

There is nothing wrong with light target loads though, as long as you don't have functioning problems. I prefer to load my target ammunition on the lighter end of the spectrum. It allows for faster follow ups, and is just more fun for me to shoot. As always, it is never a good idea to exceed the loads listed in reliable published data.

[USMCJG]

I don't think most people can get factory velocities out of handloads can they?

Yes. You can easily get velocities well in excess of factory loadings. You can also get pressures well in excess of those for which the firearm and cartridge were designed. But should you?

Be careful and don't get caught up in the "my velocity is higher than yours" game.

[Guest tnvolfan]

Are the formulas used to produce the factory target loads published anywhere (that I just can't seem to find) or is that, understandably, considered proprietary data, and just not listed for the public? It's not that I'm trying to get a higher velocity, like I said earlier, I was just trying to get a similar feel to factory ammo in the reloads I create. It would be a really good data point, though, if I could get a measure on the velocity. Dropping the COL is also a very good idea instead of using more and more powder.

[leroy]

Formula history: I started out using 5.1 gr, Win-231 on 230gr JHP bullet for a 45acp. The COL is 1.260". I obtained this formula from www.Handloads.Com. This load shoots well but does not have quite the punch that the standard Winchester target ammo has for their 230 gr FMJ 45acp bullet. I was a little disappointed.

.....I HAVE to use the W-231, because I bought 5 pounds of this stuff and I think it's just a matter of getting the formula right.

For my next load, I plan to go to 5.5 gr at 1.260" and if I still want more punch, go to 5.8gr." It's just that 5.1gr was the max load listed on Handloads.Com, and 5.3gr is the max load on the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center for W-231 powder for this bullet and cartridge. I have heard that liability issues keep redefining these maximum powder loads lower and lower with every passing year . . . . can you 45acp reloaders please comment on my future plans?

TnVolfan:___________

Do you or a buddy have a chronograph? That is the real way to tell how well your loads are doing (outside the accuracy thing). I'ts hard to tell what is going on velocity wise from interpolating published data, because test barrels are worn pretty bad most of the time. The 5.3 grain W 231 load and a taper crimp should be stout enough to give you a pretty good load. See the data below from the latest Hogdon Manual for 45ACP:

851 15,700 CUP

231 5.3 832 16,800 CUP

HP-38 5.3 832 16,800 CUP

SR 7625 6.0 848 16,600 CUP

PB 5.0 807 16,500 CUP

Titegroup 4.8 818 16,700 CUP

700-X 4.9 842 16,600 CUP

Clays 4.0 732 17,000 CUP

I wouldnt batter my 45 up with loads heavier than the 5.3 grains of 231. It pretty well looks like the old time hardball load to me.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

LEROY

[USMCJG]

Are the formulas used to produce the factory target loads published anywhere (that I just can't seem to find) or is that, understandably, considered proprietary data, and just not listed for the public? It's not that I'm trying to get a higher velocity, like I said earlier, I was just trying to get a similar feel to factory ammo in the reloads I create. It would be a really good data point, though, if I could get a measure on the velocity. Dropping the COL is also a very good idea instead of using more and more powder.

I'd recommend you reduce your COAL to 1.200" and load ten rounds with the 5.1gr. charge. If that load doesn't give the desired results and doesn't show any signs of excessive pressure, then try a 5.3gr. charge. If that load still doesn't give the desired results and does not show signs of excessive pressure, then try a 5.5gr. charge. I would be very cautious about going beyond a 5.5gr. charge, I'm not saying that you can't, just be very cautious when pushing the upper limits of the load data. Inspect your cartridge cases very carefully for any signs of excessive pressure at every step. I know it's a bit tedious, but once you find what works safely and to your satisfaction you can get on with shooting and not have to worry about the load development part so much anymore. Although it's always a good idea to back down a little when you change any components, even a different lot of the same powder, and work your way back up. This is another reason I like to load my target ammunition on the lighter side, because I'm kinda lazy.

Here is a link to a pretty decent video that will show you some of the indicators that you have an excessive pressure problem:

[Guest Mugster]

Are the formulas used to produce the factory target loads published anywhere (that I just can't seem to find) or is that, understandably, considered proprietary data, and just not listed for the public? It's not that I'm trying to get a higher velocity, like I said earlier, I was just trying to get a similar feel to factory ammo in the reloads I create. It would be a really good data point, though, if I could get a measure on the velocity. Dropping the COL is also a very good idea instead of using more and more powder.

The factory's use bulk powders that they tune per lot of ammo, because the burn rate varies. Well, at least thats what i've always read. These formulations that you can buy in small 1 and 5 pound jugs are generally much better powder than most factory ammo uses.

The only way to dupe a factory loading is to clock it and then tune your powder charge to match it. At least thats the only way I know.

If you want performance, I've had real good luck with accurate #5 in .45 acp. You can load it up about as hot as you want it and stay under max.

[9teeneleven]

With regards to primer flow, I've never had it on a handload, but do get it on Blazer brass .45.

[Guest tnvolfan]

Leroy, your idea about a chronograph is a good one -- I'm going to try to borrow one. Hopefully, I'll be able to do that. I want to say a special BIG thank you to USMCJG for telling me about ammosmith.com -- I never knew about that website -- it has some great videos that you can access. That is going to be a very good source of info. After Buck1032 checked his Speer manual #11, I found many different editions of Speer manuals for sale on Amazon.com -- the prices are pretty good, too. I just ordered some books from Amazon - looks like I'll be ordering some more! I also want to thank Mugster and Mr.Nick for their input -- I've swapped ammo with Mr. Nick before, who I bet is loading 45s because he's sick and tired of not being able to find it! In this reloading game, you swap trying to find ammo with trying to find primers, bullets, powder, and maybe some "once-used brass." Fortunately, I have been able to collect and trade brass with friends -- which helps cut costs tremendously! I've even traded 380 bullets for small pistol primers. You do withatever works! Thanks, again, everyone!

[Guest Grout]

Try 5.4 grs at an OAL of 1.250.Always been a good load for me.