Local governments inspecting powder and supplies

[Guest redbarron06]

I just noticed this posted on the TFA website. So far the reports are coming from Cheatham county but it may also be happeneing in Davidson. Are you guys in other parts of the state hearing anything about this?

We have had a report this date of local government codes inspectors going to houses asking whether the individual has black powder and/or smokeless. If the individual indicates that they do, then the local inspectors want to know how much and to inspect the storage. Apparently, the local governments have and/or are adding limits on the amount of black powder and smokeless powder that can be stored at an individual, non-commercial residence.

[Rightwinger]

That's BS. Glad I got rid of all my loading supplies years ago (wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more)

[56FordGuy]

You know, I wonder if this is spurred on more by the 'gun rush' around the election than any sort of KGB type crackdown. I could understand the fire marshal being concerned about some 'gun nut' he saw on TV with tons of powder in the basement.

Granted, that's none of their business, but I'm not convinced that there's any great nefarious government crackdown at work in this specific situation. Misguided, and sticking their nose where it doesn't belong for sure, but I think gun owners, with the help of the media, might have brought this on ourself.

That said, I really don't have anything stocked away. Can't find any to buy!

[DavidD]

Any idea what the limits are?

[Guest redbarron06]

Any idea what the limits are?

limits? I had no idea there were limits. I want to know do they have a warrent and if they dont can I have them arrested for tresspassing?

[Rightwinger]

So what about those guys that were buying up large quantities of gas when the price spiked last year and kept a lot of 5 or 10 gallon cans in their garage or shop? Or geez, the folks that have like 20 gallons of flammable paint at their home. You shade tree mechanics got starter fluid and brake cleaner by the case somewhere?

If its all in the public safety mode, they should be going door to door everywhere right? Well that ain't flying either. How the heck would they even know if you are a possible reloader anyway? Local informants in the neighborhood? I would need new neighbors.

I'll just say no.

[USMCJG]

Any idea what the limits are?

I believe that most municipalities use the National Fire Protection Association code to determine how much powder can be stored in a private residence, and how it must be stored. From the NFPA code:

10-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg) may be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), may be stored in residences if kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness.

I believe that keeping more than 50 lbs. of smokeless powder or storing said powder outside of the above code would be a fire code violation in many, if not most, places. But it would not be technically against the law, it would only be a code violation. I am unaware of any state or federal law that explicitly limits the amount of powder that can be kept in a private residence, just the above fire code.

[Currently]

Should you do have a fire and the investigators discover it, your insurance will refuse to pay.

Fifty pounds of powder is a lot of power.

[enfield]

Stored gasoline, oil-based paint and solvents are more dangerous than smokeless powder -- they just don't get the press.

I don't have any reloading supplies.

[Worriedman]

Should you do have a fire and the investigators discover it, your insurance will refuse to pay.

Fifty pounds of powder is a lot of power.

So, you are saying if you have under the NFPA regulated amount, stored correctly, and you have a fire, your insurance can deny coverage?

[LagerHead]

If you have powder, talk to your insurance company about it. Don't get caught with your pants down when it's too late.

[Currently]

Nope, if it is secured in an appropriate container and under 50 pounds, you should be OK.

Ammo cans are not good containers, you need something that will vent the gases.

My fire chief in my old hometown gave me hell when I was a dealer and told me if my house ever caught fire, he was letting it burn down. That is when I started checking on regs.

[56FordGuy]

So what about those guys that were buying up large quantities of gas when the price spiked last year and kept a lot of 5 or 10 gallon cans in their garage or shop? Or geez, the folks that have like 20 gallons of flammable paint at their home. You shade tree mechanics got starter fluid and brake cleaner by the case somewhere?

If its all in the public safety mode, they should be going door to door everywhere right? Well that ain't flying either. How the heck would they even know if you are a possible reloader anyway? Local informants in the neighborhood? I would need new neighbors.

I'll just say no.

The difference, as someone else stated, is that those things don't make the news. A gallon of exterior latex paint doesn't get the emotions riled up like, well...anything gun related, as far as the media is concerned. If they could find a way, or the agenda to twist paint cans, lawnmower gas, and anything in an aerosol can, then we might see more code enforcement.

As for how they would know, I don't know. Aside from knocking on every door and hoping for an honest answer if they asked, the only other way to know would have to be monitoring the sale of powder, and I don't see how that could be legal without the consumer's consent.

I'm not in favor of this by any stretch of the imagination. I just think it's an unintended consequence of the buying craze that happened around the election.

[Farman]

NFPA codes are not law!! NFPA makes recommendations.

If a fire marshall, fire inspector comes to a private residence to inspect your "stash" he needs PD and a warrant, which means there is probable cause that a law is being broken. Regluations for a business may be enforced by the F.D.

As far as your insurance coverage, it may be best to check with your ins. agent. They may feel different about NFPA recommendations. Don't forget to use answers like, not very often, occasionally, sometimes.

There are a lot more dangerous items in every garage and storage shed then the amount of powder and ammo stored by the small number of serious shooters and I don't see a door to door "search".

[dunndw]

Unless there is a warrant involved, NO ONE GAINS ENTRY TO MY HOME

[TMMT]

Under what authority are these Code Enforcement Officers conducting these (I guess) warrantless searches?

[TMMT]

NFPA codes are not law!! NFPA makes recommendations.

If a fire marshall, fire inspector comes to a private residence to inspect your "stash" he needs PD and a warrant, which means there is probable cause that a law is being broken. Regluations for a business may be enforced by the F.D.

As far as your insurance coverage, it may be best to check with your ins. agent. They may feel different about NFPA recommendations. Don't forget to use answers like, not very often, occasionally, sometimes.

There are a lot more dangerous items in every garage and storage shed then the amount of powder and ammo stored by the small number of serious shooters and I don't see a door to door "search".

Most Fire Marshals are also POST certified Peace Officers due to over lapping responsibilities involving arson investigations they share with local and state arson investigators.

Fire Marshals will only inspect a private home at the written request of the home owner. Their authority to conduct unannounced inspections are limited to business that hold a city/county certificate of occupancy, open to the general public.

[mdmoseley]

limits? I had no idea there were limits. I want to know do they have a warrent and if they dont can I have them arrested for tresspassing?

Codes doesn't need a warrant to do an inspection.

[Guest kerstuff]

I call !!! My property is locked and I have "an expectation to privacy".

That means "Warrant is needed" !!! The phrase written in bold should mean something to LEO's IF you ever attended Federal training or any Academies.

[Mike.357]

I would not invite them in. I might ask how they would prefer me to store it if I had any.

[ukerduker]

That's BS. Glad I got rid of all my loading supplies years ago (wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more)

I had to give up on my reloading efforts. It was just too dangerous. All that powder just sitting there in its original container, in a dark basement, just waiting to explode. So, I gave all my stuff to Rightwinger.

[Guest Muttling]

I call :poop:!!! My property is locked and I have "an expectation to privacy".

That means "Warrant is needed" !!! The phrase written in bold should mean something to LEO's IF you ever attended Federal training or any Academies.

I concur. If I'm not running a business or some other operation that is open to the public, am I required to open my door for any type of codes inspection when there is no evidence of a codes violation?

I have an reasonable expectation to privacy in my own residence.

It was previously said that codes enforcement doesn't require a warrant so I may be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time.) That said, I want links to what legislation establishes a right for codes inspectors to inspect my residence without my consent and without reason to believe there is a violation.

[USMCJG]

I concur. If I'm not running a business or some other operation that is open to the public, am I required to open my door for any type of codes inspection when there is no evidence of a codes violation?

I have an reasonable expectation to privacy in my own residence.

It was previously said that codes enforcement doesn't require a warrant so I may be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time.) That said, I want links to what legislation establishes a right for codes inspectors to inspect my residence without my consent and without reason to believe there is a violation.

I agree, but I'm not absolutely sure of the rules on this either. I have worked in the construction industry for a long time, mostly commercial, and have dealt with inspectors on a near daily basis, again mostly commercial, and I have never heard of them having the ability to come into a private residence uninvited. Businesses yes, but not private residences. I know a guy that used to be a building inspector. I'll see if I can get ahold of him tomorrow and ask him about this.

[Chief07]

1. Keep the gate closed and locked!

2. Keep flammable stuff in a shed away from the main building.

3. They better have a warrent!!!

[Rightwinger]

I had to give up on my reloading efforts. It was just too dangerous. All that powder just sitting there in its original container, in a dark basement, just waiting to explode. So, I gave all my stuff to Rightwinger.

Weren't we boating the day of the tragic reloading equipment loss Uker?