Open Carry as a Civic Responsibility?

[TNTitan]

Whew.. I know this is a can of worms, but I was hoping to get some polite discussion about the idea of Open Carrying as a method by which the General Public can be exposed to law-abiding citizens exercising their rights.

I think it’s safe to say that the "tactical advantage" of concealed carry has been argued ad nauseum and I think it is a very valid point when personal protection is your primary (and only) concern. That’s not the focus of this thread, but rather, do you think that HCP holders would be less likely to be seen as crazies or dangerous citizens if the general public was more aware of what was going on around them? Out of sight, out of mind right? If the general public never sees responsible citizens carrying guns and only hears about guns in negative contexts (crimes, media, etc.) is it possible that we, as concealed carriers, are contributing to the future infringement of our rights? I mean even some Law Enforcement are taken aback when they see OC’ers, simply because they’re not used to seeing it.

Forgive the awful comparison, but I remember when Bluetooth headsets came out for the first time. People stared and laughed at the 1st (brave?) Bluetooth owners, but very soon they were everywhere and now almost nobody notices who is wearing something in their ear or not. I wonder if we could see something analogous for gun owners in the future? Wouldn’t this be a good thing for 2nd amendment proponents? I’ve got no real agenda here and I welcome your input.

[Guest tlondon]

this should be interesting. will make a good discussion though......

[LagerHead]

If nothing else, you bring up a very good topic for discussion.

[TGO David]

As I've said before, your holster isn't the right place to be an activist in my opinion.

[TNTitan]

As I've said before, your holster isn't the right place to be an activist in my opinion.

Why not? What would be better/more appropriate?

[TGO David]

Why not? What would be better/more appropriate?

Why not? Because your firearm is a means of personal protection, not a ballot box.

More appropriate? At the ballot box.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

As I've said before, your holster isn't the right place to be an activist in my opinion.

Why not? Because your firearm is a means of personal protection, not a ballot box.

More appropriate? At the ballot box.

Strongly agree.

[Guest 2HOW]

IMO open is a bad choice. But If you will please use a duty holster with lots of retention built in. I open sometimes and think its a great way to exercise your rights, if you want all the hassles that go along with it. be advised you will cause panic and be arrested for disturbing the peace ( the catch all ) . But you go guy , see you on TV.

[TNTitan]

Why not? Because your firearm is a means of personal protection, not a ballot box.

More appropriate? At the ballot box.

Fair enough.

So I guess I am left wondering if the constant barrage of negative associations with firearms is the only gun experience the voting public sees, then is our private time at the ballot box enough? Maybe it is.

...be advised you will cause panic and be arrested for disturbing the peace ( the catch all )...

I think you're right.. I also think this reaction is a direct result of so many CC'ers. What if all 200K HCP owners in TN OC'd? Would the general populace become accustomed to seeing it, or would panic ensue and remain? I really dont know to be honest.

...But you go guy , see you on TV.

let me add that I ONLY CC currently. I am just trying to learn from the experiences/ideas of others here.

Edited September 24, 2009 by TNTitan

[Smith]

The difference in comparison is that side arms aren't and "never" will be wide spread. The other problem is that side arms carry a completely different weight of responsibility than any other commonly seen carry item.

While I understand where you are going, I think it misses the point. Guns are not the way to encourage civic responsibility. It is just one of the many issues contained within the larger concept of civic/personal responsibility. It may actually do more of a disservice than service for a period of time.

[TNTitan]

Thanks Smith. I wish it were easier to show the general public that HCP holders are responsible citizens.. sometimes it seems that our constant "concealment" only hurts us in the long run - maybe it dosent. But I agree that our exposure could also be a liability to the cause.. kind of a catch 22.

I just cant stand comments from people like "I dont know why anyone would need to carry a gun. Nobody I know carrys one!" Well duh.. thats cause we are all concealing.

[MudBugjr]

IMO open is a bad choice. But If you will please use a duty holster with lots of retention built in. I open sometimes and think its a great way to exercise your rights, if you want all the hassles that go along with it. be advised you will cause panic and be arrested for disturbing the peace ( the catch all ) . But you go guy , see you on TV.

OK I'm trying to figure why i would get arrested for OC'ing. You say you do sometimes and tell someone else they will be arrested for disturbing the peace. what sense does that make. I always CC but would never be afraid to OC. Its not against the law. and whats up with a duty holster for OC'ing I'm not trying to look like a LEO.

[Guest Ssmo]

They are trying this method in California right now. They have a good size movement going.

California has coined the term UOC (Uloaded Open Carry). In the state of CA you can unloaded open carry in incorporated areas in unincoporated areas you can loaded open carry (rural).

They seem to be educating the public somewhat. Still I think carrying a gun uloaded or not openly to educate is not a very good educational tool.

Still seeing some people carry may make others change there minds. It could be positive or it could be negative.

Here in MO our permit doesnt allow open carry. Open is regulated at the county or city level. Many place do allow open carrying and many dont.

I am all for open or cc or both. I dont care which way you go about protecting yourself as long as it does not hinder me.

[Guest truthsayer]

I wouldn't file it under "civic responsibility" necessarily, but I believe it's important for the unarmed to see citizens leading normal lives with guns. I wrote a blog post a while ago about this very topic.

Truthsayer's Spree: On Open Carrying

[Wrangler]

Why not? Because your firearm is a means of personal protection, not a ballot box.

More appropriate? At the ballot box.

I think TGO David for Governor......

[macville]

Here's a question. Is an open carried firearm on an LEO making a statement? Give me some opinions and then I'll continue my thinking aloud.

Matthew

[DaveTN]

To think you were doing some type of service to HCP holders you would have to believe that the public at large is unaware of the situation… maybe if they live in a cave.

The public is fully aware of what is going on and they don’t like it. Some just don’t want anyone carrying a gun and some see us as a “Special Group” that has privileges they can’t afford to buy.

Infringement of our rights? If this involved a right it wouldn’t even be an issue. Open carriers are contributing to the future infringement of our privileges.

[TNTitan]

...Open carriers are contributing to the future infringement of our privileges.

Dave - thanks for your comments. Question: If legislation was proposed to ban Open Carry in this state, would you be in favor of that?

[Guest 270win]

I like to keep my business to myself when I carry a handgun in public. I'm not out to educate the whole public about firearms. There are plenty of gunshops, ranges, gun shows, their own family, and friends that can do that.

Tennessee has a problem in that you MUST have a permit to carry openly or concealed in public. This is not Louisiana where if you are openly carrying...you are PRESUMED to be LEGAL.....Tennessee is totally opposite...Carrying period is presumed to be ILLEGAL in public unless you can prove you are legal...such as a permit..while hunting/fishing/hiking..you are law enforcement..judge..and so on. I don't have the time to prove to anyone (as in police) that I am legal and like to avoid such encounters by concealing. Most off duty police conceal for the same reason....yes many can legally openly carry in whatever state they live in...but they don't want to show their ID to another LEO unless they have to...they'd rather be under the radar....I like being under the radar.

[TNTitan]

wow.. great point razorback. i never thought about the presumption of illegality here in TN.

[volshayes]

There are some State Reps and State Senators that REALLY are concerned about fiscal responsibility. That's why they attach fiscal notes to their bills. Open carry may cause some people, that are not HCP's, to call law enforcement and report us because they think something is not "right" about the situation. The potential issue that we face is this. If we cause county and local governments to spend unnecessary dollars on law enforcement due to open carry "reports", this may cause state legislators to take another look at this, which we definitely want to avoid. We could potentially be forced into concealed carry because of economics, which is something we can easily prevent. First and foremost to me, concealed carry is a tactical advantage, and I want every advantage I can get in a potentially deadly situation. Second, some situations may be appropriate or necessary for open carry, but a good dose of restraint on open carry could help ensure that we keep this ability in the future.

[Guest 2HOW]

OK I'm trying to figure why i would get arrested for OC'ing. You say you do sometimes and tell someone else they will be arrested for disturbing the peace. what sense does that make. I always CC but would never be afraid to OC. Its not against the law. and whats up with a duty holster for OC'ing I'm not trying to look like a LEO.

You miss my point. Only a quality duty holster OWB will have the necessary retention device built in so when the thugs mug you it will be harder for them to get your gun. I only OC in the country ( I would never OC in the city) Police have arrested people for disturbing the peace by open carrying if they want to be a jackass about it. And don't be naive , because its not against the law means squat.

[Jonsaiga]

JMHO and YMMV........

I moved here from Virginia, and in Virginia any one who is legally allowed to be in possession of a firearm can open carry most places. I've also lived and/or worked in numerous other open carry states across the US. When working in open carry states that did not honor my VA CHP, I would open carry. I've open carried in very small rural towns on up to very heavily populated cities. I never did it as activism or to make any kind of statement. Mostly I did because I could not carry concealed or sometimes out of convenience(quick stop or extreme temps). I think the more people are exposed to responsible, friendly, well mannered gun owners the less they will feel fear or uneasiness about open carry or guns in general. The VCDL and opencarry.org often have open carry dinners in public parks and resturants, open carry litter pick-ups and such for this reason.

I would advise, that if one wants to open carry for the sake of activism, then they should maintain a presentable appearance, be able to articulate their veiws very well and be prepared to defend them(verbally) in acalm rational manner.

[Guest TackleberryTom]

Why are so many pro CC's so anti OC, yet OC's don't seem to have a problem with CC ?

There is ONE thing I am sick and tired of hearing, "CC for the tactical advantage".

If it is sooo tactically superior, then why don't the LEO Tact teams CC? Seems like they would want to have a "tactical" advantage. I am not opposed to CC, but I think that OC does a good job of desensitizing sheeple to firearms. I have already seen it work at some of the local places that I frequent.

Maybe we need to push for OC as a constitutional right, like many other states. What do the anti OC's think about Kentucky's laws? Do you despise them? If you do, I question your loyalties.

I take our current state law at face value, it is legal to carry a handgun CC or OC with a permit. I do not try to " interpret" the laws the way I see fit. I also take the Constitution on face value as well. Hopefully our state will do that too. A right that is not exercised is a right will be lost. OC with true American Pride!!

[Guest TackleberryTom]

As I've said before, your holster isn't the right place to be an activist in my opinion.

How do you get someone else to vote for something that they don't know much about? You ADVERTISE!! You can keep voting the same way you always do, but if you don't gain support, you will lose every time.

By your same "logic" I don't think that a car is the correct place to be an activist either. It is meant for transportation not activism.