gun registration

[Guest heavyd]

I'm confused as to the registration laws in tn,I was told at a local gun shop during my permit class that the records from a firearms transaction were destroyed after 72 hours ,but I can't find anything to back this up.I had assumed this fellow knew what he was talking about since he sells guns everyday. I would like to know for sure.

[Kegger]

There are no registration laws in TN.

None.

[Daniel]

The record of the BG check is deleted after 72 hours. The FFL maintains the form you filled out but it is not a registration. You are free to sell the firearm to anyone that is over 18 and is legally allowed to own it to your knowledge.

[Guest jimdigriz]

The record of the BG check is deleted after 72 hours. The FFL maintains the form you filled out but it is not a registration.

The FFL is required by law to turn all of their forms over to the ATF when they shut down, and investigators can gain access to the records prior to that as well.

Also, are you certain that the BG check is actually deleted after 72 hours?

Jim

[Guest jackdm3]

I'm sorry to post this again. Why would any faction of government extinguish any information once submitted? Whether you feel it is "registered" or not means nothing if such info is traceable and someone knows what, where and who bought it.

[Guest heavyd]

so they are "unregistered" but are able to be tracked,got to love it

[Guest Muttling]

I'm confused as to the registration laws in tn,I was told at a local gun shop during my permit class that the records from a firearms transaction were destroyed after 72 hours ,but I can't find anything to back this up.I had assumed this fellow knew what he was talking about since he sells guns everyday. I would like to know for sure.

As suggested above, but not detailed......

Tennessee does not track firearms sales, that is an operation of the Federal Government instead of the State Government. (As I understand it.)

The BATF tracks the gun from the manufacturer to the dealer to the initial purchase. After that, you can sale the weapon to a private individual without reporting it but it is on record everytime a dealer gets it.

Here's a link I quickly Googled that discusses the process in relation to them tracking a weapon involved in a crime...

Local ATF center brings the gun tracking home

What's more, BATF is knocking on doors of frequent gun buyers in Texas and pestering them in an effort to ferret out people supplying guns to Mexican gangs. I suspect they're using the Patriot Act to access dealer records and scour them for people who fit their profile.

[Daniel]

The FFL is required by law to turn all of their forms over to the ATF when they shut down, and investigators can gain access to the records prior to that as well.

Also, are you certain that the BG check is actually deleted after 72 hours?

Jim

I am not certain. I believe in one New England state it was found that the state was not destroying the records and had years and years of them when they were discovered. My understanding is that they are supposed to be destroyed after 72 hours.

[DaveTN]

Registration and traceability have nothing to do with each other. No, Tennessee does not require registration. Yes, guns that go through dealers (and even through private owners) can be traced.

[strickj]

Registration and traceability have nothing to do with each other. No, Tennessee does not require registration. Yes, guns that go through dealers (and even through private owners) can be traced.

Yes,and even hammers can be traced back to a hardware store.

[Guest crotalus01]

So they can trace it back to the original buyer, so what? They can do the same with cars and a lot of other things. If you are really worried about it, just buy from private individuals from your own state.

[Guest canynracer]

No, no gun registration...at all.

yes, the TBI records are destroyed after 72 hours.

[Guest db99wj]

No, no gun registration...at all.

yes, the TBI records are destroyed after 72 hours.

...for now.

[Guest jimdigriz]

No, no gun registration...at all.

Firearms dealers have to keep their forms, and later turn them in to the ATF when they go out of business. So I'm not sure how you could say none "at all".

yes, the TBI records are destroyed after 72 hours.

How do you know that?

Jim

[Guest canynracer]

keeping their forms is not registration...if you sell that gun you do not go update the forms...ALSO, you dont HAVE to buy from a dealer...which means NO FORMS... that is FAR from registration

I know that because I have tried to get a older record and could not..it was impossible, because the records are destroyed at TBI...now, that does not mean that the FEDERAL level destroys it...just the state.

Edited September 30, 2009 by canynracer

[Guest jackdm3]

Why would any gub'ment department ever throw out fingerprints, photos, DNA samples, etc. once received? I would think TBI would be the last to give up such valuable info, despite their stated policy. Fourth Reich, here we come!

[Guest canynracer]

[DaveTN]

Why would any gub'ment department ever throw out fingerprints, photos, DNA samples, etc. once received? I would think TBI would be the last to give up such valuable info, despite their stated policy.

They wouldn’t unless they were required to by law.

I couldn’t care less if they keep the records; but if I did I wouldn’t care what their “Policy†is.

The questions are:

1. Is there a law that requires them to destroy the records?

2. Is there a procedure in place to make sure that happens?

<O:p</O:p

If the answer to both those questions is “Yes†then you have accountability. If the answer to either of those questions is “Noâ€, then TBI can keep whatever they have.

[Guest jimdigriz]

They wouldn’t unless they were required to by law.

I couldn’t care less if they keep the records; but if I did I wouldn’t care what their “Policy” is.

The questions are:

1. Is there a law that requires them to destroy the records?

2. Is there a procedure in place to make sure that happens?

<o></o>

If the answer to both those questions is “Yes” then you have accountability. If the answer to either of those questions is “No”, then TBI can keep whatever they have.

No offense, Dave, but it is a bit naive to assume that the government will conscientiously follow the law. Such is certainly contrary to experience.

Edited October 10, 2009 by jimdigriz

[Guest jimdigriz]

keeping their forms is not registration...if you sell that gun you do not go update the forms...ALSO, you dont HAVE to buy from a dealer...which means NO FORMS... that is FAR from registration

No, it is _partial_ registration, which is just what I've been saying all along. But some people here have been claiming that there is "no registration at all."

I know that because I have tried to get a older record and could not..it was impossible, because the records are destroyed at TBI...now, that does not mean that the FEDERAL level destroys it...just the state.

I'm much less worried about the state of TN attempting to confiscate my firearms than the federal government, so this is not much comfort. Nonetheless, I don't think your experience constitutes definitive evidence that even TBI destroys the records.

Jim

[DaveTN]

No offense, Dave, but it is a bit naive to assume that the government will conscientiously follow the law. Such is certainly contrary to experience.

None taken.

Hence by comment about law and accountability. If there is no law and there is no accountability; they can do what they like.

<O:p</O:p

Here’s what we will do…. Post a link to the law that says the TBI can’t keep records. Then give a case of a real person (not an internet story) willing to come forward that has evidence they have violated that law. I will be willing to write letters that I think would cause an investigation. We see every day that while government officials may break the law; they are not above the law. The press loves a good story of officials breaking the law.

<O:p</O:p

I have no idea if the TBI is breaking the law and really don’t care what records they keep. But I’m more than willing to make the proper notifications and sign my name to it if they are.

<O:p</O:p

With no evidence it’s just all speculation and anti-government tinfoil hattery.

<O:p</O:p

[DaveTN]

I'm much less worried about the state of TN attempting to confiscate my firearms than the federal government, so this is not much comfort.

You are worrying about something that can’t and won’t happen. In the wake of the gun confiscations during Katrina many states passed legislation that will not allow that to happen again. Most states would not allow it to happen; I suspect Tennessee would be one of those.

But it does make a good plot for movie doesn’t it?

[Guest kerstuff]

You are worrying about something that can’t and won’t happen. In the wake of the gun confiscations during Katrina many states passed legislation that will not allow that to happen again. Most states would not allow it to happen; I suspect Tennessee would be one of those.

But it does make a good plot for movie doesn’t it?

You CAN'T be that naive? Read the health p.o.s that the Feds under Bacchaus has proposed. Have a gun, no health coverage. The present :poop:Congress under the Messia-duh is not to be trusted. Just read the GOA alert on this VERY forum. I was a FED for 22 years and they are NOT TO BE TRUSTED!

[Guest jimdigriz]

You are worrying about something that can’t and won’t happen.

I'd never be so bold as to say that something that has happened repeatedly in history "can't and won't happen" again.

In the wake of the gun confiscations during Katrina many states passed legislation that will not allow that to happen again.

Once again you appeal to the power of a law's mere existence to restrain the authorities. But if I'm not mistaken, the Katrina confiscations were already unlawful before those laws were passed.

The government is willing to flaunt the law in normal times; under the justification of an "emergency", no law, right or protection is safe.

Most states would not allow it to happen; I suspect Tennessee would be one of those.

Tennessee passed a law like what you mentioned above. It prohibits confiscation only when the state of emergency is declared by the governor. But when the president declares the emergency, this law is completely irrelevant. And that's the more likely scenario anyhow.

Jim

[TNTitan]

Firearms dealers have to keep their forms, and later turn them in to the ATF when they go out of business. So I'm not sure how you could say none "at all".

How do you know that?

Jim

http://www.state.tn.us/sos/rules/1395/1395-01-03.pdf

1395-1-3-.03 TICS PROGRAM IN GENERAL.

(1) The TICS Program is responsible for conducting background checks for proposed transfers of firearms in Tennessee, except for transfers excluded in § 39-17-1316.

(2) The TBI TICS Program shall remain open seven (7) days a week from the hours of eight o’clock a.m. to ten o’clock p.m. Central Standard Time (8:00 a.m.- 10:00 p.m. (CST)) and only close for Independence Day (July 4th), Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day. March, 2002 (Revised)

3 DIVISION OF TENNESSEE INSTANT CHECK SYSTEM PROGRAM

(Rule 1395-1-3-.03, continued)

(3) The information obtained by the TBI TICS Unit shall be maintained in the following manner:

(a) TICS shall destroy all records pertaining to approved firearm transfers by the close of business on the day of the transaction except the transaction number and date the transaction occurred;

( TICS may keep all information pertaining to denied firearm transfers including, but not limited to, any investigative materials obtained to confirm the criminal history of the recipient

and enter the information into a Denial Database, which the FBI NICS Unit and BATF shall have access to, upon request.