Guns in "Bars/Restaurants" - New info?

[Guest Gun Geek]

Ok, so yesterday I went with a friend to go have a few beers at this somewhat new restaurant that also serves alcohol. I was legal, I wasn't carrying as I intended to have a few beers. As we were walking up to the door I noticed that they had a sign that read,

"Absolutely no weapons of any kind"

Of course this is not a legal sign, but I got to questioning it. My buddy who has been there a few times and talked to the owners and the staff, knows that they are all gun nuts. So I proceeded to ask why the sign was on the door if they were all 2A supporters. The answer was that the Liquor Board would not give them the liquor license unless they posted something on the door stating no weapons. It didn't have to be the "legal" sign but something had to be posted.

After hearing this I was kind of ticked, so the law was passed that we can carry in restaurants that server alcohol if we are not consuming but merely having a meal or something but if a new business wants their liquor license they have to post a sign otherwise they wont be serving. What kind of %*&$ is that.

This could be B.S. and they are just blaming someone else but then I dont doubt what they told me either considering all of them really are gun nuts. As we sat there we talked about ARs AKs etc etc. What do you guys think?

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I believe they are meeting the requirements of the laws prior to the new law that went in to effect in July.

[Guest HexHead]

While the ABC can and probably does require the old "It's a misdemeanor" sign (HCP holders are exempted from it under the new law) they're full of with their response about the sign at the door.

Just because they may be hunters doesn't mean they support your 2A rights. Lots of gun owners couldn't care less about an AWB or handgun restrictions as long as their shotguns or deer rifle is left alone. They're even worse than the all out antis.

[Guest redbarron06]

From what I understand the Liquor board is at the state level and the beer board is county/local. The AG has already come out and said that it is illegal for the beer boards to try this crap. They were talking about it in Nashvill and Memphis and the AG snipped it in the bud.

[Guest Gun Geek]

While the ABC can and probably does require the old "It's a misdemeanor" sign (HCP holders are exempted from it under the new law) they're full of with their response about the sign at the door.

Just because they may be hunters doesn't mean they support your 2A rights. Lots of gun owners couldn't care less about an AWB or handgun restrictions as long as their shotguns or deer rifle is left alone. They're even worse than the all out antis.

No they are 2A supporters I can vouch for that after talking with them for a while... place was empty. But - it may be B.S.

From what I understand the Liquor board is at the state level and the beer board is county/local. The AG has already come out and said that it is illegal for the beer boards to try this crap. They were talking about it in Nashvill and Memphis and the AG snipped it in the bud.

They may need to nip it in Sevierville too. I will do some more digging with a few other new bars and see what they were told.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Gun Geek

[VolunteerGuns]

The AG has already come out and said that it is illegal for the beer boards to try this crap. QUOTE]

The thing is most business owners will just do as instructed. What proof is there that someone didn't just "misunderstand" the instruction of the local board??

[JayC]

Total BS, the liquor board nor the beer boards can require you to post to get a license (If they are it's a violation of state law)...

One of 2 things, 1. They want to post but want to blame somebody else for it, or 2. They are mistaking a requirement to have a sign somewhere near the bar that states that it's a misdemeanor to have a firearm (which HCP holders are exempt from if not drinking) with having to post at the door.

Either way, they're incorrect. There is no requirement to post.

Ok, so yesterday I went with a friend to go have a few beers at this somewhat new restaurant that also serves alcohol. I was legal, I wasn't carrying as I intended to have a few beers. As we were walking up to the door I noticed that they had a sign that read,

"Absolutely no weapons of any kind"

Of course this is not a legal sign, but I got to questioning it. My buddy who has been there a few times and talked to the owners and the staff, knows that they are all gun nuts. So I proceeded to ask why the sign was on the door if they were all 2A supporters. The answer was that the Liquor Board would not give them the liquor license unless they posted something on the door stating no weapons. It didn't have to be the "legal" sign but something had to be posted.

After hearing this I was kind of ticked, so the law was passed that we can carry in restaurants that server alcohol if we are not consuming but merely having a meal or something but if a new business wants their liquor license they have to post a sign otherwise they wont be serving. What kind of %*&$ is that.

This could be B.S. and they are just blaming someone else but then I dont doubt what they told me either considering all of them really are gun nuts. As we sat there we talked about ARs AKs etc etc. What do you guys think?

[JayC]

The AG has already come out and said that it is illegal for the beer boards to try this crap. QUOTE]

The thing is most business owners will just do as instructed. What proof is there that someone didn't just "misunderstand" the instruction of the local board??

If you're a smart business owner, you request everything in writing from the beer board. That way when a problem comes out you can pull out the letter to keep from getting you permit revoked.

[Mariner]

In a perfect world the beer board follows all the rules and gives you everything in writing. But as I have found in this world, they will tell them if they don't post you wont get a license, and if you challenge it they will produce some obscure thing like you opened a minute and a half before you were allowed to in order to explain why they refused your alcohol license. I just hope that if that is what is happening someone will file a lawsuite and have the proof to reem the board members a new one.

[DaveTN]

What do you guys think?

I don’t think they are all as pro gun as you may think. Do you think a “Gun Nut†as you called them would just waltz out there and slap a “No weapons†sign on the door without finding out if he was required to do it?

He’s doing it for the same reason the rest of them are doing it; he’s a business man. Allowing guns in a bar is just asking to lose business. If it is concealed there is no issue; if it is carried openly, that’s another story. With his sign the way it is he can let the concealed people carry and stop the open people at the door.

It may also help a little if someone is shot in his place and he ends up the target of a lawsuit.

[tntnixon]

From what I understand the Liquor board is at the state level and the beer board is county/local. The AG has already come out and said that it is illegal for the beer boards to try this crap. They were talking about it in Nashvill and Memphis and the AG snipped it in the bud.

Here's the deal. The beer board or the ABC cannot require a posting. So license holders who already have a permit cannot lose them for not posting.

The gray area comes with new license seekers. The granting of a permit is at the sole discretion of the board/commission. Ever notice that there are no bars or liquor stores in the Madison area of Nashville. That's because the Madison Church of Christ has put so much pressure on the boards, that no license will be granted. At one point, the boards wouldn't grant "gay bars" in Nashville a license (that was before the political winds went to the left).

So, there is no "right" to a license. Therefore, they may not actually tell the establishment that they "must post". But someone on the board could gently whisper into the ear of the permit seeker that they would be more likely to get a yes vote at the meeting if they were to "voluntarily" place a sign.

[Magiccarpetrides]

If you dont mind shoot me a pm and let me know which bar/establishment this is...I work in Sevierville so it would be good to know.

[Worriedman]

I don’t think they are all as pro gun as you may think. Do you think a “Gun Nut†as you called them would just waltz out there and slap a “No weapons†sign on the door without finding out if he was required to do it?

He’s doing it for the same reason the rest of them are doing it; he’s a business man. Allowing guns in a bar is just asking to lose business. If it is concealed there is no issue; if it is carried openly, that’s another story. With his sign the way it is he can let the concealed people carry and stop the open people at the door.

It may also help a little if someone is shot in his place and he ends up the target of a lawsuit.

So you think not having a sign Posting against HCP carry is asking to loose business? Down in our neck of the woods it is just the opposite. They shoot 'em up quite steady and regular in the Gun Free Zones in Madison Co.

Any HCP Holder that carries concealed in a Posted establishment is a jail term and big bucks, as well as loss of permit, waiting to happen. Legal or not, the intent of a posting would be a hard sell if one had to use his weapon in defense of his life. Personally, I do not frequent or give my money to establishment that post against HCP Carry. We even have a few Dr.'s offices here that have taken their signs down. Folks are getting the drift that a Posting is an advertisement to rob stress free. When they started hitting the beauty shops here, that woke some people up! Unemployment and crime rates tend to match each other, we have plenty of one, and way too much of the other, it is only going to get worse.

[Guest Gun Geek]

So you think not having a sign Posting against HCP carry is asking to loose business? Down in our neck of the woods it is just the opposite. They shoot 'em up quite steady and regular in the Gun Free Zones in Madison Co.

Any HCP Holder that carries concealed in a Posted establishment is a jail term and big bucks, as well as loss of permit, waiting to happen. Legal or not, the intent of a posting would be a hard sell if one had to use his weapon in defense of his life. Personally, I do not frequent or give my money to establishment that post against HCP Carry. We even have a few Dr.'s offices here that have taken their signs down. Folks are getting the drift that a Posting is an advertisement to rob stress free. When they started hitting the beauty shops here, that woke some people up! Unemployment and crime rates tend to match each other, we have plenty of one, and way too much of the other, it is only going to get worse.

They only risk jail time and big bucks if the establishment has the sign posted properly. I simple "No weapons of any kind" or "no gun" sign does not have any recourse other than being asked to leave. I could see though how even a sign that is not legal could make your case harder to defend if, god forbid you did have to draw and fire.

[DaveTN]

If you have to draw and fire and you are justified… you are home free; signs do not matter.

[Guest Gun Geek]

Very true, but you know the question would come up, "why if they had it posted...."

[cybernorris]

Wondering if other places are like this....

"That concludes the meeting of the Board of Mayor and Aldermen. I now call to order the meeting of the Beer Board."

[Fallguy]

I thought violation of 39-17-1359 only carried a $500 fine and no jail time?

However I could be wrong...have been before.

[Fallguy]

Wondering if other places are like this....

"That concludes the meeting of the Board of Mayor and Aldermen. I now call to order the meeting of the Beer Board."

Almost all places

But the cities and counties I have lived in...the Beer Board meets first, then the County Commissioners or City Councilmen.

However isn't the OP saying the place said the sign was "required" by the state level board that issues liquor license and not the local level board that issues beer license?

[Guest HexHead]

I thought violation of 39-17-1359 only carried a $500 fine and no jail time?

However I could be wrong...have been before.

That's all it says on the legal signs.

[JayC]

Here's the deal. The beer board or the ABC cannot require a posting. So license holders who already have a permit cannot lose them for not posting.

The gray area comes with new license seekers. The granting of a permit is at the sole discretion of the board/commission. Ever notice that there are no bars or liquor stores in the Madison area of Nashville. That's because the Madison Church of Christ has put so much pressure on the boards, that no license will be granted. At one point, the boards wouldn't grant "gay bars" in Nashville a license (that was before the political winds went to the left).

So, there is no "right" to a license. Therefore, they may not actually tell the establishment that they "must post". But someone on the board could gently whisper into the ear of the permit seeker that they would be more likely to get a yes vote at the meeting if they were to "voluntarily" place a sign.

If they require or request a 1359 posting as part of granting a new license, that would be a violation of state law. The law covers currently issued permits, renewals, and new permits.

[Guest Gun Geek]

I will visit a few more new bars this weekend.... darn and see if they have the same reply. I really want to know if this is being said. And if it is I will be reporting it... that is for sure.

[Guest db99wj]

Here's the deal. The beer board or the ABC cannot require a posting. So license holders who already have a permit cannot lose them for not posting.

The gray area comes with new license seekers. The granting of a permit is at the sole discretion of the board/commission. Ever notice that there are no bars or liquor stores in the Madison area of Nashville. That's because the Madison Church of Christ has put so much pressure on the boards, that no license will be granted. At one point, the boards wouldn't grant "gay bars" in Nashville a license (that was before the political winds went to the left).

So, there is no "right" to a license. Therefore, they may not actually tell the establishment that they "must post". But someone on the board could gently whisper into the ear of the permit seeker that they would be more likely to get a yes vote at the meeting if they were to "voluntarily" place a sign.

If they require or request a 1359 posting as part of granting a new license, that would be a violation of state law. The law covers currently issued permits, renewals, and new permits.

The restaurant association is dead against this law, beer board and ABC are of similar peoples, "like minded". It appears, that it is against the law to "require" an establishment to post to get there license, but there is nothing in the law that states they can't strongly "suggest" or "prefer" or anything else in order to grant the license. From friends I know, it is hard enough getting a beer or liquor license in the first place, and if these boards are in fact, anti carry law, it would be very easy for them to say, "We didn't see that this establishment serving was the best interest of the community due to the church, school, playground, spotted owl, daycare, hospital that is located down the road"

In other words, just because they didn't "require it", doesn't mean that is not "strongly suggested".