i have a 243 win and i need to upgrade. but to what?

[Smith]

Ehhh...The OP has stopped listening and doesn't want to say what he's actually hunting. Let's just hijack the thread and have a good debate on big game cartridges.

SMITH - With all respect, I must disagree. The .270 is a great cartridge, but it's not as versatile for hitting power. The .308 (a.k.a. 7.62 mm NATO) wins for penetration, damage, and ability to handle brush based on the cartridge chosen. Flatness of trajectory is a very different story and the .270 is superior IME.

.30-.06 Lovers - WOW, that cartridge can do almost anything but it kicks a lot harder and the trajectory isn't as pretty as a .308.

7mm Mag Lovers - I'm with you hard core. I actually prefer a .270 Weatherby for trajectory, but they're stupidly expensive to shoot.

.243 Lovers - It's a nice little round as is the .25-06, the .223 (e.g. 5.56mm NATO), and the .22-250. Great for anything less than 100lbs, but I prefer critters with some meat on their bones.

May the fire bombing begin.

P.S. - For the record....I'm a lover of the .270 Wby Mag, .308, .30-06, 7mm Mag, and .22-250. (In that order)

Just for fun!

The load that made the .270's reputation was a 130 grain spitzer bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 3,140 fps. The recoil energy from firing this load in an 8 pound rifle amounts to about 16.5 ft. lbs. This level of performance can still be achieved by the reloader. Today's standard factory loads drive the 130 grain spitzer to about 3,060 fps. The Speer 130 grain flat base spitzer has a ballistic coefficient (BC) of .408, and a sectional density (SD) of .242; the 130 grain boat tail spitzer has a BC of .449. These numbers are right in the big game ballpark. And because the 130 grain .270 bullet is fast, it hits hard. Factory energy figures look like this: muzzle energy (ME) of 2,705 ft. lbs., 100 yard energy of 2,226 ft. lbs., 200 yard energy of 1,817 ft. lbs., 300 yard energy of 1,468 ft. lbs., and 400 yard energy of 1,175 ft. lbs.

These figures show that the .270 hits as hard with a 130 grain bullet as the .308 Winchester does with a 165 grain bullet at all ranges. (A .30 caliber 165 grain bullet has a similar sectional density to the .270 caliber 130 grain bullet.) The .30-06/165 grain bullet hits a little harder than the .270/130 grain bullet at the muzzle, but at 400 yards they are almost even. And the .270 definitely shoots flatter than either of its .30 caliber rivals. According to Remington figures, at 300 yards the .270/130 grain bullet has about 1.7 inches less drop than the .30-06/165 grain bullet, and about 1.9 inches less drop than the .308/165 grain bullet.

[Guest GunTroll]

.280 Remington....accept no substitutes!

Put an AI behind that and I'm with you! I got a 280 Ackley Improved and love it!

[Guest GunTroll]

Lets hijack even more and bash the 270! Or better yet the the diameter! 6.8mm is so close to 7mm but so far from it at the same time. I'd rather go down from 6.8mm to 6.5 if I had to.

How bout 6-06 or 6.5-06? Great cartridges. Yeah I like odd balls!

[Guest Muttling]

Sorry, Smith.....I'm not basing my info on theoretical crap but actual field tests.

Having taken a number of white tails with BOTH cartridges, the .308 in a 168 grain BTHP outperforms ANY .270 for hitting power.

As I posted above, the .270 is certainly the better performer on trajectory

P.S. - All staying in good fun and respect my friend.

[Guest Muttling]

Lets hijack even more and bash the 270! Or better yet the the diameter! 6.8mm is so close to 7mm but so far from it at the same time. I'd rather go down from 6.8mm to 6.5 if I had to.

How bout 6-06 or 6.5-06? Great cartridges. Yeah I like odd balls!

Yeah....But what about my beloved .270 Wby Mag?

Run that baby up from warp speed to ludicrus speed and it does some damage while flying flatter than my ex-wife's chest.

(Needless to say, my ccw is a .357 mag.)

[Warbird]

Yeah....But what about my beloved .270 Wby Mag?

Run that baby up from warp speed to ludicrus speed and it does some damage while flying flatter than my ex-wife's chest.

(Needless to say, my ccw is a .357 mag.)

Oh that's cold.

Try as I might I do not like Wby Mags.

Now if you really want to talk BIG GAME rifles we could compare the merits of the 375, 416, 470 and 500. I prefer the 416 Rem. It kicks less than a 375, can kill just about anything and though I love the 416 Rigby, the 416 Rem is far cheaper to shoot for the same basic ballistics.

[Guest Muttling]

Oh that's cold.

I know it's cold and I apologize to the round. It's a LOT hotter than my ex.

As for BIG game rounds, I don't hunt anything that requires a back hoe or butchering/ quartering in the field to get it home.....but an AT-4 would be a good pick. Kill em and quarter them all in the same shot.

[Guest Glocked-N-Loaded]

.270Win

[I_Like_Pie]

Here is the ultimate (but true) hijack.

A analogy on people who "know a lot" about motorcycles....

Generally those who can spend 30 minutes rattling off every specification about 30 different models down to the weight of X part in grams generally have no practical knowledge about the use of these products to save their lives.

Same things with rifle cartridges...sorry but if one can make a 30 minute conversation about everything that happened in the past 100 years of firearm development and why "X" cartridge is the cure all....they no practical knowledge about any of it and would benefit from some time spent actually shooting said cartridges rather than talking about them.

[Guest Glocked-N-Loaded]

Here is the ultimate (but true) hijack.

A analogy on people who "know a lot" about motorcycles....

Generally those who can spend 30 minutes rattling off every specification about 30 different models down to the weight of X part in grams generally have no practical knowledge about the use of these products to save their lives.

Same things with rifle cartridges...sorry but if one can make a 30 minute conversation about everything that happened in the past 100 years of firearm development and why "X" cartridge is the cure all....they no practical knowledge about any of it and would benefit from some time spent actually shooting said cartridges rather than talking about them.

It's pointless to try and make sense of it, opinions are like..... well you get the drift, and in all matters of opinion, debate is futile.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

I feel (Opinion injected here), that if the OP wanted to upgrade to another caliber, for general all round perfomance, the .308 is the one that is hard to beat (along with the '06). First off most of the rounds that have been mentioned in this thread are barrel burners and have short barrel life, where as the .308 and 30-06 have up to three times the barrel life of the others.. most magnums.. 1200-1500 rounds tops. 308 = 3500 - 5000 rounds depending on load.. anything that shoots fast and flat will not last all that long.. 1500 rounds tops.. so if the OP wants to base is upgrade decision on something.. I would consider all round usefullness and barrel life.

[Warbird]

I feel (Opinion injected here), that if the OP wanted to upgrade to another caliber, for general all round perfomance, the .308 is the one that is hard to beat (along with the '06). First off most of the rounds that have been mentioned in this thread are barrel burners and have short barrel life, where as the .308 and 30-06 have up to three times the barrel life of the others.. most magnums.. 1200-1500 rounds tops. 308 = 3500 - 5000 rounds depending on load.. anything that shoots fast and flat will not last all that long.. 1500 rounds tops.. so if the OP wants to base is upgrade decision on something.. I would consider all round usefullness and barrel life.

To be honest when I first read this post I scoffed at it. But the more I think about it the more valid the point becomes.

The problem goes back to the fact that we really have no understanding of the needs of the OP. So now we are really just having conversations.

I am not a plinker. I do not like to go to the range and shoot a hundred shots of a rifle. My purpose in going generally is to make sure my hunting rifle is sighted in for the purpose I will need it next. I may, if it is a rifle I have not fully experimented with, run several different bullet weights through it of different manufacturers to see how it reacts to those loads.

I will fire it from the bench, I will take a few shots offhand with a sling, probably a few with shooting sticks standing and sitting to reacquaint myself with the feel of that rifle. I will fire no more than 5 times without letting it cool off. In the mean time I might do the same with a couple of different rifles at once or shoot a 22 or 17 for fun.

Shooting at paper doesn't do much for me. I did that in comps for years and that was probably more because my wife liked it so much and she loved shooting long distances all day long. The only time I shoot a lot is in defensive pistol practice or with shotguns at sporting clays.

However, on days when I am introducing someone to shooting or for any reason will be shooting a lot I will likely grab my 308 Mannlicher or 308 Mauser. They have thousands of rounds through them, my usual hunting rifles mostly have a few hundred. If that is the OP's purpose, Magnum rounds for a number of reasons are not a good choice. It isn't just the barrels life cycle, it's the barrels daily cycle. You just don't go shoot a box of ammo through a magnum rifle in a couple of hours. Not if you want it to last long.

[Warbird]

Here is the ultimate (but true) hijack.

A analogy on people who "know a lot" about motorcycles....

Generally those who can spend 30 minutes rattling off every specification about 30 different models down to the weight of X part in grams generally have no practical knowledge about the use of these products to save their lives.

Same things with rifle cartridges...sorry but if one can make a 30 minute conversation about everything that happened in the past 100 years of firearm development and why "X" cartridge is the cure all....they no practical knowledge about any of it and would benefit from some time spent actually shooting said cartridges rather than talking about them.

Well I guess there is too much info and there is also too little info. Making a suggestion that any one caliber is a panacea for everything is absurd to being with.

As I stated earlier I have personally never even see a rifle which will shoot all of the range of possible loads and bullet weights for its cartridge accurately. To simply state anything is the best possible one rifle cartridge is stating generally, that you have little experience with anything related or have experience with only one thing which you are extremely comfortable with and that's all you know.

But, in the end it is a detriment to underthink or overthink the choices. Gun lover are this way by nature though I am convinced of that. I meet thousands a year and few look at things with great objectivity. They love to sit and debate ad nauseum on calibers, ballistics and what not. And yes some really really get into it.

Me personally, I know the basics in my head. After that I will have to look it up on reference as to what the drop will be on a particular bullet weight and load combo for the next several hundred yards. Or the velocities of loads and every single cartridge under the sun with its power ratings. It just doesn't interest me to keep it all in my head. Some absorb that stuff and they are extremely knowledgeable and experienced and some are not. It generally doesn't take long to know which is which. Some just comes from being around the right people and experience. Some of it you just retain over time. What I love to know is the history of guns, rifles, great shooters, great hunters etc. I do get a kick out of that. I will leave the great debates over caliber fights and velocity and power ratings to others. There are parameters and those are facts, the minutiae of the absolute best choice is speculation at best. I only worry about knowing specifically what I need to to serve my next purpose.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Warbird

[I_Like_Pie]

Agreed 100%

Very well written...Kudos

[Guest Muttling]

The .308 and the .30-06 are certainly outstanding rounds. I have hunted with both and dearly love them.

[Sidewinder]

I have a 243 winchester and i have had it for 3 years.what would be a good step up from my 243?

Sure wish it were a Savage Model 110 in .243. I'd be glad to take it off your hands.

Why do they call it common sense, when it's so uncommon? TN Sen. Fred Thompson

[Cherokee Slim]

Sure wish it were a Savage Model 110 in .243. I'd be glad to take it off your hands.

Why do they call it common sense, when it's so uncommon? TN Sen. Fred Thompson

That is a common model sold by Walmart. It's where I got mine. I've put it to good use several times.

Cherokee Slim

[bvarnell]

All great suggestions, get what you feel most comfortable with.

I am a little surprised that no one mentioned the 7mm-08. A necked down .308 with a lighter bullet for less recoil.

More than enough power for anything east of the rockies.

[Guest Muttling]

+1 for the .308. I've been hunting with one for over 25 years and I LOVE that cartridge.

[Guest GunTroll]

All great suggestions, get what you feel most comfortable with.

I am a little surprised that no one mentioned the 7mm-08. A necked down .308 with a lighter bullet for less recoil.

More than enough power for anything east of the rockies.

In the rockies as well with todays modern bullets with range limitations (keeping energy loss in mind). The .284 (7mm) bullet is hands down better than any .308 bullet ,IMO of course.

Edited November 7, 2009 by GunTroll

[Sidewinder]

I have a 243 winchester and i have had it for 3 years.what would be a good step up from my 243?

If you want to sell it, I'm interested in buying or trading. PM me. Thanks... I'm looking for a .243.

[Sidewinder]

That is a common model sold by Walmart. It's where I got mine. I've put it to good use several times.

Cherokee Slim

Thanks Cherokee Slim. Looks like you've got the pork chops on the way! Yea, i've talked to the guy at the Murfreesboro Old Fort WM about the gun. They can order me one with scope for $375 plus tax and TICS. So, out the door with a brand new gun is a tad over $400, so maybe that's what I'll have to do. I was just hoping to either work up a trade on my sharp Marlin .30-30, or else buy one outright in the used condition. I'd like to get one all sighted in before the opening day of deer season. If you know of anyone willing to part with theirs, I'd like to take a look at it. Thanks again.

[Sidewinder]

Well, being as we have hijacked the heck out of this guy's thread... here's more on rifles...specifically .243 rifles. Just bought a Howa 1500 in .243 a couple of days ago. Gun looks good, but haven't shot it yet... and won't get to for some time! I got on the net poking around and found a safety recall on the bolt! Called my s/n in, and sure enough, it hasn't been modified...fixed.

The safety recall is quite a few yeard old, so I'm thinking, surely mine has been done, but it hadn't been! Fortunately, I don't have to send the entire gun, just the bolt. They send a "free" mailer package, and the work is free. You're just down the creek about shooting your gun for 3 weeks to who knows how long. So, if you have a Howa bolt action, or have friends with one, the gun is not supposed to be fired again... until the bolt has been modified!!! I don't have the link, or i'd post it.

Other than that little surprise, are there any others that any of you Howa 1500 owners know about? I'd be interested in any comments good or bad about the Howa 1500 .243 from someone that has actually owned one, and shot one a lor... especially in a hunting (deer or coyote) situation. Thanks.

Why do they call it common sense, when it's so uncommon? TN Sen. Fred Thompson

[Guest 22-rimfire]

270, 308, or 30-06 would be my advice as well depending on what you are going to use the rifle for. The 25-06 is not a bad caliber and ammunition is available.