Disagree with Obama? You're obviously a racist!

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/opinion/13dowd.html?bl&ex=1252987200&en=294d3085ac11979c&ei=5087%0A

The normally nonchalant Barack Obama looked nonplussed, as Nancy Pelosi glowered behind.

Surrounded by middle-aged white guys — a sepia snapshot of the days when such pols ran Washington like their own men’s club — Joe Wilson yelled “You lie!†at a president who didn’t.

But, fair or not, what I heard was an unspoken word in the air: You lie, boy!

The outburst was unexpected from a milquetoast Republican backbencher from South Carolina who had attracted little media attention. Now it has made him an overnight right-wing hero, inspiring “You lie!†bumper stickers and T-shirts.

The congressman, we learned, belonged to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, led a 2000 campaign to keep the Confederate flag waving above South Carolina’s state Capitol and denounced as a “smear†the true claim of a black woman that she was the daughter of Strom Thurmond, the ’48 segregationist candidate for president. Wilson clearly did not like being lectured and even rebuked by the brainy black president presiding over the majestic chamber.

I’ve been loath to admit that the shrieking lunacy of the summer — the frantic efforts to paint our first black president as the Other, a foreigner, socialist, fascist, Marxist, racist, Commie, Nazi; a cad who would snuff old people; a snake who would indoctrinate kids — had much to do with race.

I tended to agree with some Obama advisers that Democratic presidents typically have provoked a frothing response from paranoids — from Father Coughlin against F.D.R. to Joe McCarthy against Truman to the John Birchers against J.F.K. and the vast right-wing conspiracy against Bill Clinton.

But Wilson’s shocking disrespect for the office of the president — no Democrat ever shouted “liar†at W. when he was hawking a fake case for war in Iraq — convinced me: Some people just can’t believe a black man is president and will never accept it.

“A lot of these outbursts have to do with delegitimizing him as a president,†said Congressman Jim Clyburn, a senior member of the South Carolina delegation. Clyburn, the man who called out Bill Clinton on his racially tinged attacks on Obama in the primary, pushed Pelosi to pursue a formal resolution chastising Wilson.

“In South Carolina politics, I learned that the olive branch works very seldom,†he said. “You have to come at these things from a position of strength. My father used to say, ‘Son, always remember that silence gives consent.’ â€

Barry Obama of the post-’60s Hawaiian ’hood did not live through the major racial struggles in American history. Maybe he had a problem relating to his white basketball coach or catching a cab in New York, but he never got beaten up for being black.

Now he’s at the center of a period of racial turbulence sparked by his ascension. Even if he and the coterie of white male advisers around him don’t choose to openly acknowledge it, this president is the ultimate civil rights figure — a black man whose legitimacy is constantly challenged by a loco fringe.

For two centuries, the South has feared a takeover by blacks or the feds. In Obama, they have both.

The state that fired the first shot of the Civil War has now given us this: Senator Jim DeMint exhorted conservatives to “break†the president by upending his health care plan. Rusty DePass, a G.O.P. activist, said that a gorilla that escaped from a zoo was “just one of Michelle’s ancestors.†Lovelorn Mark Sanford tried to refuse the president’s stimulus money. And now Joe Wilson.

“A good many people in South Carolina really reject the notion that we’re part of the union,†said Don Fowler, the former Democratic Party chief who teaches politics at the University of South Carolina. He observed that when slavery was destroyed by outside forces and segregation was undone by civil rights leaders and Congress, it bred xenophobia.

“We have a lot of people who really think that the world’s against us,†Fowler said, “so when things don’t happen the way we like them to, we blame outsiders.†He said a state legislator not long ago tried to pass a bill to nullify any federal legislation with which South Carolinians didn’t agree. Shades of John C. Calhoun!

It may be President Obama’s very air of elegance and erudition that raises hackles in some. “My father used to say to me, ‘Boy, don’t get above your raising,’ †Fowler said. “Some people are prejudiced anyway, and then they look at his education and mannerisms and get more angry at him.â€

Clyburn had a warning for Obama advisers who want to forgive Wilson, ignore the ignorant outbursts and move on: “They’re going to have to develop ways in this White House to deal with things and not let them fester out there. Otherwise, they’ll see numbers moving in the wrong direction.â€

Of course! Obama is so right the only reason anyone would disagee with them is the hatred for his skin color! It all makes sense now.....

Oh, and let's not ignore the racial sterotype comment of "Surrounded by middle-aged white guys — a sepia snapshot of the days when such pols ran Washington like their own men’s club", but it's ok because you're talking about white folk.

And they wonder why papers aren't selling?

[Guest tnvolfan]

You know, it was OBAMA who, when his professor buddy was arrested by the police, first said he didn't have all the facts but that the police acted "stupidly." Who's the racist here? If you really want to read OBAMA's racist beginnings, next time you're in Wal-Mart, skim through his book, "Dreams of My Father." and you'll see just how deep it goes. If our country survives four years of his tyranny, it will be by the grace of God.

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

I'm a racist? You have opened my eyes. I better get busy hating all the black folk around here. I've never liked the way my neighbor charlie mows his lawn, now that you mention it. His choice of beer is questionable too. While we are on the subject; he does barbecue ribs an awful lot. Hmmm.

Racist? Yeah. I'll get right on that.

[BrasilNuts]

Sigh... I guess since I'm a white male I'm just going to go and start sewing a red R for "racist" on the left breast of all of my clothes...

Edit: What was I thinking... I don't need a red R to let every one know I am a racist, the color of my skin does that already.

Edited September 18, 2009 by BrasilNuts

[memphismason]

[Guest SUNTZU]

We have to break through this racism, which, of course, is white people being racist to black people.

And I stole that card, memphis.

Edited September 18, 2009 by SUNTZU

[Guest tnvolfan]

You know, I am so sick of this. I'm sick of Jimmy Carter irresponsibly sticking his nose out and making things even worse. I'm really surprised at Bill Cosby -- we are all racists now? He sure has profitted from all us white racists who watched his programs, bought his show tickets, and laughed WITH HIM, NOT AT HIM. They've all profitted from the obvious racism we exude. This is going to be the longest four years ever!

[Guest PapaB]

Racists? Why not? Since the administration already labeled us terrorists we might as well be racist terrorists. Actually, I guess we're teabagging, redneck, racist, terrorist, angry mobs of brown shirts. Did I miss anything? I'd hate for my resume to be incomplete.

Maybe I'll just stick with Patriotic, flag waving, Constitution loving, proud American.

[extremescene]

Sigh... I guess since I'm a white male I'm just going to go and start sewing a red R for "racist" on the left breast of all of my clothes...

Edit: What was I thinking... I don't need a red R to let every one know I am a racist, the color of my skin does that already.

All due respect... The rebel flag on your profile pic does that just as well.

Edited September 18, 2009 by extremescene

[MikeW]

All due respect... The rebel flag on your profile pic does that just as well.

100% Disagree

[Guest SUNTZU]

All due respect... The rebel flag on your profile pic does that just as well.

You own a gun therefore you are a baby killer and a terrorist. I know this because the TV told me so.

[memphismason]

All due respect... The rebel flag on your profile pic does that just as well.

history lesson time?

[memphismason]

Racists? Why not? Since the administration already labeled us terrorists we might as well be racist terrorists. Actually, I guess we're teabagging, redneck, racist, terrorist, angry mobs of brown shirts. Did I miss anything? I'd hate for my resume to be incomplete.

Maybe I'll just stick with Patriotic, flag waving, Constitution loving, proud American.

[extremescene]

history lesson time?

I'm down. I took my history classes in TN, in a state funded school.

For the record, I don't agree with the original article by any means.

Edited September 18, 2009 by extremescene

[BrasilNuts]

All due respect... The rebel flag on your profile pic does that just as well.

Edit: Nevermind...it's not worth it.

On second thought... forget the red R on my clothes... your post has given me an idea... I'll just sew a Confederate battle flag on my chest, after all it is the universal symbol of evil and hate.

Edited September 18, 2009 by BrasilNuts

[Guest Hyaloid]

If you guys want to discuss the issue of race... then I am for it. However, at the first sign of things getting out of hand, this thread and it's participants will be subject to moderation quickly.

So, we can give it a shot, but don't think we are going to solve the issues at hand on this forum, you may have to agree to disagree... just attack the issue(s), not the people, keep it civil and keep it clean. If you cannot do so, then don't post.

Good luck, and have at it!

[Metalhead]

Cake > Pie

am i rite?

[memphismason]

Cake > Pie

am i rite?

I like pie better.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

You know.. this morning.. Triple H was on the radio spewing this crap as well.. I have gotten to the point that I don't like Mr. Hilton Hill..

[Mark@Sea]

To automatically assume that all whites are inherently racist is... Anyone? Anyone? Buehler?

To debate dishonestly, ignoring the facts that don't support your position, attacking your opponents integrity instead of responding to his points, making false accusations in order to focus attention away from your own glaring faults, is.... Anyone? Ralph?

The left have no intent or desire for honest debate. Honesty and integrity are losing tactics for their goals and intentions. They can't debate on the issues, they've got nothing to back their arguments.

I've got no use for liars.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Mark@Sea

[extremescene]

edit: logging off, sorry to ruffle everybody's feathers.

Edited September 18, 2009 by extremescene

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

For the sake of argument, I will deconstruct hers:

Surrounded by middle-aged white guys — a sepia snapshot of the days when such pols ran Washington like their own men’s club — Joe Wilson yelled “You lie!†at a president who didn’t.

Great! Let's start our argument against racists by stereotyping! Great thesis! Obama may or may not have lied, but he was being either totally naive or disingenuous. Either way, Ms. Dowd has set herself up on shaky ground.

But, fair or not, what I heard was an unspoken word in the air: You lie, boy!

Hmm, interesting. You round out your thesis by putting words in the mouth of someone else! Brilliant!

Then Ms. Dowd continues to present Joe Wilson's past associations to label him as a racist. Fair enough. We do it to Obama. I'm not saying she's right, but this is the only legitimate part of the article.

But then, her fall from legitimacy, she makes an outrageous unfounded claim:

I’ve been loath to admit that the shrieking lunacy of the summer — the frantic efforts to paint our first black president as the Other, a foreigner, socialist, fascist, Marxist, racist, Commie, Nazi; a cad who would snuff old people; a snake who would indoctrinate kids — had much to do with race.

Really? So if an apple is an apple, and an orange is an orange, an orange is an apple! Wonderful logic there! And how does she substantiate these claims?

I tended to agree with some Obama advisers that Democratic presidents typically have provoked a frothing response from paranoids — from Father Coughlin against F.D.R. to Joe McCarthy against Truman to the John Birchers against J.F.K. and the vast right-wing conspiracy against Bill Clinton.

Blame the right-wing conspiracy! Oh, wait. They attacked white presidents too? I'm confused.

But Wilson’s shocking disrespect for the office of the president — no Democrat ever shouted “liar†at W. when he was hawking a fake case for war in Iraq — convinced me: Some people just can’t believe a black man is president and will never accept it.

Ok, so you assert Bush was lying. Another outlandish accusation, but let's run with it. No, they never heckled him over Iraq, but the were just as misbehaved to Bush.

I don't know about you, but I heard "liar" in that outburst. Ms. Dowd either conveniently forgot or doesn't know how to do research.

She argues a bit more against Joe Wilson. Again, no problem there per se.

Then comes this wonderful statement:

Barry Obama of the post-’60s Hawaiian ’hood did not live through the major racial struggles in American history. Maybe he had a problem relating to his white basketball coach or catching a cab in New York, but he never got beaten up for being black.

And this is relevant, why? So, she argues, that Obama didn't experience true racism. So, its not racism if he doesn't get beat up for it, but I never beat anyone because of their color, but I am still a racist. More apples and oranges logic for you.

Now he’s at the center of a period of racial turbulence sparked by his ascension. Even if he and the coterie of white male advisers around him don’t choose to openly acknowledge it, this president is the ultimate civil rights figure — a black man whose legitimacy is constantly challenged by a loco fringe.

Which advisers? Are all of them white? What about female advisers? Or can only white men be racist? (That assertion in and of itself being racist.)

For two centuries, the South has feared a takeover by blacks or the feds. In Obama, they have both.

The state that fired the first shot of the Civil War has now given us this: Senator Jim DeMint exhorted conservatives to “break†the president by upending his health care plan. Rusty DePass, a G.O.P. activist, said that a gorilla that escaped from a zoo was “just one of Michelle’s ancestors.†Lovelorn Mark Sanford tried to refuse the president’s stimulus money. And now Joe Wilson.

Yes! More apples and oranges! I voted for a GOP candidate before and watched SC play football on tv, that must mean I'm racist!

“A good many people in South Carolina really reject the notion that we’re part of the union,†said Don Fowler, the former Democratic Party chief who teaches politics at the University of South Carolina. He observed that when slavery was destroyed by outside forces and segregation was undone by civil rights leaders and Congress, it bred xenophobia.

And what poll is Mr. Fowler basing this on? Oh, his own observations? And by being an obviously bias politics professor makes him quite the expert. What about a psychology professor? Or perhaps a history professor? Nope, just the observations of a democrat-leaning politics professor.

“We have a lot of people who really think that the world’s against us,†Fowler said, “so when things don’t happen the way we like them to, we blame outsiders.†He said a state legislator not long ago tried to pass a bill to nullify any federal legislation with which South Carolinians didn’t agree. Shades of John C. Calhoun!

Apparently Mr. Fowler never taught logic or civics. Apparently any state's rights issues must be because of race and xenophobia!

It may be President Obama’s very air of elegance and erudition that raises hackles in some. “My father used to say to me, ‘Boy, don’t get above your raising,’ †Fowler said. “Some people are prejudiced anyway, and then they look at his education and mannerisms and get more angry at him.â€

Wait. So now judging someone by their education and mannerisms is fuel to the racist fire! I guess every employer in the US is a racist!

Ok, Ms. Dowd, your argument has more holes than swiss cheese. I'm not even a professional journalist or columnist and I can see your sloppy writing and shining ignorance.

And to think, this passes for an editorial these days.....

[E4 No More]

For the sake of argument, I will deconstruct hers:

Great! Let's start our argument against racists by stereotyping! Great thesis! Obama may or may not have lied, but he was being either totally naive or disingenuous. Either way, Ms. Dowd has set herself up on shaky ground.

Hmm, interesting. You round out your thesis by putting words in the mouth of someone else! Brilliant!

Then Ms. Dowd continues to present Joe Wilson's past associations to label him as a racist. Fair enough. We do it to Obama. I'm not saying she's right, but this is the only legitimate part of the article.

But then, her fall from legitimacy, she makes an outrageous unfounded claim:

Really? So if an apple is an apple, and an orange is an orange, an orange is an apple! Wonderful logic there! And how does she substantiate these claims?

Blame the right-wing conspiracy! Oh, wait. They attacked white presidents too? I'm confused.

Ok, so you assert Bush was lying. Another outlandish accusation, but let's run with it. No, they never heckled him over Iraq, but the were just as misbehaved to Bush.

I don't know about you, but I heard "liar" in that outburst. Ms. Dowd either conveniently forgot or doesn't know how to do research.

She argues a bit more against Joe Wilson. Again, no problem there per se.

Then comes this wonderful statement:

And this is relevant, why? So, she argues, that Obama didn't experience true racism. So, its not racism if he doesn't get beat up for it, but I never beat anyone because of their color, but I am still a racist. More apples and oranges logic for you.

Which advisers? Are all of them white? What about female advisers? Or can only white men be racist? (That assertion in and of itself being racist.)

Yes! More apples and oranges! I voted for a GOP candidate before and watched SC play football on tv, that must mean I'm racist!

And what poll is Mr. Fowler basing this on? Oh, his own observations? And by being an obviously bias politics professor makes him quite the expert. What about a psychology professor? Or perhaps a history professor? Nope, just the observations of a democrat-leaning politics professor.

Apparently Mr. Fowler never taught logic or civics. Apparently any state's rights issues must be because of race and xenophobia!

Wait. So now judging someone by their education and mannerisms is fuel to the racist fire! I guess every employer in the US is a racist!

Ok, Ms. Dowd, your argument has more holes than swiss cheese. I'm not even a professional journalist or columnist and I can see your sloppy writing and shining ignorance.

And to think, this passes for an editorial these days.....

You should email her this and challenge her to post it.

[greenego]

Every time I hear someone called racist for being against O'Bama I can't help but to think of the story of the boy that cried wolf. After awhile no one will pay attention.

[Guest bang-flash]