Al Sharpton, Where Are You?!

[Guest SUNTZU]

Tape shows beating on bus of Belleville West student - STLtoday.com

BELLEVILLE — A Belleville West High School student was beaten aboard a bus on the way to school Monday, and a police spokesman said the beating could be racially motivated.

The 17-year-old victim was white and the teen assailants were black. Police released a video of the beating, which shows the victim being punched repeatedly while other students on the bus gather to watch, some cheering. It doesn't appear that the victim did anything to provoke an attack and tried only to defend himself. Police said it all unfolded in a five-minute span.

The victim was trying to find a seat and was told by two students he could not sit next to them, police said.

As he walked to the seat, someone shouted, "Beat his ass."

More at link....

[TripleDigitRide]

He's busy consoling Kanye West.

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

of course it was racially motivated.

[BryanP]

The police chief who initially said it was racially motivated is now backing off from that statement.

[Mark@Sea]

There was no right-wing political agenda involved, of course it can't be racially motivated.

Geez, get with the program!

[Smith]

How the heck does the kid who got beat et suspended?!

[Guest SUNTZU]

How the heck does the kid who got beat et suspended?!

You don't understand because you don't Believe.

[BryanP]

How the heck does the kid who got beat et suspended?!

Stupid zero-tolerance rules in our school systems. If there's a fight all parties involved are suspended.

[Guest tnjimbob]

I bet this would not be considered a hate crime.

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

Since a black person can't be convicted of a hate crime, they feel free to commit them.

[Guest Muttling]

How the heck does the kid who got beat et suspended?!

As a teacher who deals with this regularly, here's the deal....

Kids like to stir up crap. They enjoy the attention of being at the center of drama. We often have "victims" who weren't so innocent. They want to run their mouths, but claim total innocence when they get hit.

Our solution is zero tolerance. If you're in a fight, you're gonna get suspended from school...end of story. We're not playing the he said, she said game.

If you are the attacker, there can be a LOT stiffer penalties for the fight. We will prosecute a crime of assault if we can and we can send attackers to alternative school. I am hoping that these attackers get charged criminally.

It's not that we're punishing both equally. It's more that we're not failing to punish anyone who is involved in a fight.

[Smith]

As a teacher who deals with this regularly, here's the deal....

Kids like to stir up crap. They enjoy the attention of being at the center of drama. We often have "victims" who weren't so innocent. They want to run their mouths, but claim total innocence when they get hit.

Our solution is zero tolerance. If you're in a fight, you're gonna get suspended from school...end of story. We're not playing the he said, she said game.

If you are the attacker, there can be a LOT stiffer penalties for the fight. We will prosecute a crime of assault if we can and we can send attackers to alternative school. I am hoping that these attackers get charged criminally.

It's not that we're punishing both equally. It's more that we're not failing to punish anyone who is involved in a fight.

Did you see the video? Would he have been suspended for whatever he did had he not been beaten? This is part of our schools problem. How can they expect kids to use good judgment of right and wrong when their administrators can't make simple judgment calls on a case by case basis themselves. Of course it's much easier to just punish everyone and call it done. Blanket policy deosn't teach anything. It only reinforces how to work the system.

[Guest SUNTZU]

And its still BS. They started that ZERO TOLERANCE crap my last year of school. I've seen small nerdy kids get jumped and their face pounded by a group of guys and he gets suspended for walking down a hallway and being attacked. Bull. ****!

Just my opinion.

Quick google search...

OUR HORRIBLE CHILDREN | Zero Tolerance Idiocy In Schools

This one is great...

A dissenting student hounded for his views - Washington Times

[Guest Muttling]

I tell you what.

You guys sound like you are confident in how well you know it and we NEED more teachers. Why don't you put your name on the dotted line and come do it?

You wanna say what the rules SHOULD be and how much better YOU could make it. Cool. I'm calling you out, come work with me and show me how to do it.

[Smith]

I tell you what.

You guys sound like you are confident in how well you know it and we NEED more teachers. Why don't you put your name on the dotted line and come do it?

You wanna say what the rules SHOULD be and how much better YOU could make it. Cool. I'm calling you out, come work with me and show me how to do it.

It's already been done. Just like our Constitution we decided we know better than the time proven truths of life and tried alternative math, sight reading, "new" science, zero tolerance, tolerance & diversity training, sex education, etc. I think our test scores and activities of the last couple generations prove the point.

I feel for a lot of our teachers. The bureaucrats have put idealogical policy in place of education and put teachers in positions to fail miserably. The deck is so stacked against you guys it isn't fair.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Muttling, I'm not putting teachers down AT ALL. Its the Zero Tolerance policy that I don't agree with. Trying to teach these kids with what little support you get, not to mention monetary compensation, is a laudable occupation. When I was in school, it was strange to go from peeling an apple with my pocket knife to seeing kids threatened with expulsion for having a plasticware knife for spreading peanut butter. Sorry, I have a problem with that. Never said how much better I could do it, for that matter.

[poak]

I was glad I got the chance to attend a private high school.

I saw more than my fair share of Zero-Tolerance BS in my days in the Metro Public School system...

It was really eye opening to go to a school that didn't enforce Zero Tolerance.

It wasn't uncommon for students to have a pocket knife clipped to their pocket at my high school. I can tell you w/ 100% certainty there has never been a crime or act of violence committed at that school w/ a knife. Fist fights weren't entirely uncommon, and they were dealt w/ on a case by case basis, often a trip to the Dean's office and an appropriate amount of detention time.

[Guest Muttling]

It's already been done. Just like our Constitution we decided we know better than the time proven truths of life and tried alternative math, sight reading, "new" science, zero tolerance, tolerance & diversity training, sex education, etc. I think our test scores and activities of the last couple generations prove the point.

Check the numbers again my friend.

The 1980's was a low mark, but today's kids take advanced math and science courses at twice the rate of any previous generation.

Heck, the "Greatest Generation" had to include math classes as part of basic training for WWII recruits to find enough soldiers to be artillerymen, navigators, book keepers, etc.

Our drop out rates are way down, our test scores are way up, and our advance courses enrollment is way up. If the incoming generation sucks so bad, why are they passing calculus at rates our country has never seen before?

Heck, this year's high school freshemn MUST have pre-calculus just to graduate. (It's part of the NEW Algebra II curiculim. A class that wasn't even required when you and I graduated.)

[Smith]

The 80's was also the high mark of "alternative" methods. coming full circle is not an accomplishment as much as it is common sense. Again this doesn't have much to do with the teachers but rather the burocracies and unions pushing too much political ideology as opposed to education. Your taking this way to personal. My mom, aunt, wife, sister-in-law, and dad have all had teaching jobs in some form.

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

It is ultimately the parents fault. Teachers have it pretty hard, and kids are evil geniuses. I can see it in my kids and my kids friends. I have taught them that plenty of trouble will come their way unasked for, and not to go finding it.

There is a real problem here. It needs to be dealt with because it is not going to go away. It is just going to grow up.

[Guest Muttling]

Muttling, I'm not putting teachers down AT ALL. Its the Zero Tolerance policy that I don't agree with. Trying to teach these kids with what little support you get, not to mention monetary compensation, is a laudable occupation. When I was in school, it was strange to go from peeling an apple with my pocket knife to seeing kids threatened with expulsion for having a plasticware knife for spreading peanut butter. Sorry, I have a problem with that. Never said how much better I could do it, for that matter.

I understand what you're saying, but you don't understand the situation and why zero tolerance is required. What's more, teachings is not JUST teaching. You can't get anything done without classroom management and that's what we're discussing. Classroom management is THE skill that allows everything else to happen.

With respect to management and discipline, times have changed. Less than 10% of my students live with 2 parents and more than 30% don't live with their parents at all. Instead, they live with grandparents, siblings, foster care, and one who lives alone. Their behavior reflects this fact.

Kids are NEVER wrong unless we can absolutely prove it and even then we have a fight. In my days, parents expect some proof but not proven beyond the shadow of a doubt type evidence. Now they expect beyond a doubt and kids take advantage of it.

I have 2 right now that I am VERY worried about. They are drama fanatics and LOVE to be in the middle of a conflict. Both are freshmen runts and both are running up crap with upper classmen who are far bigger than they are. We are trying HARD to head it off, but it's not working because they love to stir up crap. (The only saving grace we have is that these particular upper classmen are very mature.)

One (probably both) is going to keep running their mouth until the other student has finally had enough and unloads on them. Then they will come running saying, "I am totally innocent......It's not my fault...... He hit first." They will be full of crap, but a video like the one linked will be all the evidence you see.

If we don't have the policy of "You're in a fight, you're suspended. END OF STORY", we're going to be arguing with the parents who believe Johnny is a little angel no matter what. What's more, little Johnny the Drama Queen is gonna love it cause he's the center of drama. He gets all the attention from his peers and from his parents with ZERO consequences.

It's pure and simple discipline. It's gotta be straight up with no grey areas or it doesn't work.

As for the attackers......As I mentioned before, they risk criminal charges and we charged 2 with assault last school year. It seems to me like the attackers in the video linked need to be charged and might deserve time in Juvenile.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Muttling

[Guest Muttling]

The 80's was also the high mark of "alternative" methods. coming full circle is not an accomplishment as much as it is common sense. Again this doesn't have much to do with the teachers but rather the burocracies and unions pushing too much political ideology as opposed to education. Your taking this way to personal. My mom, aunt, wife, sister-in-law, and dad have all had teaching jobs in some form.

You are quite correct with the 80's, but we're 20 years past that. You understand recent decades well, but look to the decades before. The teaching attitudes of the 80's were a rebirth of what was done in the 20's.

Teachers aren't good a coming up with new methods, we just recycle old ones and give them a new name.

Currently, we're on a cycle that works pretty well. High expectations, standardized testing, and serious intervention for students who are underperforming. The intervention part is the big problem because doing that costs money and we struggle to fund doing the regular day to day stuff without any interventions.

As for "too Personal", I don't think I can take it too personally and still be a good teacher. My students perform well and those who don't catch hell in many ways. I get a bit of an attitude when people say "today's students aren't as good as..." because it's a lie and I would stand on the floor of Congress saying "You Lie" if Obama said it about my students.

You would cheer me if I said this to Obama on health care, but say I take it too personal when it comes to the students I meet every day????

[Guest Muttling]

It is ultimately the parents fault. Teachers have it pretty hard, and kids are evil geniuses. I can see it in my kids and my kids friends. I have taught them that plenty of trouble will come their way unasked for, and not to go finding it.

There is a real problem here. It needs to be dealt with because it is not going to go away. It is just going to grow up.

This is what I tried to get at with my post that immediately follows yours.

Kids have ALWAYS been evil geniuses and willing to go as far as they possibly can. We did it, our parents did it, and our kids are doing it.

The kids haven't changed, but the parents willingness to crack down has. I have many GREAT parents and a couple that I consider to be overbearing.

I also have many who won't draw the line and it creates a REAL problem for me trying to draw the line. In the end, I have to be overly harsh to make it work. If I'm not, the kids chuckle at my efforts and go on with their behavior. In some cases, they will even do it blatantly in front of me to look big before their peers.

So much of this is things that only the worst of the worst did in the 1980's (when I was a teen) and they got cracked down hard on for doing it.

It's a different world and it requires different rules to make a classroom work. Unfortunately, zero tolerance is one of those rules.

[clipslinger]

I believe the issue here is where the hell is the regular line up. The zoo crew, Al, Jesse, etc. All the I heard about was the dam* jenna six for a solid year. If whites had beaten a black theyed be under the jail and the school system would be laying off you teachers to settle out of court. I got a kid who spent two years at Mcgavock high school. Hey teach, go spend a coupla days with the white kids out there and maybe you would learn something.

[Guest Muttling]

I believe the issue here is where the hell is the regular line up. The zoo crew, Al, Jesse, etc. All the I heard about was the dam* jenna six for a solid year. If whites had beaten a black theyed be under the jail and the school system would be laying off you teachers to settle out of court. I got a kid who spent two years at Mcgavock high school. Hey teach, go spend a coupla days with the white kids out there and maybe you would learn something.

News Flash: I teach at a predominantly white school. With very few exceptions, my most difficult kids and my kids from the worst home situations are WHITE. Heck, it's been 2 years since my biggest pain in the butt was a minority.

When I say they're not living with both parents, raised by siblings, raised by grandparents, living alone, etc., I have minorities in that situation but I am mostly talking about WHITE children.

As for "zoo crew", I'm completely with you. Where's the uproar?

Edited September 17, 2009 by Muttling