Stun guns?

[gunner]

Can anyone recommend a good stun gun?Im wanting one for my wife.She's in school 5 days a week so a handgun is out of the question(she also is COMPLETELY apposed to one).Ive looked online at various ones and have no clue on which one work best

[Guest Muttling]

Get her some pepper spray instead. A stun gun requires close quarters and is more difficult to use as well as to conceal.

[gunner]

good idea.....where to buy?

[Punisher84]

Any gun shop should have some. Don't buy the water/pepper crap at the grocery store either.

Buy something like Fox Labs or Sabre.

[gunner]

how about Wildfire?

[BigPoppa]

Gunner, a few thoughts from a multiple certified OC/Chemical Agents instructor and a former TASER instructor.........

Try to stay away from traditional handheld stun guns, which are comparatively weak and require your assailant to already be way too close in to you to be effective. TASER is a better, non-firearm option, but it's going to be pricey.

Pepper spray can be a good option, but don't settle for anything less than law enforcement grade product. I'd say look for sprays produced by Aerko, Defense Technology (Def-Tec), or Sabre.

Pepper spray can be bought at Ace Hardware or the Dollar General store, but all sprays are not created equally. I've been around OC/Chemical Agents stuff for a long time, and had never heard of Wildfire before I just now Googled it, sooo.....

Whatever defensive option you and she choose, avoid purse carry (just like with a handgun, it's a bad idea). Meanwhile, try to open her mind up to at least considering a handgun.

PM me if I can help further.

Edited September 13, 2009 by BigPoppa

[Guest H0TSH0T]

here are a few links .

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2007/07/taser-goes-pink/

Kimber LifeAct Non-Lethal Products - Watch more amazing videos here">

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Edited September 13, 2009 by H0TSH0T

[redfsr]

A can of wasp spray works pretty good too. It's unconventional to use for self defense but works better than a lot of cheap pepper spray. Most cans of wasp pray reach out to 20 feet or better. The size of the can could be a problem though if she carries a small purse.

[Guest 270win]

Fox labs is supposed to be hot stuff. I've given some Fox labs 1 OZ cans to folks i care about who don't want to carry a gun. Females seem to like it because it is similar to other spray products they use around the house.

[Guest PapaB]

I got my wife a can of the gel type by Mace from Academy Sports + Outdoors. It's pretty well rated and cost about $16. The gel shoots out a good distance, sticks to the assailant better and tends not to blow back in your face in the wind. Sabre and Fox Labs are also well rated. I spent 2 days researching online before I bought some. Youtube has several useful display videos, just search "pepper spray".

Watch out for what size can you end up buying, some jurisdictions limit that to so many ounces.

[Guest PapaB]

I forgot to add, many places don't just ban handguns, they ban weapons. If you consider a stun gun make sure it's allowed. Where I've worked in TN, where my wife works and the companies they serve all include stun guns and tasers in their definition of 'weapons'.

[Guest canynracer]

Pepper spray- KIMBER

TASER

stay away from the stun guns...gotta get to close.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Ya'll do realize stun guns and tasers are technically illegal for civilians to carry in Tennessee? The only legal weapons that can be carried are a knife with the blade length of 4in or shorter, a handgun with carry permit, a baton with handgun carry permit and baton certification, or a shotgun or rifle with no round in the chamber in a vehicle. Theres others but ya gotta be a farmer protecting cattle.

Technically you cant even carry pepper spray, but most police officers dont enforce a female carrying it.

I think thats it...

If your going to carry a pepper spray get Freeze +p... its what the police carry.... we have them in small key chains sizes as well, even in pink.

Edited September 18, 2009 by GLOCKMEISTER

[Guest Muttling]

Pepper spray- KIMBER

TASER

stay away from the stun guns...gotta get to close.

+1

[TNRobocop]

Short of using a TASER, hand held "stun guns" are worthless.

The instructors at the state police academy in Oklahoma did a test where the instructors on their own dime went out and bought a sample of every type of non-LE type zappers they could find. Then they used them on each other and catalogued the results.

Long story short, none of them were worth a crap. Most of them just caused small burns and just pissed off the zappee. Worthless for self-defence.

Get a good pepper spray instead like has been stated.

[BigPoppa]

Ya'll do realize stun guns and tasers are technically illegal for civilians to carry in Tennessee? The only legal weapons that can be carried are a knife with the blade length of 4in or shorter, a handgun with carry permit, a baton with handgun carry permit and baton certification, or a shotgun or rifle with no round in the chamber in a vehicle. Theres others but ya gotta be a farmer protecting cattle.

Technically you cant even carry pepper spray, but most police officers dont enforce a female carrying it.

I think thats it...

If your going to carry a pepper spray get Freeze +p... its what the police carry.... we have them in small key chains sizes as well, even in pink.

T.C.A. reference please................

[BigPoppa]

Ya'll do realize stun guns and tasers are technically illegal for civilians to carry in Tennessee? The only legal weapons that can be carried are a knife with the blade length of 4in or shorter, a handgun with carry permit, a baton with handgun carry permit and baton certification, or a shotgun or rifle with no round in the chamber in a vehicle. Theres others but ya gotta be a farmer protecting cattle.

Technically you cant even carry pepper spray, but most police officers dont enforce a female carrying it.

I think thats it...

If your going to carry a pepper spray get Freeze +p... its what the police carry.... we have them in small key chains sizes as well, even in pink.

Baton certification, yes, and not prohibited from purchasing a firearm, doesn't necessarily have to be HCP....thus giving another option to someone who may be opposed to using a firearm for self defense.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

T.C.A. reference please................

Why dont you know your T.C.A., I thought you were still working. I have been out of this for a while and was going by memory, I will however try and expalin it.

You may be correct on the baton thing, all I know is years ago we passed legislation that specifically said "valid handgun carry permit", please call John Harris for clarification if needed. We were trying to change it to anyone that is legal to own a firearm, but I didn't know we actually got it changed. Allots happened in the last 15 years. I'm getting older every day, and theres 15 years of HCP and 20 years of TCA clutter in my head.

Im sorry but im a little too busy to look all this up, so im going by memory.

I think you can still charge anyone with a weapon if, you the officer, believe they are possessing it as a weapon and there isn't a defense specifically defined under the TCA for that item. Right?

So Please reference....

TCA 39-17-1302 under prohibited weapons? I think its section A, subsection 8 that says something like "any instrument thats used to inflict serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose"....

Now Tennessee has starting getting away from "common law" and going more codified. The arrest would come simply due to the officers descretion of what he deemed your intent was. So in short you can be charged with it, but its the States burdon to prove you were carry for the purpose of going armed.

Btw, the courts here in Tn and many other states have ruled that an undefined defensive instrument isn't "common lawful purpose". It depends on the intent.

Now please supply the defense under the TCA for a civilian to carry said Taser/Stun gun or Pepper Spray?

If you cant find it, then theres your answer.

[BigPoppa]

Technically you cant even carry pepper spray, but most police officers dont enforce a female carrying it.

I think thats it...

If your going to carry a pepper spray get Freeze +p... its what the police carry.... we have them in small key chains sizes as well, even in pink.

So, pepper spray is not legal in Tennessee, but you'll be happy to sell it to folks ?

[BigPoppa]

Why dont you know your T.C.A., I thought you were still working. I have been out of this for a while and was going by memory, I will however try and expalin it.

Im sorry but im a little too busy to look all this up, so im going by memory.

I think you can still charge anyone with a weapon if, you the officer, believe they are possessing it as a weapon and there isn't a defense specifically defined under the TCA for that item. Right?

So Please reference....

TCA 39-17-1302 under prohibited weapons? I think its section A, subsection 8 that says something like "any instrument thats used to inflict serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose"....

Btw, the courts here in Tn and many other states have ruled that an undefined defensive instrument isn't "common lawful purpose". It depends on the intent.

Now please supply the defense under the TCA for a civilian to carry said Taser/Stun gun or Pepper Spray?

If you cant find it, then theres your answer.

Well, I thought I did know my TCA.....that's why I thought maybe you could point out something I had missed all these years.

But, you still haven't directed me to where TASER/Stun Gun/Pepper Spray/Chemical Defense Sprays are prohibited under Tennessee law. In fact (unless you're working as a Security Guard) these items under Tennessee law aren't just not prohibited, they're not even mentioned.

IANAL, but if something is not specifically prohibited, then it is allowed. You keep saying these defensive options are "technically" illegal....what does that mean ? Isn't something either legal or not legal ? That's kinda like a woman being "a little bit pregnant".

You mention this in your post:

Any other implement for infliction of serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose.

but the items we are discussing are not designed or intended for SBI or death; they are designed for temporary incapacitation of an attacker when used by law abiding civilians. Hence the name: non-lethal. And, self-defense is clearly a common lawful purpose.

Finally, if pepper spray is "technically" illegal, why would you offer it for sale in your establishment ?

[BigPoppa]

While TASER/Defense Spray/Mace/Stun Gun, et. al. are not mentioned by name, the use of the word "device" and the description that follows can reasonably be inferred to mean them.

And.............if these "devices" are lawful for protection of property, they must certainly be lawful for protection of life.

39-11-616. Use of device to protect property. —

(a) The justification afforded by §§ 39-11-614 and 39-11-615 extends to the use of a device for the purpose of protecting property, only if:

(1) The device is not designed to cause or known to create a substantial risk of causing death or serious bodily harm;

(2) The use of the particular device to protect the property from entry or trespass is reasonable under the circumstances as the person believes them to be; and

(3) The device is one customarily used for such a purpose, or reasonable care is taken to make known to probable intruders the fact that it is used.

( Nothing in this section shall affect the law regarding the use of animals to protect property or persons.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1.]

[GLOCKMEISTER]

So, pepper spray is not legal in Tennessee, but you'll be happy to sell it to folks ?

Its totally legal for us and everyone else to sell it under the same T.C.A. code. You have read the TCA I referenced earlier, right? Like I explained before, its about officer discretion and intent proven in court. Im sure those good people buying spray from me are using it for lawful dramatic performance or scientific research or keeping it inside their home or business for viewing by the public for exhibition purposes.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

your own TCA answered your question. the part where it says "known to create a substantial risk of causeing death or serious bodily harm". It also says the user of the device has to take "reasonable care is taken to make known to a probable intruder that fact the that it is being used.

I think that TCA's intentions here were for security systems, electric fences, and devices of that kind.

Both the Taser and chemical agents are known to have caused death and serious bodily harm in the state of Tennessee. They are both listed as a weapon with every police department that Im aware of in their 'Use of Force Continuum'.

[BigPoppa]

your own TCA answered your question. the part where it says "known to create a substantial risk of causeing death or serious bodily harm". It also says the user of the device has to take "reasonable care is taken to make known to a probable intruder that fact the that it is being used.

I think that TCA's intentions here were for security systems, electric fences, and devices of that kind.

Both the Taser and chemical agents are known to have caused death and serious bodily harm in the state of Tennessee. They are both listed as a weapon with every police department that Im aware of in their 'Use of Force Continuum'.

List some cases where TASER alone and/or an aerosol defense spray alone were determined by autopsy to be the cause of death in a case.

And yes of course, these items are listed in a Force Continuum.......as either "less-than-lethal" or "non-lethal" depending on the agency.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

I've been a cop in TN since '96.

Generally speaking, I know of no State law preventing legal citizens from carrying OC spray and TASERs...neither of which are recognized by the State of TN to cause death or serious bodily injury (if they were, they would be subject to the same guidelines as firearms in LE force continuums).

Edited September 18, 2009 by Todd@CIS