Help me complete my Bug-Out Bag!

[TNTitan]

Ok guys, putting together a bug-out bag for me and the wife. I'm still going through it in my mind, and I'm sure I need to make some changes. I'm no survival expert and I would love some input you guys who know better.

So far I have a single backpack that carries (no particular order):

• Small first aid kit (antiseptic, bandages, needle, thread, aspirin, etc.)
  
• 2 Swiss army knives
  
• Glock 21, Taurus PT145, Ruger SP-101 (100 rds .45, 50 rds .38)
  
• Cash and some pocket change
  
• 1 roll Toilet paper & girl hygiene stuff (in ziplock baggies)
  
• 2 set of clothes (me & her: 2 jeans, 2 sweatshirts, 2 T's socks & undies)
  
• 2 small rain ponchos
  
• 8 cans of chef boyardee, 8 cans of tunafish
  
• Water tablets (enough for 50 liters)
  
• 1 quart thermos
  
• 1 portable camp stove with two 8-hour sterno cans
  
• 2 8 hour emergency candles & 2 lighters
  
• 1 Magnesium Flint & striker
  
• 1 liquid filled compass
  
• 50 Feet of Nylon Rope
  
• 2 pens, 1 pencil, and a notepad
  
• Portable am/fm Radio & Flashlight with hand generator (and batteries)
  
• 2 books: Pocket Outdoor Survival Guide & Edible Wild Plants & Herbs
  
• Detailed laminated map of middle TN
  

Everything sits in the bag packed and ready to go with exception of the 3 pistols which are in their normal places around the house, but I can collect them and toss them in the bag in about 30 seconds.

Right next to the bag is a compact 2-man tent and one -40F sleeping bag (big enough for two, right? ) ready to be grabbed and carried with the bag.

questions:

• What is missing? / also what is there that doesn't need to be?
  
• more ammo? This bag is getting heavy already...
  
• do I include my shotgun & 00 buck in the emergency plan?
  
• not enough food? different food? water?
  

Thanks guys!

Edited September 12, 2009 by TNTitan

[Oh Shoot]

...

• What is missing?...
  

- Consider more water ... I know it's heavy, but it's sort of numero uno.

- couple of space blankies, again only ounce or two each.

- some baby wipes, squish flat into plastic bag

- candles are okay, but no candle "lamp"? Consider a UCO candle lantern, just 2 or three ounces...single candles won't stay lit all by their lonesomes very well. Even the Mini UCO using tealight candles is pretty handy.

- did you mention small flashlights? I know you can't count on batteries for long, but small pocket flash and couple extra sets of batteries can sure make things easier first couple days.

- What's going on top of the little stove? The cans of food?

Consider something to heat water in, small pot or big GI cup. Throw in a few single packs of ramen noodle soup mix. They don't weigh half ounce apiece. Not a heckuva lot of nutrition, but quick carbs and tasty, good spirit booster and insides warmer upper.

- Oh yeah, and maybe a couple of spoons at least?

Just off top o' my bean.

Edited September 12, 2009 by OhShoot

[Guest clsutton21]

Well if you're in the situation that you're in...I don't see why you'd need the cash. Plus I don't think you'd actually NEED the stove with the amount of trees and other things we have in TN. I'd consider packing only one caliber of ammo to save space and add to ease of use. The shotgun really shouldn't be needed because you should be able to kill anything you want to with the .45. I'd pack a larger FA kit, make sure it has a bottle of rubbing alcohol(you can always light it). I'd consider adding a heat blanket, one of those silver ones. One other thing to add would be some small sized tarp.

[TNTitan]

- Consider more water ... I know it's heavy, but it's sort of numero uno.

- couple of space blankies, again only ounce or two each.

- some baby wipes, squish flat into plastic bag

- candles are okay, but no candle "lamp"? Consider a UCO candle lantern, just 2 or three ounces...single candles won't stay lit all by their lonesomes very well. Even the Mini UCO using tealight candles is pretty handy.

- did you mention small flashlights? I know you can't count on batteries for long, but small pocket flash and couple extra sets of batteries can sure make things easier first couple days.

- What's going on top of the little stove? The cans of food?

Consider something to heat water in, small pot or big GI cup. Throw in a few single packs of ramen noodle soup mix. They don't weigh half ounce apiece. Not a heckuva lot of nutrition, but quick carbs and tasty, good spirit booster and insides warmer upper.

- Oh yeah, and maybe a couple of spoons at least?

Just off top o' my bean.

nice additions. yea.. i guess some water has to go in there.

yes. the AM/FM radio is a flashlight.. ill edit that. The camping stove comes with a a spoon/fork/knife tool and a large aluminum bowl/pan for cooking.

Edited September 12, 2009 by TNTitan

[Guest Tiny G]

If this is for two people then get a 2nd pack for her. More food and water with variety including candy, snacks, and jerky.

I would give up 50 feet or rope for more food and water.

Also, more socks (can have other uses) and a small sharpening stone for the knives. I can remember taking a few 50 mile hikes where I was dealing with a dull knife by day 3. . not fun.

Edited September 12, 2009 by Tiny G

[Oh Shoot]

...Plus I don't think you'd actually NEED the stove with the amount of trees and other things we have in TN. ...

I assume by "stove" he means "pot holder stove" that fuel goes down inside. Could use tinywood fire in it. Like:

Even better, I have a Grilliput Grill, a nice approx 8x10 free standing grill that all goes in a 12" long 3/4" diameter metal tube. Weighs little over a pound, but with wood fire/coals under it, you can cook with pan/skillet, or just grill that ole possum you shot.

- OS

[TNTitan]

I assume by "stove" he means "pot holder stove" that fuel goes down inside.

Exactly. It folds down to be really compact, weights nothing.. but the sterno has some weight.

[nightrunner]

id say you need a .357mag or larger revolver for just in case you had an encounter with a wild animal/large or dangerous game.

replace or supplement the nylon rope for some 550paracord

a large fixed balde knife, those swiss army knives are nice to carry everday but not too good once you are away from civilization.

how about some glow sticks? decent light and last 24hours

signal mirror

some duct tape rolled up on an old credit card to make it more compact

take as much water as you can, preferrably in 20oz or so bottles.

a shotgun is a possibility, if you can fit it and some shells take it. remember if its a 870 or the like, you can take the barrel off and probably fit it in a backpack concealed, and have it together in about a minute.

a .22 pistol would be VERY valuable if you were to have to hunt for food.

a high-powered takedown rifle might be valuable too, like a ar or a NEF single shot. something to possibly defend yourself with or hunt with.

roll of black electrical tape is almost as useful as duct tape

if you think there might be a civilization to come back to, might be wise to take some copies of important papers like drivers licenses, birth certificates, deeds, titles, etc. some people who left hurricane katrina and went somewhere else had trouble proving who they were in a different town in order to get work or whatever, just something to think about.

knife sharpener

gun cleaning kit

gloves

GI whistle

cb or ham radio

maybe a police scanner

[Guest H0TSH0T]

Don't forget...

the duct-tape, you never know when you need to shut someone up or cover a wound or patch a hole in tank or tarp ect.

super glue, great for cuts

tuna,(you may want to get the pouches) they are lighter and keep just as fresh. unless you are planning on using the cans to cook in down the road.

aluminum foil, if you still have a running car when the shtf, you can cook the work mans way, on the engine. and do so while your getting the f out of dodge. or wrap and toss it to the fire, and ditch the camp stove and Sterno, Sterno don't heat up crap. better off packing a BBQ grate to cook on.

8x10 tarp great for shelter, catching rain water, and still light weight, you never know when it rains and you need a dry place to sleep on.

thick socks, people forget to care for the feet, this is a must if you plan on trekking to some hide out or long distances.

charcoal filtering thermos. for about the same weight you could have something that will filter out impurity's very well if you were to come across say muddy water, they do work very well, i can turn beer back into water, don't ask, but i tried it and worked. o yea i didn't want to try it with pee...??? and while your at it take some fishing line and a hook and wrap around the thermos, and tape the hook to the bottom.

i would also recommend to swap out the chef b o d with a box or 2 of power bars more nutrition and more calories. last longer and light weight.

and a can of Crisco, this will keep bugs of you keep from getting sunburned, can use to cook, keep lips and feet from cracking, keeps water off you skin, 100 uses for the stuff, a must have.

but i would pack a good light weight rifle, better accuracy, and longer distances, 100x the rifle ammo to the pistol and keep the 2 pistols for personal defense.

[Guest SUNTZU]

So far I have a single backpack that carries (no particular order):

• Small first aid kit (antiseptic, bandages, needle, thread, aspirin, etc.) If you think there might be shooting, remember that you might get shot. Entrance and exit wounds. Get an Israeli bandage and some Kerlix. Better yet. Don't get shot. He who runs away lives to run away another day. E & E.
  
• 2 Swiss army knives Put one in your pocket.
  
• Glock 21, Taurus PT145, Ruger SP-101 (100 rds .45, 50 rds .38) Does she have a permit? How many magazines? Which is your primary? How are you carrying extra magazines? Do you have something to use as a dump pouch? Are you carrying concealed or using your backpack?
  
• Cash and some pocket change Small bills, nothing bigger than twenties.
  
• 1 roll Toilet paper & girl hygiene stuff (in ziplock baggies) Yank the tube out of the TP. Tampons and pads absorb blood. You both should have some.
  
• 2 set of clothes (me & her: 2 jeans, 2 sweatshirts, 2 T's socks & undies) Socks, underwear, beanies. I would adjust the others according to seasons.
  
• 2 small rain ponchos Are these disposable? Lowe's carries some that are a bit better. Check near the Shopvacs.
  
• 8 cans of chef boyardee, 8 cans of tunafish Dump this and get pouches of tuna/salmon. Chef Boyardee makes you feel better. Nutrition, especially carbs, there are better choices. Go to the camping section of Walmart and get some Mountain House meals. I think they're under $5 a meal. You have to add water, so plan accordingly. CLIF bars are a cheap alternative for quick carbs. 250 avg. calories per bar in each flavor. Small and don't take up much room. Mainstay rations will last a long time and have a lot of calories. Mainstay Food Rations @ Survival Unlimited.com - For your emergency preparedness and survival needs.
  
  
• Water tablets (enough for 50 liters)
  
• 1 quart thermos Are you bringing soup? I'd say dump it.
  
• 1 portable camp stove with two 8-hour sterno cans What kind of stove? You can get a small folding stove and use trioxane...or you can use rocks and trioxane to boil water. I bought an MSR Pocket Rocket Stove for my BOB. Yes, you can use a fire but you don't always have time for fires.
  
• 2 8 hour emergency candles & 2 lighters Like OS said, I'd get a UCO and a 3 pack of their candles.
  
• 1 Magnesium Flint & striker Have you ever used one of these? Get the swedish fire steel. Soak cotton balls in vaseline, squeeze out excess, fluff before sparking....FIRE! Keep some trioxane, it will start with a spark. I spent a weekend camping trying out the mag flint and striker. Pain in the ass. And that's not cold, wet, scared, and miserable in a SHTF situation. You can take a file to the magnesium bar and get a film canister and fill up prior to having to bug out. Seal the lid with duct tape. I would DEFINITELY practice this first. I'm sure you'll seek out an alternative.
  
• 1 liquid filled compass Get the pin on ball compasses, one for each of you. Know how to use a compass, both of you, in case the one who knows how is injured or unconscious.
  
• 50 Feet of Nylon Rope Dump it and get paracord. Strong enough for tying down most anything. Can be pulled apart to get at strings for various uses...fishing line.
  
• 2 pens, 1 pencil, and a notepad Rite in Rain pad? Sharpie?
  
• Portable am/fm Radio & Flashlight with hand generator (and batteries) Headlamp for each of you. Get extra batteries. How to carry extra batteries? PowerPax - Battery Clip Organizer
  
• 2 books: Pocket Outdoor Survival Guide & Edible Wild Plants & Herbs You should practice skills around the house and through camping enough to know the outdoor survival guide. Does the edible wild plants and herbs contain actual photographs? Plants change season to season and with weather conditions. I can't trust a 30 second sketch someone made. I'd suggest getting in contact with a park ranger and finding out when their next edible plants and herb nature walk is going to be held. They have them in the Smokies in the spring, I don't know about Fall.
  
• Detailed laminated map of middle TN Start walking and biking. Find fruit bearing trees, water sources, hiding places, gang territories and bad neighborhoods to shy away from, vending machines, places for scavenging materials, etc. Find some hidey holes around that you can get to in a day or two of walking and also some that are driving distance...then figure out how you would get to them and what you would have to walk through to get there.
  

You need some trioxane. Cheap and will start a fire every time.

Shelter. Get a tarp, even a cheap tarp. One for each backpack. Definitely need to have a backpack each.

Scan documents onto a weatherproof thumbdrive and encrypt it. Do this a couple of times and leave one in a safe deposit box, and one with out of town friends or relatives.

Get a spork or silverware. Cheap at Walmart in camping.

Monocular (Brunton makes a good one.) or Binoculars (I still have cheap ones but am upgrading for better light gathering. Know what's ahead and around you.)

Most headlights and decent flashlights have a strobe function that can act as a distress beacon. LED lights last a long time on low light. My headlamp is a Princeton Tec EOS II. Batteries last me days on low light. I back it up with a LED Mini Maglite and/or my Surefire. (That's between me and my significant other...I'm not carrying three flashlights).

Fox 40 Whistle - 1 each

Get a water filter. I prefer the MSR Miniworks. Get a Nalgene bottle or two each. I also carry a 3.0 liter Camelback that rides in my ALICE pack. I get thirsty.

Bandaids and headache medicine can be placed in their own ziplock bag. You don't want to keep opening your FAK everytime someone scrapes themselves or gets a headache.

Survival starts in your noggin, not in your gear.

Make a small fishing kit. There are all kinds mentioned on the Interwebz about survival altoids tins and nalgene bottles.

Your biggest "disaster" threat is going to be a house fire, then a tornado, IMO, at least in TN. An earthquake is a maybe.

Get a backpacking towel. Walmarts usually carry a version of these. If yours doesn't have one, go to a Walmart that still sells guns and you should be able to find one. Barring that, go to an outdoor adventure store.

Who lives where, what's their phone number, who's your insurance provider, your contact there, what's their number? Make a list and laminate. Both of you should have a copy.

Spare house and car keys?

BIC lighters kept in ziploc bags start fires better than firesteels and mag bars.

Review this site for some GREAT information and lists....

HURRICANE KATRINA

[TNTitan]

holy cow.. how did I forget my life long friend duct tape?!

good calls on that, the superglue, and the rest. GREAT insight there. Thanks H0TSH0T!

regarding the charcoal filter.. Ive got water pills, they are tiny. are the ineffective?

Nightrunner.. I dont know of any animal I could encounter here in mid TN that a .45 wouldnt do the trick on. I dont think I need another gun and ammo.

I like the rifle idea.. I dont have one though. I guess I need to invest in one and stop borrowing my Dad's Marlin 3030.

[nightrunner]

.45acp wont do jack on a motivated animal of medium-large size. .45colt, yeah, but not the .45acp. bears (yes we do have them) will not go down with less than a .357mag or .45colt unless you are extremely lucky. i wouldnt want to face a boar with a .45acp either.

just swap out that sp101 for a .357mag version and you are good to go.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

regarding the charcoal filter.. Ive got water pills, they are tiny. are the ineffective?

the reason i recommended the filters vs. the pills, you may not have enough water to use the pills, but you can put it in the bottle and squeeze to filter it no matter the amount, i keep 2 in my hunting bag.

pills are fine for large quantities, like 50 gallon drums or a gallon minimum, try collecting a gallons worth of morning dew off of dirty leaves, or out of a solar stilt may not happen all at once, and the pills don't remove contaminates, just kill bacteria and microbes.

[Oh Shoot]

.45acp wont do jack on a motivated animal of medium-large size. .45colt, yeah, but not the .45acp. bears (yes we do have them) will not go down with less than a .357mag or .45colt unless you are extremely lucky. i wouldnt want to face a boar with a .45acp either.

just swap out that sp101 for a .357mag version and you are good to go.

Tickles me how I always hear about protection from wild animals in TEOTWAWKI - there's only been maybe 50 folks killed by black bears in the last 100 years. Are the bears gonna be meaner when the SHTF? Has anyone ever been killed by a wild hog? Will they suddenly go into hyper attack mode?

Actually, my guess is that within a month, there wouldn't be much larger than a chipmunk left alive in the whole country!

- OS

[TNTitan]

just swap out that sp101 for a .357mag version and you are good to go.

the sp101 is in .357. I dont think I have ever seen a bear around here... I cant imagine a couple of Golden Saber .45's not doing the job, but maybe im wrong.

[TNTitan]

the reason i recommended the filters vs. the pills, you may not have enough water to use the pills, but you can put it in the bottle and squeeze to filter it no matter the amount, i keep 2 in my hunting bag.

pills are fine for large quantities, like 50 gallon drums or a gallon minimum, try collecting a gallons worth of morning dew off of dirty leaves, or out of a solar stilt may not happen all at once, and the pills don't remove contaminates, just kill bacteria and microbes.

thanks for the clarification. those are good points.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

but don't toss the pills, they may still come in handy, esp if your in a group of people trying to survive and have more people contributing to the water pool. or for use after a good rain when lots of water is abundant. (i have pill in my kit also for the same reason.)

[TNTitan]

So far I have a single backpack that carries (no particular order):

• Small first aid kit (antiseptic, bandages, needle, thread, aspirin, etc.) If you think there might be shooting, remember that you might get shot. Entrance and exit wounds. Get an Israeli bandage and some Kerlix. Better yet. Don't get shot. He who runs away lives to run away another day. E & E. Ill try not to get shot!
  
  
• 2 Swiss army knives Put one in your pocket. Good idea
  
  
• Glock 21, Taurus PT145, Ruger SP-101 (100 rds .45, 50 rds .38) Does she have a permit? In the works. HCP Class taken. How many magazines? 4 Which is your primary?G21 How are you carrying extra magazines?Smart Carry Do you have something to use as a dump pouch?no..Are you carrying concealed or using your backpack?Smart Carry
  
• Cash and some pocket change Small bills, nothing bigger than twenties.agreed
  
• 1 roll Toilet paper & girl hygiene stuff (in ziplock baggies) Yank the tube out of the TP. Tampons and pads absorb blood. You both should have some.Ive been told I need a tampon before... good idea though.
  
  
• 2 set of clothes (me & her: 2 jeans, 2 sweatshirts, 2 T's socks & undies) Socks, underwear, beanies. I would adjust the others according to seasons.
  
  
• 2 small rain ponchos Are these disposable? Lowe's carries some that are a bit better. Check near the Shopvacs. no. resuable
  
  
• 8 cans of chef boyardee, 8 cans of tunafish Dump this and get pouches of tuna/salmon. Chef Boyardee makes you feel better. Nutrition, especially carbs, there are better choices. Go to the camping section of Walmart and get some Mountain House meals. I think they're under $5 a meal. You have to add water, so plan accordingly. CLIF bars are a cheap alternative for quick carbs. 250 avg. calories per bar in each flavor. Small and don't take up much room. Mainstay rations will last a long time and have a lot of calories. Mainstay Food Rations @ Survival Unlimited.com - For your emergency preparedness and survival needs. Great advice.
  
  
• Water tablets (enough for 50 liters)
  
• 1 quart thermos Are you bringing soup? I'd say dump it. Its empty.. for captured water.
  
• 1 portable camp stove with two 8-hour sterno cans What kind of stove? You can get a small folding stove and use trioxane...or you can use rocks and trioxane to boil water. I bought an MSR Pocket Rocket Stove for my BOB. Yes, you can use a fire but you don't always have time for fires. Small folding w/ sterno.
  
  
• 2 8 hour emergency candles & 2 lighters Like OS said, I'd get a UCO and a 3 pack of their candles. good idea
  
• 1 Magnesium Flint & striker Have you ever used one of these? yup. its work. Get the swedish fire steel. Soak cotton balls in vaseline, squeeze out excess, fluff before sparking....FIRE! Keep some trioxane, it will start with a spark. I spent a weekend camping trying out the mag flint and striker. Pain in the ass. And that's not cold, wet, scared, and miserable in a SHTF situation. You can take a file to the magnesium bar and get a film canister and fill up prior to having to bug out. Seal the lid with duct tape. I would DEFINITELY practice this first. I'm sure you'll seek out an alternative. Will do.
  
  
• 1 liquid filled compass Get the pin on ball compasses, one for each of you. Know how to use a compass, both of you, in case the one who knows how is injured or unconscious. Didnt think of that.
  
  
• 50 Feet of Nylon Rope Dump it and get paracord. Strong enough for tying down most anything. Can be pulled apart to get at strings for various uses...fishing line. hmmm... paracord..
  
  
• 2 pens, 1 pencil, and a notepad Rite in Rain pad? Sharpie? Sharpie FTW
  
  
• Portable am/fm Radio & Flashlight with hand generator (and batteries) Headlamp for each of you. Get extra batteries. How to carry extra batteries? PowerPax - Battery Clip Organizer
  
• 2 books: Pocket Outdoor Survival Guide & Edible Wild Plants & Herbs You should practice skills around the house and through camping enough to know the outdoor survival guide. Does the edible wild plants and herbs contain actual photographs? Definitely. Plants change season to season and with weather conditions. I can't trust a 30 second sketch someone made. I'd suggest getting in contact with a park ranger and finding out when their next edible plants and herb nature walk is going to be held. They have them in the Smokies in the spring, I don't know about Fall. Not a bad thought.
  
  
• Detailed laminated map of middle TN Start walking and biking. Find fruit bearing trees, water sources, hiding places, gang territories and bad neighborhoods to shy away from, vending machines, places for scavenging materials, etc. Find some hidey holes around that you can get to in a day or two of walking and also some that are driving distance...then figure out how you would get to them and what you would have to walk through to get there. Smart idea
  
  

You need some trioxane. Cheap and will start a fire every time.

Shelter. Get a tarp, even a cheap tarp. One for each backpack. Definitely need to have a backpack each.

Scan documents onto a weatherproof thumbdrive and encrypt it. Do this a couple of times and leave one in a safe deposit box, and one with out of town friends or relatives.

Get a spork or silverware. Cheap at Walmart in camping.

Monocular (Brunton makes a good one.) or Binoculars (I still have cheap ones but am upgrading for better light gathering. Know what's ahead and around you.)

Most headlights and decent flashlights have a strobe function that can act as a distress beacon. LED lights last a long time on low light. My headlamp is a Princeton Tec EOS II. Batteries last me days on low light. I back it up with a LED Mini Maglite and/or my Surefire. (That's between me and my significant other...I'm not carrying three flashlights).

Fox 40 Whistle - 1 each

Get a water filter. I prefer the MSR Miniworks. Get a Nalgene bottle or two each. I also carry a 3.0 liter Camelback that rides in my ALICE pack. I get thirsty.

Bandaids and headache medicine can be placed in their own ziplock bag. You don't want to keep opening your FAK everytime someone scrapes themselves or gets a headache.

Survival starts in your noggin, not in your gear.

Make a small fishing kit. There are all kinds mentioned on the Interwebz about survival altoids tins and nalgene bottles.

Your biggest "disaster" threat is going to be a house fire, then a tornado, IMO, at least in TN. An earthquake is a maybe.

Get a backpacking towel. Walmarts usually carry a version of these. If yours doesn't have one, go to a Walmart that still sells guns and you should be able to find one. Barring that, go to an outdoor adventure store.

Who lives where, what's their phone number, who's your insurance provider, your contact there, what's their number? Make a list and laminate. Both of you should have a copy.

Spare house and car keys?

BIC lighters kept in ziploc bags start fires better than firesteels and mag bars.

Review this site for some GREAT information and lists....

HURRICANE KATRINA

Awesome Response SUNTZU.. I appreciate the effort you took to write it!

[nightrunner]

the sp101 is in .357. I dont think I have ever seen a bear around here... I cant imagine a couple of Golden Saber .45's not doing the job, but maybe im wrong.

then put some 357s in there for it.

[Moped]

Actually, my guess is that within a month, there wouldn't be much larger than a chipmunk left alive in the whole country!

- OS

I have to agree with this. If it was TEOTWAWKI, you'll see people start eating each other in a month.

I'd like to have a rifle or shotgun in my arsenal as well for my whole party.

[TNTitan]

then put some 357s in there for it.

not to go off on a rabbit trail, but the .45ACP 185gr Golden Sabers have a 96% stopping power with 12.4" penetration.. the best .357 JHP also has a 96% stopping power ratio with 12.3" penetration. Am I missing something here? What is the .357 going to give me over my .45?

[nightrunner]

you should be fine with .45acp then, sir.

[TNTitan]

I have to agree with this. If it was TEOTWAWKI, you'll see people start eating each other in a month.

I'd like to have a rifle or shotgun in my arsenal as well for my whole party.

man.. i really need an AR or something similar.. money money money.

[Guest 70below]

not to go off on a rabbit trail, but the .45ACP 185gr Golden Sabers have a 96% stopping power with 12.4" penetration.. the best .357 JHP also has a 96% stopping power ratio with 12.3" penetration. Am I missing something here? What is the .357 going to give me over my .45?

I'd stay away from JHP if you're suggesting you may have to shoot a bear or hog. You need something that will penetrate through heavy bone. JHP are great for defending against two legged creatures, but I'd much rather have a flat or round nose soft point VS a four legged foe. I would also go with a heavy load capable of breaking through that heavy skin/fur and bone more readily.

a 158gr jacketed soft point .357 mag at 1250fps would be much more comforting to me and offer more consistent penetration than a 185gr HP at 1000fps. If I were to face a bear or hog with a .45, I would prefer to face it with 230gr +P FMJ's to ensure the best penetration and sacrifice expansion for the 13rd capacity.

[Guest FiddleDog]

I'd think a scout set up on an inexpensive bolt action should suffice...maybe a Marlin XS-7?