Applying "truth in advertising" to obamacare

[Mark@Sea]

Ralph at his finest....

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

The article you posted from pleasecutthecrap.com IS crap...I flush turds down the toilet. If you don't do A then you don't care about B. Its a lame attempt at pressuring people to support your God King. Why is it patriotic to take more money from my pocket to pay for your family's healthcare? Why don't YOU pay for it? Instead of taking trips to Denmark and spending time looking up propaganda and posting it on this forum where the general consensus is **** that noise, you could be flipping burgers, mowing some lawns, or doing some spins around a brass pole at a gay bar. Go earn your money and pay for that healthcare yourself. No need for you to try to get letters of marque against my paycheck.

You're no patriot, you're a whiner who is determined to get a legal way into EVERY American's pockets.

Do I need to send you money for car insurance because you got too many tickets and accidents and its too expensive? Did you wrap your mouth around to many Sugardaddies and your teeth fall out and now I need to buy you some new ones because you can't afford it?

Why do you have internet service? You could put that money towards prescriptions. Don't you care about your family? But why should YOU make sacrifices for YOUR family when you can get someone else to do it for you.

You could just stick a gun to my ribs and take my money, or support getting a federal law passed that sticks a gun to my ribs and takes my money. When I'm facing a gun, what's the difference? Riddle me that, Batman.

In typical wingnut fashion, you set up a straw man, me in this case, to whom you attach all your hatred, fears, prejudices and misconceptions. You're maybe not really a cruel person, so in order to embrace a cruel politics you have to create an imaginary evil which is easy to hate. (the lazy, shiftless, irresponsible, immoral masses....a few years ago you'd have used the 'N' word) The next step is to attach those evil attributes to everyone who disagrees with you. Bingo...you can be an insensitive jerk with no guilt. The only threat to your little mind-game is that you might somehow, someday, see that the end result of you way of non-thinking is a great deal of pain and suffering inflicted on the mostly innocent. (Karmic justice dictates that one of your loved ones will be one of those victims one day.)

The other threat posed by the truth is that you will be revealed as a foolish ass. Here....I'll give you some based on your above post--

YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR THE UNINSURED AND THE UNDERUNSIRED AND YOU"RE PAYING A LOT MORE THAN YOU WOULD BE UNDER A UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE PLAN. Where do you think the money for the healthcare the uninsured get in emergency rooms, etc comes from??? IT COMES FROM YOU AND ME (yes I have insurance) in the form of higher insurance premiums and higher healthcare costs!!!! CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS??? I believe you can as an obviously intelligent man, but your insurmountable hubris and your thorough brain-washing prohibit you from admitting it, even to yourself. So you may not feel like a jackass for your opinions, but to most sentient beings your folly is obvious.

Your opening statement gave away what's really behind the wingnut opposition to healthcare reform--"it's a lame attempt at pressuring people to support your God King." You'd rather let millions suffer unjustly than see the President succeed at the major goal of his presidency. It's not about healthcare at all to you is it?

You're so busted!

[Mark@Sea]

Do we need another dancing grenade? Have accusations of racism been flung, like monkey poo in a really strange bar fight? Has someone once again gone on a tangent where no man has gone before?

Tune in next week, same batty time, same batty channel!

The sad thing is that I don't even need to read his posts anymore.

[Guest SUNTZU]

In typical wingnut fashion, you set up a straw man, me in this case, to whom you attach all your hatred, fears, prejudices and misconceptions. You're maybe not really a cruel person, so in order to embrace a cruel politics you have to create an imaginary evil which is easy to hate. (the lazy, shiftless, irresponsible, immoral masses....a few years ago you'd have used the 'N' word) The next step is to attach those evil attributes to everyone who disagrees with you. Bingo...you can be an insensitive jerk with no guilt. The only threat to your little mind-game is that you might somehow, someday, see that the end result of you way of non-thinking is a great deal of pain and suffering inflicted on the mostly innocent. (Karmic justice dictates that one of your loved ones will be one of those victims one day.)

The other threat posed by the truth is that you will be revealed as a foolish ass. Here....I'll give you some based on your above post--

YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR THE UNINSURED AND THE UNDERUNSIRED AND YOU"RE PAYING A LOT MORE THAN YOU WOULD BE UNDER A UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE PLAN. Where do you think the money for the healthcare the uninsured get in emergency rooms, etc comes from??? IT COMES FROM YOU AND ME (yes I have insurance) in the form of higher insurance premiums and higher healthcare costs!!!! CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS??? I believe you can as an obviously intelligent man, but your insurmountable hubris and your thorough brain-washing prohibit you from admitting it, even to yourself. So you may not feel like a jackass for your opinions, but to most sentient beings your folly is obvious.

Your opening statement gave away what's really behind the wingnut opposition to healthcare reform--"it's a lame attempt at pressuring people to support your God King." You'd rather let millions suffer unjustly than see the President succeed at the major goal of his presidency. It's not about healthcare at all to you is it?

You're so busted!

[USMCJG]

Would you folks please quit quoting this person? I have him on my ignore list so that I don't have to read his drivel. But when you quote him I can see it and it makes my head hurt. I am idiocy intolerant, have some compassion.

[tntnixon]

. Can't face the truth of the message, attack the messenger.

OK, Ralph. I'm your huckleberry. If you read my earlier post, I think I clearly stated that the "facts" in your post were indeed lies. They have no factual basis at all. And people who say things that are lies are-I'll let you fill in the blank.

There are many people on here who can out shoot me and know more about guns than I'll ever know. But if you start talking about medical issues and policy, your in my wheelhouse!!!

I've spent my entire career in the medical field, at many different levels. And I'll tell you one thing I have spent a hell of a lot more time thinking about, talking about, reading about, and meeting about healthcare with some of the brightest minds in our country than you will in your entire life. I've seen more birth and death than you'll ever dream of and I take life and health seriously. It's not just another fun political topic or campaign issue. What I do makes a difference between someone living and someone dying and how they'll live in the future and on what terms.

What you and many others fail to understand is that "Nationalized Healthcare" is not the same care only now it's free. It's less health care and at a greater cost. If you'll check my earlier posts you'll see one called basic math. I don't have the time or the patience to re-post it, but it's basic breakdown of the numbers involved. It's mindboggling.

But your one of those folks who won't be persuaded by facts. Lies are the only material you seem to be comfortable with.

Edited September 4, 2009 by tntnixon

[Mark@Sea]

This game is suitable for ages four and up

Edited September 4, 2009 by Mark@Sea

[Steelharp]

Ralph is a bass player. Back in the day... (on the right)

[Guest 3pugguy]

There are none so blind as those who will not see. Ralph doesn't respond to reason, fact, or ridicule. He is so blinded by ideology that "anything" the left proposes is dandy, and any rebuttal is not just wrong, but proof of the opponents lack of morals, intelligence, and table manners.

I really don't know of a cure for his problem.

Could be Ralph is unable to respond and might be another leftwing, agenda driven, board clogging... troll. Thus, he most likely the disease I mention in another post that most assuredly afflicts many of those poor souls (the placement of the follower's head in his/herbeloved leader's rear facing orifice). Pity, really...the lad or lassie needs help...

[Guest 3pugguy]

OK, Ralph. I'm your huckleberry. If you read my earlier post, I think I clearly stated that the "facts" in your post were indeed lies. They have no factual basis at all. And people who say things that are lies are-I'll let you fill in the blank.

There are many people on here who can out shoot me and know more about guns than I'll ever know. But if you start talking about medical issues and policy, your in my wheelhouse!!!

I've spent my entire career in the medical field, at many different levels. And I'll tell you one thing I have spent a hell of a lot more time thinking about, talking about, reading about, and meeting about healthcare with some of the brightest minds in our country than you will in your entire life. I've seen more birth and death than you'll ever dream of and I take life and health seriously. It's not just another fun political topic or campaign issue. What I do makes a difference between someone living and someone dying and how they'll live in the future and on what terms.

What you and many others fail to understand is that "Nationalized Healthcare" is not the same care only now it's free. It's less health care and at a greater cost. If you'll check my earlier posts you'll see one called basic math. I don't have the time or the patience to re-post it, but it's basic breakdown of the numbers involved. It's mindboggling.

But your one of those folks who won't be persuaded by facts. Lies are the only material you seem to be comfortable with.

Here, here and +1 on that post, tntnixon

[Guest 3pugguy]

Sorry, I was so PO'd by what Ralph said (knowing they were outright lies) I immediately started writing before seeing any replies. Sorry for restating the previously stated and also being so stupid as to believing that this was Ralph's own essay on healthcare. I should have known it was plagiarized. I would almost think that that post would be grounds for being banned but maybe I'm wrong.

Your reply was good, as it was from a professional who could, from personal knowledge, challenge a cut and paste load of you know what - as Ralph's most recent post and others like it have been so accurately described by other posters.

It is very disingenous, these tactics of outright lies and half truths, but it plays to and resonates with their target audience.

Anyway, thanks for the info you put in your post. And fwiw, I agree 100% on the choice issue you mention. It is one thing is someone truly needs help and I would venture most anyone posting here would reach in their pocket to help that person or their family - even if they did not have much themselves.

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

OK, Ralph. I'm your huckleberry. If you read my earlier post, I think I clearly stated that the "facts" in your post were indeed lies. They have no factual basis at all. And people who say things that are lies are-I'll let you fill in the blank.

There are many people on here who can out shoot me and know more about guns than I'll ever know. But if you start talking about medical issues and policy, your in my wheelhouse!!!

I've spent my entire career in the medical field, at many different levels. And I'll tell you one thing I have spent a hell of a lot more time thinking about, talking about, reading about, and meeting about healthcare with some of the brightest minds in our country than you will in your entire life. I've seen more birth and death than you'll ever dream of and I take life and health seriously. It's not just another fun political topic or campaign issue. What I do makes a difference between someone living and someone dying and how they'll live in the future and on what terms.

What you and many others fail to understand is that "Nationalized Healthcare" is not the same care only now it's free. It's less health care and at a greater cost. If you'll check my earlier posts you'll see one called basic math. I don't have the time or the patience to re-post it, but it's basic breakdown of the numbers involved. It's mindboggling.

But your one of those folks who won't be persuaded by facts. Lies are the only material you seem to be comfortable with.

More propaganda from the right. You no doubt profit personally from the healthcare status-quo. It's all about money and /or Obamaphobia to the anti's. Hope you sleep well in your selfishness and greed. Since you're a self-proclaimed expert on healthcare perhaps you'd like to enlighten the rest of the brainwashed tools of the insurance industry as to where the United States ranks compared to the rest of the industrialized world in infant mortality, and amount per capita spent on healthcare? Also what the future holds in terms of healthcare and insurance costs, as well as the number of uninsured, if we continue to do nothing? Tell us why if we're the greatest nation on earth we can't manage to do what so many others have done....and don't give me crap about how terrible things are elsewhere--I've been there. There's no excuse for our being a third-world country where healthcare is concerned.

It violates the constitution, the bible, and common decency.

The evening news carried coverage of a crippled woman in a wheelchair being shouted down by a wingnut at a townhall meeting on healthcare today.... make you proud?

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

Ralph is a bass player. Back in the day... (on the right)

You were singing your ass off that night Steel!

Ah, the good ole days...but I was a Republican then:)

[Guest Hyaloid]

SNIP

There's no excuse for our being a third-world country where healthcare is concerned.

It violates the constitution, the bible, and common decency.

The evening news carried coverage of a crippled woman in a wheelchair being shouted down by a wingnut at a townhall meeting on healthcare today.... make you proud?

Please elaborate on the underlined. My research indicates the exact opposite.

[Guest Hyaloid]

As a side note, please keep the rhetoric to a minimum.

Remember, attack the issues and the arguments, not each other. Keep it clean, keep it civil.

Don't just cut and paste, try to form original thoughts.

If you do cite a statistic or an event or anything else of importance, PLEASE POST YOUR SOURCE WITH A LINK.

Thank you, carry on! Remember, it's not a debate if we all just sit around agreeing with one another. Leave room for civil disagreement and congenial discourse. Just because you're in the majority, doesn't mean you are right. Prove it with your facts.

[Guest 3pugguy]

More propaganda from the right. You no doubt profit personally from the healthcare status-quo. It's all about money and /or Obamaphobia to the anti's. Hope you sleep well in your selfishness and greed. Since you're a self-proclaimed expert on healthcare perhaps you'd like to enlighten the rest of the brainwashed tools of the insurance industry as to where the United States ranks compared to the rest of the industrialized world in infant mortality, and amount per capita spent on healthcare? Also what the future holds in terms of healthcare and insurance costs, as well as the number of uninsured, if we continue to do nothing? Tell us why if we're the greatest nation on earth we can't manage to do what so many others have done....and don't give me crap about how terrible things are elsewhere--I've been there. There's no excuse for our being a third-world country where healthcare is concerned.

It violates the constitution, the bible, and common decency.

The evening news carried coverage of a crippled woman in a wheelchair being shouted down by a wingnut at a townhall meeting on healthcare today.... make you proud?

To paraphrase your reply Ralph:

I have no facts to argue against a health care provider, so I will attack you with more name calling and play the you must be a right-wing propaganda spreader. The info I post is intended to inflame and incite people to action but is not based in facts (facts being stupid things after all).

I am Ralph the Righteous and none of you care about anyone else and I am here to tell you what is wrong with you.

Straight out of the playbook Ralph - very well done. Do you get special seats at the next Town Hall with the President is you post "x" number of times?

Edited September 5, 2009 by 3pugguy

[Guest 3pugguy]

Oversight due to extreme fatigue, not plagiarism.

The article's from "Pleasecutthecrap.com."

Apologies....just got off the plane from Denmark (where they're very happy with their Socialist healthcare thank you)

You can know un-knot your panties and try to reply to the content of the

article....tell me why it's patriotic to not give a damn about our fellow citizens.

Then why don't you go back to Denmark and live there, if you are so happy with socialized medicine?

But that aside, tntnixon dissected your false post quite well already. Just more BS being spread; find another playground Ralph - you are tiresome. I get enough BS watching the news and the always talking but doing nothing politicians of the democratic (but we know best) party.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

lets see how can i put this out there, school tuition, it is not that it cost any more or less money to send your kids to school, but the cost rises equally to the amount of money subsidized or infused by the fed gov. thus the university raises the tuition cost to raise the the gov assistance moneys, in a vicious circle up and up it goes. If the university were to lower the cost, the government would lower the $$$$ in to the pot thus costing the university's millions in lost revenues.this is fact, go research it for your self. The same system is in place for the medical side of this, now when it comes to health care this is not an area for government to involve themselves they need to figure out a way to compel the lazy 15% to go to work, they need to figure out a way to spend their own money first if they want to legislate morality. and we the people need to figure out, that if these people in office cant do anything but find more and more ways to screw you out of your hard earned money than we need to close those offices, fire those people, and keep our money and spend it on what we decide is in our best interest and if we squander it well that is our choice, but at least we are not paying into a system that is designed to rob Peter to pay Paul and screw you.

Edited September 5, 2009 by H0TSH0T
add

[leroy]

There are none so blind as those who will not see. Ralph doesn't respond to reason, fact, or ridicule. He is so blinded by ideology that "anything" the left proposes is dandy, and any rebuttal is not just wrong, but proof of the opponents lack of morals, intelligence, and table manners.

I really don't know of a cure for his problem.

This is a great truth. Check out this thread-- same discussion:

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/national-politics-legislation/23831-national-healthcare-moves-forward-three-cheers-more-govt-continue.html

It amounts to endless arguing (which i kinda really like -- it's a character flaw, i think). Ralph may be a secret operative drawing out all our "right wing anti healthcare commentors" for the great Noboma data harvest and intimidation campaign. By the way; I really like this little image -- it describes the situation exactly:

Thank you SUNTZU for explaining this problem so greatly. I admire genius.

Keep up the good work!

Kind regards (with loads of "Hope for change" for Ralph).

LEROY

.....psst (As Foghorn would say...) "RALPH... BOY, I SAY BOY---THERE AINT NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO HEALTHCARE. THERE IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PRIVATE PROPERTY."

...Bet ya didnt know that ole Foghorn was a capitalist!!!

Edited September 5, 2009 by leroy
added childish embellishments!!

[Mark@Sea]

I have yet to meet a well-run government program. Healthcare reform in this country isn't needed - we have the best healthcare in the world. Misleading statistics on, for example, infant mortality, seem to show the US in a less favorable position - but when you discover that many countries don't count premature births unless they reach a certain weight, while the US does... Well, kind of puts a different slant on things, doesn't it?

Insurance reform - certainly needed, primarily because of government intervention in the first place. Why not tell the government to butt out, and let a free market provide incentives for insurance companies to meet their customers' needs?

Single-payer (IE government provided and controlled) healthcare leads to poor standards of care, insufficient resources to meet demands, and inevitably, rationing. No, thank you!

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

[quote name=Hyaloid;356079Originally Posted by Ralph G. Briscoe

SNIP

There's no excuse for our being a third-world country where healthcare is concerned.

It violates the constitution' date=' the bible, and common decency.

The evening news carried coverage of a crippled woman in a wheelchair being shouted down by a wingnut at a townhall meeting on healthcare today.... make you proud?]Please elaborate on the underlined. My research indicates the exact opposite.

"...to promote the general welfare"

I know you'll now try to tell me why that doesn't mean what it says, but, according to which poll you choose to believe, 55 to 80 percent of the public think it means improved access to affordable healthcare.

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

To paraphrase your reply Ralph:

I have no facts to argue against a health care provider, so I will attack you with more name calling and play the you must be a right-wing propaganda spreader. The info I post is intended to inflame and incite people to action but is not based in facts (facts being stupid things after all).

I am Ralph the Righteous and none of you care about anyone else and I am here to tell you what is wrong with you.

Straight out of the playbook Ralph - very well done. Do you get special seats at the next Town Hall with the President is you post "x" number of times?

Pug, If you'll take the time to read my post you'll note that I was asking a self-proclaimed expert to provide some facts. Apparently, since those facts would be damaging to his argument he has chosen not to do so.

It would also enhance his credibility if he would let us know specifically what his "expertise" and his credentials consist of. You could claim to be the King of Prussia but I wouldn't choose to believe you without some proof.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

"...to promote the general welfare"

I know you'll now try to tell me why that doesn't mean what it says, but, according to which poll you choose to believe, 55 to 80 percent of the public think it means improved access to affordable healthcare.

just because someone thinks they know, doesn't mean that they do know.

that is the definition of a fool as found in the bible (Pre King James)"he who knows not and think he knows is a fool shun him."

as far as affordability of health care, the people that treat you don't even know the cost, it is an artificial number, it is not like your picking your treatment from a menu, like you do food at a restaurant , and regardless if you have the money or not you still get treatment.

but lets pick apart your statement on the merits.

"55-80% thinks it means improved access to affordable health care"

1. 55-80% of people, first off not that many people voted for him in the first place,

i would say that may be the amount of liberals that may believe that.

2. people you think the government are we the people, or we the people

are the government?

3 . think we know most people don't do this and when they do, if the

conclusion in not constructed in facts, not opinions they may lead you

to a surprisingly wrong outcome.

4. improved access. are they gonna make a door 1000 of a inch bigger, or

send a limo to pick me up, or make sure when i am billed for a hours time

of a doctor, if I actually get a hours time, and not seen by some CNA and

billed for a doctor.

5. affordable, do you know what this means? priced with in someones

means and ability to pay. how can someone that doesn't know me

and has to ask by force how much pay i recived, (taxes) gonna know

what i can afford, when they cant even balance a budget, something

every family must do in America to survive. i don't make any more money

just because i say i need it, and decided it so, take a vote on it, and

neither should they.

6. healthcare, what is this? n. The prevention, treatment, and management of illness and the

preservation of mental and physical well-being through the services

offered by the medical and allied health professions.health care - definition of health care in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

i care about treatment, i am responsible for prevention through my choices, same for my well being, and i don't care for the management of illness, as-long as the treatment is effective,(that is what i assume i am paying a doctor for, his/her knowledge and skills to treat me.)

6a. i didn't see govenment in the definition? did you?

Edited September 5, 2009 by H0TSH0T

[leroy]

"...to promote the general welfare"

I know you'll now try to tell me why that doesn't mean what it says, but, according to which poll you choose to believe, 55 to 80 percent of the public think it means improved access to affordable healthcare.

Ralph... Boy, i say boy ----- there aint no mandate for gubment to interfere into the affairs of the private sector and demand that everybody have everything that somebody else has without paying for it. The great Noboma is just paying off his constitutiency. Nothin but machine politics and carpetbagging at its worst.

Thanks again SUNTZU for the inspiration.

LEROY

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

I have yet to meet a well-run government program. Healthcare reform in this country isn't needed - we have the best healthcare in the world. Misleading statistics on, for example, infant mortality, seem to show the US in a less favorable position - but when you discover that many countries don't count premature births unless they reach a certain weight, while the US does... Well, kind of puts a different slant on things, doesn't it?

Insurance reform - certainly needed, primarily because of government intervention in the first place. Why not tell the government to butt out, and let a free market provide incentives for insurance companies to meet their customers' needs?

Single-payer (IE government provided and controlled) healthcare leads to poor standards of care, insufficient resources to meet demands, and inevitably, rationing. No, thank you!

So, the government can't do anything right. Okay,let's privatize the military!!! Actually we have partially by resorting to the use of mercenaries (I refuse to call them "private contractors".....private contractors remodel bathrooms....mercenaries fight wars). That's a good example of the private versus government issue--We pay the private guys 10 times as much a soldier makes, and haven't they done us proud! Not just by using Iraqi civilians for target practice...Check out the homoerotic frat boy parties the embassy guards in Afghanistan have been throwing.

So, to summarize--what you call "socialism" versus capitalism--

Government run (socialism)=soldiers doing their jobs bravely, responsibly, and at a bargain price.

Private run (capitalism)=naked latent homos drinking vodka from each other's asses, and charging us exhorbitantly for it.

We have the best healthcare in the world....but only for those who have access to it. It should be the best...it's the most expensive but still Millions don't have access at all, millions more don't have adequate coverage, and most of us are vulnerable to loss of coverage if we get sick. In most of the medical related bankruptcies these days the victims have, or had, insurance.

As for government intervention being the cause of our healthcare problems. From my personal experience those problems began during the Reagan era of de-regulation. That's when, after being insured cheaply for 20 years, my premiums suddenly began going up 20 to 50 percent a year until I was paying more monthly than my yearly premiums were originally....and I have had no major health problems.

The only hope for preserving your precious private only healthcare while fixing the problems of inaccessability is wise government regulation.

The Swiss have managed to do that successfully. They don't have single-payer or a public option yet their system works....but only because they regulate the hell out of insurers and, I believe, require all to be insured. I predict that, when the dust has settled, we'll end up with something like that. The one thing both sides seem to agree on is that the status-quo is unsustainable--one-sixth of our GDP and rising.