Gun Buying

[Guest jsjracing]

I have a question and could not figure out where to post so here it is.

Is it legal for me to buy a gun from someone out of state? Can I meet someone for say Alabama in Chattanooga and buy a gun legally?

I have been told it is illegal and now someone is telling me it is illegal. Just wanting to know the law.

Thanks.

[Guest eyebedam]

If it is a handgun the answer is no. It will need to go through a ffl. I'm unsure on a long gun but I think it is legal.

[Currently]

I bought one of my pistols from NC, the seller (non-FFL holder) packed it unloaded in a USPS overnight package and shipped it to a TN FFL holder. I went to the FFL holder, gave him 25 bucks and he ran me through the system and verified that I was qualified to purchase said firearm. I then filled out the paperwork and left said premises with over $400 of ammo and accessories because he was so reasonable with his rates.

Edited: I made my point and subsequent posts support it with legal documentation.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Currently

[Guest Patty]

The answer could be yes, if you reside in the state you are obtaining the handgun from. If the person is out of that state and could bring it to you then yes, or if you go to that state then yes, as long as it is not from a fll dealer.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

private party to private party is ok, just make sure you get a dated sales slip and a drivers license number if anything ever was to happen, like the person my have sold you a stolen gun or one used in a crime.

if your buying from a shop that has a ffl they will have to ship to your local ffl and do all the paper work.

if you are selling the gun, make sure you also get a drivers license number of the person you sold to, just in-case they use your old firearm in a crime so you can get the LEO'S in the right direction if they were to knock on your door down the road. also your required to ask if they are ok to have a gun, no background check is required, but you do have to ask.

now there is another option and that is to meet at a gun shop and do the background check on the gun and you and wait for what ever holding time it takes for the shop to do so, some shops will do this some will not, there is no wait time for a firearm in tn, but may vary state to state how ever the time it takes to clear a gun will vary.

i have bought and traded many firearms person to person to friends and family in this state and out of this state, and have done transfers, and registrations of fire arms each way listed above.

Edited August 30, 2009 by H0TSH0T

[Daniel]

The answer could be yes, if you reside in the state you are obtaining the handgun from. If the person is out of that state and could bring it to you then yes, or if you go to that state then yes, as long as it is not from a fll dealer.

private party to private party is ok, just make sure you get a dated sales slip and a drivers license number if anything ever was to happen, like the person my have sold you a stolen gun or one used in a crime.if your buying from a shop that has a ffl they will have to ship to your local ffl and do all the paper work.

if you are selling the gun, make sure you also get a drivers license number of the person you sold to, just in-case they use your old firearm in a crime so you can get the LEO'S in the right direction if they were to knock on your door down the road. also your required to ask if they are ok to have a gun, no background check is required, but you do have to ask.

now there is another option and that is to meet at a gun shop and do the background check on the gun and you and wait for what ever holding time it takes for the shop to do so, some shops will do this some will not, there is no wait time for a firearm in tn, but may vary state to state how ever the time it takes to clear a gun will vary.

I believe the bolded text in both statements to be incorrect.

[TNFlyer]

Also, if you are legitimately looking to move to the state in question no FFL is required. You do not have to move, but you must be actively looking at the time of purchase. I can't quote the law on this, but I am 99% sure this is the case.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

you are not required to get any license numbers,THAT IS A CYA THING, I am 99.9 percent i am correct, also if you go out of state make sure you transport the weapon properly,here is a link, to the laws Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

Edited August 30, 2009 by H0TSH0T

[Guest Patty]

I believe the bolded text in both statements to be incorrect.

I think I am correct.

[TNRobocop]

Good god, the inaccuracies in this thread is legendary.

Guns cannot cross state lines for sale except to or through a FFL. No ID swapping is required by law, either federal or TN state. Other states might be different.

You are violating federal law if you do.

You may only purchase face to face between residents of the same state.

You want a gun from a resident of another state, it has to be either shipped to a FFL in your own state, or the seller beings it with them to a FFL in the buyers state, give it to the FFL who then logs it in. The FFL dealer then transfers it to the buyer on a 4473, does the background check, and then transfers it to the buyer after successful completion of the background check.

This information is on the ATF website under the FAQ section. Check that area first before advocating people to violate federal law.

[strickj]

private party to private party is ok, just make sure you get a dated sales slip and a drivers license number if anything ever was to happen, like the person my have sold you a stolen gun or one used in a crime.

if your buying from a shop that has a ffl they will have to ship to your local ffl and do all the paper work.

if you are selling the gun, make sure you also get a drivers license number of the person you sold to, just in-case they use your old firearm in a crime so you can get the LEO'S in the right direction if they were to knock on your door down the road. also your required to ask if they are ok to have a gun, no background check is required, but you do have to ask.

now there is another option and that is to meet at a gun shop and do the background check on the gun and you and wait for what ever holding time it takes for the shop to do so, some shops will do this some will not, there is no wait time for a firearm in tn, but may vary state to state how ever the time it takes to clear a gun will vary.

i have bought and traded many firearms person to person to friends and family in this state and out of this state, and have done transfers, and registrations of fire arms each way listed above.

you are not required to get any license numbers,THAT IS A CYA THING, I am 99.9 percent i am correct, also if you go out of state make sure you transport the weapon properly,here is a link, to the laws Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

You do know there is no firearm registration in TN,right?

[Guest bkelm18]

Here's the law:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922((3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Short of the long: Any transfers between individuals who reside in different states must go through a FFL.

Edited August 30, 2009 by bkelm18

[Guest bkelm18]

i have bought and traded many firearms person to person to friends and family in this state and out of this state, and have done transfers, and registrations of fire arms each way listed above.

Just so you know, that is illegal if these transfers of ownership were not done through a FFL.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

this is a fed law, not a state law!

27 Sec. 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or

deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows

or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person

is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of

business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That

the provisions of this section:

(a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of

a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any

acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is

permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of

his residence; and

( shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person

for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

Edited August 30, 2009 by H0TSH0T

[Guest bkelm18]

this is a fed law, not a state law!

27 Sec. 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or

deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows

or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person

is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of

business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That

the provisions of this section:

(a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of

a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any

acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is

permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of

his residence; and

( shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person

for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

Yep. Already quoted it two posts above yours.

[strickj]

this is a fed law, not a state law!

27 Sec. 478.30 Out-of-State disposition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No nonlicensee shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or

deliver any firearm to any other nonlicensee, who the transferor knows

or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person

is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of

business in) the State in which the transferor resides: Provided, That

the provisions of this section:

(a) shall not apply to the transfer, transportation, or delivery of

a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any

acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is

permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of

his residence; and

( shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person

for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

That means that if you believe the buyer lives out of state,you can not sell to them.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

I DID SAY YOU HAVE TO ASK IF IT IS OK FOR THEM TO HAVE SAID FIREARM, remember? so if you know or have reasonable cause to believe, it is wrong, but if not????? just splitting hairs.

but it would be less hassle and safer just to use your ffl to transfer it to you.

Edited August 30, 2009 by H0TSH0T

[Daniel]

Good god, the inaccuracies in this thread is legendary.

Guns cannot cross state lines for sale except to or through a FFL. No ID swapping is required by law, either federal or TN state. Other states might be different.

You are violating federal law if you do.

You may only purchase face to face between residents of the same state.

You want a gun from a resident of another state, it has to be either shipped to a FFL in your own state, or the seller beings it with them to a FFL in the buyers state, give it to the FFL who then logs it in. The FFL dealer then transfers it to the buyer on a 4473, does the background check, and then transfers it to the buyer after successful completion of the background check.

This information is on the ATF website under the FAQ section. Check that area first before advocating people to violate federal law.

Thanks. What I thought.

[Daniel]

but it would be less hassle and legal just to use your ffl to transfer it to you.

fixed

[Guest SureShot308]

I'm afraid Strick and bkelm are right. For a firearm to transfer across a state line it has to go through an FFL. Even if the state law was as you believe it was, as soon as that weapon crosses a state line it is covered by federal law not state law. So, both states would have to have the same law allowing that which no states do so it doesn't really matter. You can transfer to a non-FFL in state, not to another state.

[Currently]

This thread is living proof that the internet is filled with inaccuracies that will get an ignorant person who sees and hears what they want to believe in deep trouble.

The most critical point made in this thread is when you cross a state line, the transaction now falls in federal jurisdiction.

I was a FFL holder in the distant past when anyone with a clean nose and a tax id number could obtain one for 30 dollars. I released the license when the rates went up to $300. It was not a business, it was a hobby which the then new regulations were designed to eliminate as a subclass of FFL holders.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do this and there are consequences to both choices. The former allows a paper trail pointing to the firearm(s) in question. The latter opens up a veritable morass of legal problems from the "understanding and compassionate" members of the BATF. (That last sentence is laden with sarcasm for those that have trouble interpreting the written word in a forum.)

Pleading ignorance to the law is no excuse for breaking it.

The private party in the other state does not need a ffl holder. The private party in the other state MUST ship to a ffl holder in the buyer's state. The private party must also provide a copy of their drivers license in the package that is shipped to the buyer's ffl holder.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Currently

[DaveTN]

Good god, the inaccuracies in this thread is legendary.

You beat me to it.

[Guest bkelm18]

The private party must also provide a copy of their drivers license in the package that is shipped to the buyer's ffl holder.

I don't believe that is a requirement. I could be wrong. Could you quote the law on that?

Edited August 30, 2009 by bkelm18

[Guest bkelm18]

I DID SAY YOU HAVE TO ASK IF IT IS OK FOR THEM TO HAVE SAID FIREARM, remember? so if you know or have reasonable cause to believe, it is wrong, but if not????? just splitting hairs.

but it would be less hassle and safer just to use your ffl to transfer it to you.

I'm pretty sure you are not understanding the law still. It does not matter if it is ok for them to own a firearm or not. If it crosses state lines, it MUST go through an FFL. That, as you said yourself, is a FEDERAL law.

[TNFlyer]

Since we are talking about buying guns out of state the definition of residency comes into play. Here is the ATF's definition of residency. This is straight from the atf.gov and backs up my earlier post.

So, basically you could go to a state have a real estate agent show you a few houses, apply for a job at Mickey D's and you're set.

My emphasis added in bold.

(B11) What constitutes residency in a State? [Back]

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,†in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(, 922(a) (3), and 922((3), 27 CFR 478.11]