Ithaca 20 gauge shell question

[Guest nascar22]

I have an early 1900's Ithaca 20 gauge side by side in excellent condition that was passed on to me by my father and it is tearing me up just letting it sit. It says smokeless powder steel on the barrel. Any suggestions on the type of load and length of shell to use. The gun has no markings as to length of shell to use. Hard for me to tell what the chamber length is but if I had to guess I would say about 3 1/2 inches and thats probably on the conservative side. It is probably longer.

Also would anyone know a good place in the Knoxville area to have fun with this type of gun? Thanks in advance for any info.

[enfield]

Your chamber length is no more than 3 inches and is possibly as short as 2-1/2". I don't know if 2-1/2" ammo is commercially available. It's not safe to shoot modern 2-3/4" or 3" shells in a short-chambered gun.

see http://www.billhanusbirdguns.com/archive01.html

Edited August 29, 2009 by enfield

[leroy]

Dear NASCAR:______

We had a similar situation with an old Remington Side Hammer double with fluid steel barrels that was used for cowboy action shooting. We used the MAGTEC brass reloadable shells and black powder. You can find the MAGTEC brass shell casings at Midway. The beauty of using these brass shell casings is their reloadability and the ability to customize your load. We used black powder for the shell propellent to make sure we didnt damage this old gun (probably over 100 years old). Black powder is messy but great. You get this throaty kaboom and big white smoke cloud that you dont get with smokeless powder. This is a thrill that has to be experienced to be appreciated--- its great!!

However, the real, practical reason to use black powder is that it is a low pressure propellent and will not damage the gun when used in reasonable quantities. You can also use black powder substitutes like Pyrodex or Triple 7; although it aint nearly as much fun to shoot. The big problem with black powder is the unusual cleanup of the shotgun and cleaning of the cases. I use a mixture of windex without ammonia and drugstore hydrogen peroxide (what you buy in the drugstore -- cheap) and water The ratio is equal parts of windex, hydrogen peroxide, and water. I believe the recipe came from the North-South Skrmisher blog; as they use black powder muskets in renactments. I make it almost by the gallon (one quart windex, one quart drugstore hydrogen peroxide, and one quart water -- cost about $5 dollars) you can buy "black powder" solvents; but they are basically the same thing as this recipe; and cost 20 times as much. To clean the cases, deprime them and wash them in soapy water and allow them to dry. They will turn black, but that doesnt hurt anything. Black powder fouling is water loving; so the gun needs to be cleaned up before you put it up or the barrels will draw moisture and rust(you aready know you should do that with any firearm anyway).

Another little tid-bit is that if you choose to use black powder, you need to wipe the barrels down with alcohol to clean out all the petroleum based oils that may have been used in the barrels before shooting black powder shells. The black powder residue along with those petroleum oils turns into a tough, gummy, tar -like residue that is hard to remove with anything-- dont neglect this step!! After you clean the barrels with alcohol, you can use any synthetic or vegetable based oil to swab them down. I used CLP Breakfree (synthetic) or Balistol (Vegetable based) to oil everything down.

All you cowboy action guys feel free to jump in on this one and help with reloading data and cleaning tips

All this seems more complicated than it really is. Once you get the shotgun ready for black powder; it is actually easier to clean up than when using smokeless powder. Just swab the barrels and wipe the action with the cleaner, dry the barrels and action with a clean patch, then re-oil. The black powder fouling simply dissolves when the cleaning solution hits it.

This is a great way to enjoy your vintage double barrel that is almost exactly the way that your grandfather or great grandfather did it. Black powder is a great thing and is extremely fun to shoot.

Have fun with your shotgun!!

Kind regrds,

LEROY

[Warbird]

Need more info on the gun. Pics would be good.

DO NOT use black powder in this gun! Standard modern ammo is just fine. Use lighter loads, say 1oz. And no steel shot.

It is likely 2 3/4" chamber.

Excellent guns.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Warbird

[gregintenn]

If it's what I think it is, you can shoot any 2-3/4" shells you can get your hands on through it. I doubt it was chambered for 3" shells. Those guns lock up like a bank vault, and the smokeless powder designation on the barrels means it has been proff tested for high pressure loads. The Ithaca doubles, while not as talked about as the Parkers and such, are the cream of the crop as far as I'm concerned. I hunt with an Ithaca 12 guage double.

[Guest nascar22]

Thank you all for your responses. After reading the article provided by enfield (thank you), I did some unscientific measurments and I am 99% sure it a 3 inch chamber. I did this by measuring from the beginning of the barrel to the beginning of the forcing cone. This measured 3 inches.

The serial numbers match on all 3 pieces and begin with 217. There is also "s20" stamped as well. You may be able to tell from the pictures. I have never posted pictures online before so I hope it works out.

The gun is very well put together and very tight in every action. I would say it is put together better than half of all new shotguns produced today and I can see why they were popular then and now. I just can't bring myself to let it sit. I was always the kid who opened and played with the baseball cards instead of putting them in the closet.

I am a little confused about the type of shot to use. Is it common for the shot to be lead or steel? I was at wally world last night and was reading the boxes of shells and it did not say what the shot was made of.

Once I figure out which shells to use I need a place to shoot. Any suggestions in the East Tennessee area?

I really appreciate everybody's help.

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http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp135/321wardley/gun009.jpg

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp135/321wardley/gun010.jpg

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp135/321wardley/gun011.jpg

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[enfield]

Use lead shot. If the box doesn't specify that the shot is steel, bismuth or unobtainium, you can be sure it's lead.

The non-lead shot is used for hunting migratory waterfowl and is usually more expensive than lead.

[Warbird]

It's a field grade Ithaca Flues. You can search for the date of manufacture at the following website Serial Numbers by Dates of Production

It was made in 1912.

If you look under the forend you should also see an F marked there.

Typically shotgun shells have lead unless marked steel. You do not want to shoot steel shot in it. THough they had 3" chambers, no larger than 2 3/4" should be used. Stick to light loads, not the hotter fast loads.

As was said earlier modern collectors paid more attention to the AH Fox, Parker, Lefever and in recent years LC Smith. Lefever was another extremely well made gun, possibly the best of all of them and the rarest today. Ithaca collectors never marketed themselves nearly as much, but Ithaca who bought Lefever, is ranked right up there with the others in terms of durability and ability. These were the elite shotguns of the day. These are the American doubles worth something today. Though Ithaca bought Lefever, the Ithaca shotgun is far closer in design to the AH Fox than the Lefever in lockup.

IMO the Ithaca and Fox for that matter, were never the prettiest designs of the elites. However, they have proven to possibly be the most durable, having less inherent problems than Parker and LC Smiths. I am not surprised your gun locks up tight, you really have to abuse them to loosen them up substantially.

The field grade was then as it is now the working gun. They were not working guns however of the poor. They were fairly expensive in the day. But they were owned by successful upper middle income people as hunting guns and as the field gun for those who also owned the engraved pieces for clays and special hunts. Only the very wealthy owned many shotguns and these guns were used to hunt just about anything from rabbit to waterfowl. you could buy them from 26" to 32", most common probably being 26, 28 and 30. A 26' was probably a grouse gun, pheasant, and rabbit. The longer barreled guns likely were originally bought buy waterfowlers. Though these might have been their primary duties as I said, they more than likely saw action in many different types of uses.

It is always nice to have heirlooms, i have several myself. Use it well. That is what they were made for. This is not a wall hanger.

I still shoot clays, vintage events and hunts and use them on regular hunts. I have put as much as 400 rounds in a weekend event through my Ithaca without so much as a hiccup.

I said this in another thread not long ago, but get out with that gun and use it just as your ancestors did. I have found it a great way to connect my loves and passions with those long since gone who shared my same interests. It connects us all. Not so much has changed after all. perhaps that is the sentimentalist in me, but that my 2c, for what it's worth.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Warbird

[gregintenn]

Nice shotgun. I didn't realize they had 3" chambers. As others said, I would stick to 2-3/4" loads. They are much easier on the shoulder and wallet anyway. If you just want to shoot some clay pigeons, I'd just get #8 field loads. They are still quite economical at WalMart or Academy Sports, especially right now; just before dove season.