Properly Posted or Not?

[Daniel]

Seems to be common knowledge amongst us.

[Guest Ravendove]

Exactly right. Amongst us, who frequent a message board with the intent to stay current on laws specifically regarding the carry of firearms.

[Mariner]

Seems to me that when the idiots in Nashville brought the suit in court saying the law wasn't clear enough and HCP holders may carry into an establishment that may make most of their sales off of alcohol. Their was a lot of complaining on the forum because they were just trying to find a loop hole to repeal the law and we were smart enough to know the differance. Yet now some want to say they will just walk by a sign because it is not worded exactly and so the meaning is not clearly defined by the law, seems like a double standard to me. If it says no guns then why give the media the ammunition they need to shows us in a bad light. I think with some it comes down to it is their ball and if you don't play the way they want, then they will take their ball and go home.

[memphismason]

While I agree about the circle with the slash...if I see a "No firearms allowed" that to me is substantial enough...and I bet a prosecuter would love to help interpret the law by using you as an example...

With that in mind...which is better...spending thousands on a defense attorney for the 30 dollar meal you could have got somewhere else (and poss..no PROBABLY losing) ....or......spending thousands on another gun, or something fun with the family?

Me, I am thinking that up until July, we couldnt carry there ANYWAY, so I already have my list of places I can go...and now I have a few more that did not post at all...so the choice is simple really, they dont get my business....

for those that carry anyway, let me ask...do you think you are "sticking" it to them by carrying? cause really, if anything, you are STILL PAYING THE ANTI's!!!

Personally, I will not support any business that does not support me as an individual. period. Why not just donate to the Brady bunch?

Sticking it to them.....no sir, just don't care about their BS signs.

[Guest canynracer]

Sticking it to them.....no sir, just don't care about their BS signs.

Ok...but why support them? they dont support you....

better yet...

did you care when the signs were not needed, and it was the law that you couldnt go?

[memphismason]

Seems to me that when the idiots in Nashville brought the suit in court saying the law wasn't clear enough and HCP holders may carry into an establishment that may make most of their sales off of alcohol. Their was a lot of complaining on the forum because they were just trying to find a loop hole to repeal the law and we were smart enough to know the differance. Yet now some want to say they will just walk by a sign because it is not worded exactly and so the meaning is not clearly defined by the law, seems like a double standard to me. If it says no guns then why give the media the ammunition they need to shows us in a bad light. I think with some it comes down to it is their ball and if you don't play the way they want, then they will take their ball and go home.

"If it says no guns then why give the media the ammunition they need to shows us in a bad light."

Yeah, cause we know how those crazy guns like to screw around.

[memphismason]

Ok...but why support them? they dont support you....

better yet...

did you care when the signs were not needed, and it was the law that you couldnt go?

Thats a topic not needed to be discussed in public.

[Guest HexHead]

Personally, I will not support any business that does not support me as an individual. period. Why not just donate to the Brady bunch?

That pretty much sums it up for me.

But as far as a restaurant owner that should know better, what part of Rayburn's "Guns- Never, Free Parking- Always" signage is "substantially similar"?

[Guest Ravendove]

That pretty much sums it up for me.

But as far as a restaurant owner that should know better, what part of Rayburn's "Guns- Never, Free Parking- Always" signage is "substantially similar"?

Well, to point out the obvious, it isn't. But then, what part of that sign is difficult to understand? I see what you're saying, and you are right. It doesn't meet the legal requirements. The intention, though, is pretty obvious.

Of course, Mr. Rayburn seems to have another intention with this particular sign and I'm fairly certain that is to be an ass. It's belligerent to a ridiculous degree. After that slight, he could take his signs down and I still wouldn't go there.

[memphismason]

I will not be carrying this in there.

Edited August 31, 2009 by memphismason

[Mariner]

"If it says no guns then why give the media the ammunition they need to shows us in a bad light."

Yeah, cause we know how those crazy guns like to screw around.

You obviously don't understand my point. My gun doesn't have a mind of its own and will not just start shooting away on its own, and to imply that is what I was thinking is absurd. But when you get made in the restaraunt and the media gets ahold of how some stupid soccer mom freaked out, we will all look like trouble makers. And I have heard a thousand times that people will get away with it because they conceal properly. Yeah nobody ever trips or stumbles or catches their shirt on anything.

[Guest canynracer]

Thats a topic not needed to be discussed in public.

LOL...fair enough!

[Guest canynracer]

When I see a gun picture with a slash and no verbage I will carry if I'm armed and have no choice at the time to be there. I guess you smokers leave your smokes in the car when you see a cigg with a slash. I thought that just meant you couldn't pull them out and light up. So a slash with a pistol means the same thing right.

Show me a circle with an UNLIT cig.... the sign is No SMOKING, not No CIGS...

the slash with a pistol means NO GUNS...not NO SHOOTING

[memphismason]

You obviously don't understand my point. My gun doesn't have a mind of its own and will not just start shooting away on its own, and to imply that is what I was thinking is absurd. But when you get made in the restaraunt and the media gets ahold of how some stupid soccer mom freaked out, we will all look like trouble makers. And I have heard a thousand times that people will get away with it because they conceal properly. Yeah nobody ever trips or stumbles or catches their shirt on anything.

Why yes sir, I am very absurd. Thats how I roll.

[JayC]

Being that I work in restaurant industry, that's an awful big stretch there... most *managers* are not that smart. Mom & Pop owners of a single franchise are also likely to be not that smart.

However corporate-owned locations, or large franchise groups *are* likely to be that smart. The company I work for researched what signs were needed to be "proper" and ordered them (apparently the state makes them available for restaurants that are so inclined to properly post).

The state does not make them available, if they do that would be a HUGE problem and we would want to report that.

They likely got the no carry signs from the local or state restaurant association.

[Guest D.B. Cooper]

The state does not make them available, if they do that would be a HUGE problem and we would want to report that.

They likely got the no carry signs from the local or state restaurant association.

Possibly a state restaurant association. Definitely not local... since we're in Chattanooga and the sticker-signs had to be mailed from Nashville. I got my information third hand as to where we got them, so I may be wrong... but my source says they came from the "state". Could be that the mean the "state" restaurant association.

Either way, SOMEbody is providing windows signs that allow restaurants to be properly posted.

[Guest ab28]

This isnt it.

If I saw this sign, I would take it to mean no Beretta 92F's allowed in this building. Since I carry a Glock, it doesn't apply to me.

[Guest HexHead]

I will not be carrying this in there.

Who in the hell carries one of those anyway? There's a reason thigh holsters were invented.

[dralarms]

Who in the hell carries one of those anyway? There's a reason thigh holsters were invented.

Wait a cotton picking minute, i'm carrying a 96d, OWb right now. Itis no more "visable than my 40c I usually carry (but DavidTGO has it in the shop).

[Mousegun]

How nice and how somewhat unnecessary this all would be if state law did not make it a crime to enter a building that was posted unless if asked to leave, a lawful firearm carrier would refuse.

This is the law that should be changed, NOT proper verbage of a sign.

[Guest Bill Lumberg]

Well put. If you're primary plan is to disregard both the law and the owner's wishes, you aren't a very good planner. Feigning ignorance as an excuse to do as you please is something I'd expect from an adolescent, not a grown permittee.

You obviously don't understand my point. My gun doesn't have a mind of its own and will not just start shooting away on its own, and to imply that is what I was thinking is absurd. But when you get made in the restaraunt and the media gets ahold of how some stupid soccer mom freaked out, we will all look like trouble makers. And I have heard a thousand times that people will get away with it because they conceal properly. Yeah nobody ever trips or stumbles or catches their shirt on anything.

[TomR]

Some members seem to be saying that if a business has a "no firearms" sign that does not meet state requirements, the ban is not legally enforceable and it's ok to carry there. Let's take that logic to an extreme. Suppose the owner in an unposted or improperly posted business becomes aware that you are carrying, tells you that he/she doesn't want guns in the establishment, and asks you to leave. Are you going to say, "I won't leave until a sign meeting state standards is displayed." I don't think so. That would be stepping in it. It would be better to explain how to properly post the business, let the owner know that you and other permit holders will take their business elsewhere, and leave. We need to educate business owners, not to antagonize them and look like a bunch of gun nuts in the process.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

Some members seem to be saying that if a business has a "no firearms" sign that does not meet state requirements, the ban is not legally enforceable and it's ok to carry there. Let's take that logic to an extreme. Suppose the owner in an unposted or improperly posted business becomes aware that you are carrying, tells you that he/she doesn't want guns in the establishment, and asks you to leave. Are you going to say, "I won't leave until a sign meeting state standards is displayed." I don't think so. That would be stepping in it. It would be better to explain how to properly post the business, let the owner know that you and other permit holders will take their business elsewhere, and leave. We need to educate business owners, not to antagonize them and look like a bunch of gun nuts in the process.

at that point you must leave according to the law even if it is just an employee. if they ask you or tell you, as a permit holder if you wish to keep that permit you will have to honor that request and leave.

but if i was in the middle of a meal, and asked, i would leave and simply not pay for the meal and atmosphere i didn't completely eat or enjoy at their request.( if they don't care for my safety i would assume they take the same standards in food prep and service.)

[Fallguy]

It would be better to explain how to properly post the business, let the owner know that you and other permit holders will take their business elsewhere, and leave. We need to educate business owners, not to antagonize them and look like a bunch of gun nuts in the process.

Many think you shouldn't ever be made in the first place if you are concealing properly, however if you are made, many more think there is no reason to inform the property owner of the correct law. No reason to make it a criminal act if someone carries (on purpose or by accident) in the future.

I admit a while back I used to think it would be better to inform a place on how to post a proper sign, but over the years I have modified that way of thinking. However if a place has made a public issue their desire to ban firearms, then Yes, it may need to be informed of the proper way to do it, but in general, I'd say No.

[Bassoneer]

I ate lunch at a restaurant yesterday that still had the old red-letter sign up by the front of the establishment...the one that says it is a misdemeaner punishable by 11 months and 29 days if you carry a handgun where alcohol is served. However, there was no posting that said "handguns not allowed", no red-slash over a gun, and certainly no "official" posting. So, I just ate and left, thought about saying something to the waitress but didn't. Why do you think they still have that out-dated sign up? B