Properly Posted or Not?

[Daniel]

Correct cosmos. If carrying illegally or pretending not to undersrtand signage is your plan A, you'll need a good plan B.

No one is talking about not adhering to legal postings.

[JayC]

Again, I agree it's a personal choice to give your money to a business that has improperly posted. I won't tell anybody not to, since it is still legal to carry those establishments. Just like I don't try and tell people how they should carry (OC vs CC).

But, do us all a favor and don't try to rationalize how if they really were anti-2A or anti-HCP they would have properly posted, and because they haven't somehow they're on our side.

Just be true to reality, if they posted improperly they're anti-2A anti-HCP, and you just don't care enough to do business elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong that sometimes I choose to carry concealed instead of open because it's just easier for me (don't have to answer stupid questions from family members).

Again, this isn't pointed at anybody but I've seen a number of people who appear to seriously think that improper postings are some clever support the business owner is giving HCP holders while keeping their sheeple customers happy, which is just a load of **** imho.

[Daniel]

don't try to rationalize how if they really were anti-2A or anti-HCP they would have properly posted, and because they haven't somehow they're on our side.

I realize I said agreed when that was originally posted... I should have said that an incorrectly posted business is the same as a non posted one to me.

[Guest beefcakeb0]

well i dont know the difference, but if they were properly and legally posted i sure as hell wouldnt patronize them, i will not go outside and unarm to make then at ease again, some eateries have actually admitted to the dumb peoples sign, because it does calm the ignorant, and a few have claimed so as a knowledgable operator

[Guest logicprevails]

It all comes down to the risk vs. reward. Is there a risk of financial cost/legal troubles on some level for being discovered carrying where a sign was posted establishing 'intent' to ban carry? Yep. Is it a likely scenario that you'd be discovered? Depends; depth of concealment, awareness of the establishment, etc, but likely not.

If discovered, you would most likely be simply asked to leave. At that point you must, or it's trespass. If you have the misfortune of the event being witnessed by an LEO who happens to be in the establishment, you may be charged with a misdemeanor for violation, as it is an officer's discretion issue. In that event, you'd need to convince a judge (more than likely one leaning more left than you) that the intent of the posting isn't important, but that the technicality of the posting, is paramount to public safety in his or her viewpoint.

At best the media would paint it as 'activist HCP holder' looking for conflict.

[Guest beefcakeb0]

mostly true, but with a proper defense attorney, the law is pretty clear although "substantially similar" is vague, the law says a bit, and if you use good judgement as to how close the sign is to compliance, then the case should be dismissed

[Punisher84]

I don't carry past any sign if I don't have to, I will carry past an improper sign if it's a necessity.

Now as far as the whole "owner/operator being aware of the proper signage" issue here is my statement. I am not told every law that pertains to being a gun owner and HCP holder in this state or carrying into another state, but is is MY responsibility to be aware of and follow those laws. I.E If you want to post a sign to keep permit holders out you should know the law and post a proper sign.

[TNTitan]

I guess it comes down the what is considered "substantially similar" wording. That is very relative and ultimately its up to the Judge to decide. He may very well say that ALL of these improper postings are "substantially similar" to the recommended verbiage and in that case, this entire thread is moot.

[Punisher84]

I guess it comes down the what is considered "substantially similar" wording. That is very relative and ultimately its up to the Judge to decide. He may very well say that ALL of these improper postings are "substantially similar" to the recommended verbiage and in that case, this entire thread is moot.

Geez...killjoy.

[TNTitan]

sorry bro.. call it like i see it

[Guest beefcakeb0]

thats why we have the appeals process

[Punisher84]

sorry bro.. call it like i see it

Lol you're 100% right though. A trainer I used to work with and I were talking about this one day and I said something to the effect of "Well it has to be substantially similar." He responded with "Yea, but who gets to interpret 'substantially'?" I was thinking Oh yea...lol

[macville]

Lol you're 100% right though. A trainer I used to work with and I were talking about this one day and I said something to the effect of "Well it has to be substantially similar." He responded with "Yea, but who gets to interpret 'substantially'?" I was thinking Oh yea...lol

The law needs to be changed (which actually shouldn't be that hard next session) that it must be the exact wording, except if you ban it on the entire property it says "property" or if you just ban it in a building, it just says "building". How simple can that be? Any other wording is not legal.

Matthew

[MudBugjr]

When I see a gun picture with a slash and no verbage I will carry if I'm armed and have no choice at the time to be there. I guess you smokers leave your smokes in the car when you see a cigg with a slash. I thought that just meant you couldn't pull them out and light up. So a slash with a pistol means the same thing right.

[memphismason]

When I see a gun picture with a slash and no verbage I will carry if I'm armed and have no choice at the time to be there. I guess you smokers leave your smokes in the car when you see a cigg with a slash. I thought that just meant you couldn't pull them out and light up. So a slash with a pistol means the same thing right.

that is awesome.

[JayC]

I guess it comes down the what is considered "substantially similar" wording. That is very relative and ultimately its up to the Judge to decide. He may very well say that ALL of these improper postings are "substantially similar" to the recommended verbiage and in that case, this entire thread is moot.

He could, but the AG letter on the subject would probably give you a basis for not having intent to violate the law. While it's not been tested in court, it is the best advice the chief law enforcement officer on TN has to say on the subject.

And it clearly states what is 'substantially similar' and what isn't.

[Guest logicprevails]

When I see a gun picture with a slash and no verbage I will carry if I'm armed and have no choice at the time to be there. I guess you smokers leave your smokes in the car when you see a cigg with a slash. I thought that just meant you couldn't pull them out and light up. So a slash with a pistol means the same thing right.

Shhhh. The gubment is gonna start requiring a permit to carry smokes, now.

For me, its just easier to not give any money to an establishment that improperly posts.

mostly true, but with a proper defense attorney, the law is pretty clear although "substantially similar" is vague, the law says a bit, and if you use good judgement as to how close the sign is to compliance, then the case should be dismissed

I also don't like giving money to defense attorneys; so, even if improperly posted, I go carry my smokes and smoker elsewhere.

[Guest kirkosaurus]

I would take this sign to mean semi-autos aren't allowed but I can freely carry my revolver.

[memphismason]

I would take this sign to mean semi-autos aren't allowed but I can freely carry my revolver.

+1

[Guest D.B. Cooper]

The way I see it is:

If an owner/manager is smart enough to run their own restaurant, then they are definitely smart enough to know how to research the proper way to post their establishment against HCP holder carrying a firearm into their business. Any posting that is not correct, says to me that the owner/manager understand the sheeple's concerns and the HCP holder's rights, and by displaying an incorrect sign, will set the "soccer mom's" mind at ease, and at the same time legally allow a HCP to continue to carry and spend their money.

Keep concealed, don't drink, and keep on rockin in the free world.

No bubbles, No troubles.

Being that I work in restaurant industry, that's an awful big stretch there... most *managers* are not that smart. Mom & Pop owners of a single franchise are also likely to be not that smart.

However corporate-owned locations, or large franchise groups *are* likely to be that smart. The company I work for researched what signs were needed to be "proper" and ordered them (apparently the state makes them available for restaurants that are so inclined to properly post).

[Guest canynracer]

While I agree about the circle with the slash...if I see a "No firearms allowed" that to me is substantial enough...and I bet a prosecuter would love to help interpret the law by using you as an example...

With that in mind...which is better...spending thousands on a defense attorney for the 30 dollar meal you could have got somewhere else (and poss..no PROBABLY losing) ....or......spending thousands on another gun, or something fun with the family?

Me, I am thinking that up until July, we couldnt carry there ANYWAY, so I already have my list of places I can go...and now I have a few more that did not post at all...so the choice is simple really, they dont get my business....

for those that carry anyway, let me ask...do you think you are "sticking" it to them by carrying? cause really, if anything, you are STILL PAYING THE ANTI's!!!

Personally, I will not support any business that does not support me as an individual. period. Why not just donate to the Brady bunch?

[Daniel]

I havent knowingly carried into anywhere with an incorrect sign yet. I do not feel like I would be sticking it to anyone though.

[Guest mcgyver210]

While I agree about the circle with the slash...if I see a "No firearms allowed" that to me is substantial enough...and I bet a prosecuter would love to help interpret the law by using you as an example...

With that in mind...which is better...spending thousands on a defense attorney for the 30 dollar meal you could have got somewhere else (and poss..no PROBABLY losing) ....or......spending thousands on another gun, or something fun with the family?

Me, I am thinking that up until July, we couldnt carry there ANYWAY, so I already have my list of places I can go...and now I have a few more that did not post at all...so the choice is simple really, they dont get my business....

for those that carry anyway, let me ask...do you think you are "sticking" it to them by carrying? cause really, if anything, you are STILL PAYING THE ANTI's!!!

Personally, I will not support any business that does not support me as an individual. period. Why not just donate to the Brady bunch?

I couldn't have said it better well thought out & exactly what I have been doing.

One of my favorite Mexican Restaurants has posted the old required sign on their door which I assumed it was meant for HCP holders so I asked but the cashier couldn't understand me. We did eat anyway this time & I didn't ask until we left. The funny thing was I found my self not enjoying my meal eve a little because I was constantly watching everyone for any sign of possible wrong doing.

I learned that I wont be going in posted places if at all possible due to me no longer feeling safe because they are posted which to me says everyone here is an easy target. I also now carry more than I ever have.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

I am not told every law that pertains to being a gun owner and HCP holder in this state or carrying into another state, but is is MY responsibility to be aware of and follow those laws. I.E If you want to post a sign to keep permit holders out you should know the law and post a proper sign.

[Guest Ravendove]

I don't think it really comes down to how "smart" a restaurant owner or manager is. It just isn't common knowledge that there is a legally defined specificity required of a "no guns allowed" sign in order for it to be valid. That being the case, one can't really be expected to come to the conclusion that they need to research the requirements. Common sense, and I hate using that term, would suggest that putting a sign up in plain sight, at all entrances, and clearly legible that says no guns allowed would be all you need.

On the other hand, if the owner/manager is that serious about his position, researching the law in its entirety would probably be a good idea.

And aside from whether it's legal or not and whether we support them with our money or not, I don't want to be the one sending a message to the public and the media that HCP holders are harbingers of disrespect. Walking armed into a business that has a sign saying no guns, just because it doesn't meet legal requirements, is a complete and blatant gesture of disrespect toward the business and its owner. Whether you feel that lack of respect is warranted or not, and whether I agree with you on that assumption or not, doesn't change what it is. And making statements that you will do such is the kind of action that makes it harder for the rest of us to secure our rights. The people who were against us regarding this legislation always said HCP holders would probably just ignore signs. Whether it's legally legitimate or not, by doing so, you're making them right. How much harder will it be to pass the next set of legislation in our favor because of that?