No HCP on personal property?

[JayC]

I agree.

I also acknowledge that LEOs are generally confronting everyone they see armed on private property and demanding they poduce a HCP and/or proof of it being their residence.

But as you said, I just don't think the law should say simply possesing a firearm is a violation of the law and that you have to prove that you fall into one of the defense to the law situations.

Agreed +10000 that is the fix we need.

[Guest grimel]

I believe you are incorrect here.

Per the TN code:

This law does not state whether you are on private or public property. Only that on demand of a law enforcement officer you shall display the permit.

You are incorrect, people at a public or private range are not required to have a HCP.

[Fallguy]

You are incorrect, people at a public or private range are not required to have a HCP.

The question is not whether you have to have one or not, but that if you do have one, that you have to show it if asked......even if you are in a situation where you don't have to have one.

As the law is written, it would appear if you have a HCP you have to present it to a LEO if he ask to see it, even if you aren't in a place or situation where it is required to have it.

[saintsfanbrian]

You are incorrect, people at a public or private range are not required to have a HCP.

Whether or not you have to have one is irrelevant. Once you acquire a handgun carry permit in the state of TN. if a law enforcement officer while carrying out their official duties asks you for your permit you are REQUIRED to show it to them. If you never had a permit and are in a place where you are legally allowed to be in possession of a loaded firearm all you have to do is prove t hat you are legally allowed to be in possession.

Sorry, but with "rights" comes responsibilities. While the carrying of a firearm should be guaranteed under the constitution and no state should "regulate" the wearing of arms, TN does and we pay $115 to start and then $50 every 4 years to keep the "right". With that right we have AGREED to obey the rules.

[Chief07]

Yes, if you do not have a permit and are at a range, in your back yard, at Grandma's house etc and an LEO asks you to present a permit you don't have to because you don't have one. I have one so I would have to.

We are agreed. Having a permit means more responsibilities which I hope is considered prior to getting one.

Thank you for clearing that up.

Ray ;-)

[Guest jwb68]

Of course if you do not happen to be carrying that day you do not have to show it.

[Fallguy]

Of course if you do not happen to be carrying that day you do not have to show it.

You do if asked....

[USMCJG]

You do if asked....

Really? Does that mean that you must always be carrying your HCP, regardless of where you are or what you are doing(even on your own property), whether you are carrying a handgun or not? That just doesn't seem right to me. I'm not saying that you aren't correct, just saying that if that's the law it doesn't seem right. I don't have to have my driver's license with me when I'm mowing the lawn or riding my dirt bike.

[Fallguy]

Really? Does that mean that you must always be carrying your HCP, regardless of where you are or what you are doing(even on your own property), whether you are carrying a handgun or not? That just doesn't seem right to me. I'm not saying that you aren't correct, just saying that if that's the law it doesn't seem right. I don't have to have my driver's license with me when I'm mowing the lawn or riding my dirt bike.

What the law says, is you must present it if asked for it by a LEO. It doesn't make any exceptions for where you are at the time or whether you are armed at the time or not.

Now how many will ask you for it in a situation where it is not required, who knows, but it has happened.

It also says you only have to have your HCP at times you are armed. Of course it probably means outside of your home or property, but it doesn't specifically say that either.

Some of this came up from a person being asked for their HCP by a LEO on their own property, so it has happened.

As far as mowing your lawn or riding your dirt bike in your yard......there are no laws against those activites. There is a law against carrying a weapon.

Edited August 30, 2009 by Fallguy

[USMCJG]

What the law says, is you must present it if asked for it by a LEO. It doesn't make any exceptions for where you are at the time or whether you are armed at the time or not.

Now how many will ask you for it in a situation where it is not required, who knows, but it has happened.

It also says you only have to have your HCP at times you are armed. Of course it probably means outside of your home or property, but it doesn't specifically say that either.

Some of this came up from a person being asked for their HCP by a LEO on their own property, so it has happened.

As far as mowing your lawn or riding your dirt bike in your yard......there are no laws against those activites. There is a law against carrying a weapon.

The two statements above in bold text seem to be contradictory.

I know that this discussion originated because a person was asked for their HCP on their own property. And I understand what you are saying about the lawn mowing/dirt bike issue vs. carrying a gun. It seems, as may have been mentioned before, that we need to change the law so that carrying a weapon on your own property is legal, rather than just being a defense. And to clarify that you must only possess your HCP when you are in possession of a handgun, excluding those situations when you are not "armed" as defined by law and would be legally transporting a handgun whether you had an HCP or not(for example to the range).

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

Cliff

[DaveTN]

It seems, as may have been mentioned before, that we need to change the law so that carrying a weapon on your own property is legal, rather than just being a defense.

Has this ever been an issue? Has a person ever been arrested in this state for no crime other than carrying on property that they own?

And has this ever been addressed in case law?

[Fallguy]

Has this ever been an issue? Has a person ever been arrested in this state for no crime other than carrying on property that they own?

And has this ever been addressed in case law?

To my limited knowledge, the answer would be No to all 3 questions. Except in possible cases of a felon in possession of a firearm on their property.

[USMCJG]

Has this ever been an issue? Has a person ever been arrested in this state for no crime other than carrying on property that they own?

And has this ever been addressed in case law?

I don't know if anyone has been arrested on their own property in Tennessee for doing nothing more than carrying a firearm. Nor do I know if there is any case law on it. But I don't see any reason to leave the possibility open that it could arise as a problem. It would be easier to just say that the U.S. Constitution applies to everyone, interpreted as it was originally intended, and do away with all of the nonsense all together.

But if the law is going to say anything about it, I'd like it to say that my Second Amendment rights at least cover me while on my own property. That the state of Tennessee(apparently) says that it is against the law for me to carry a gun on my own property, but being on my own property provides me a defense, just rubs me the wrong way.

Cliff

[Glock30Owner]

And again, part of having a permit you have stated that you agree to the fact that in the official course of his duties if an LEO asks you for it you WILL present it.

P.S. I wasn't leo bashing.

I didn't. I stated that I would provide my HCP to LE upon DEMAND, not request. There is a difference.

Police Officers have a job that must be done, but they are not required to look out for our rights that we voluntarily give up (knowingly or unkowingly). That is our job.

[Guest Ravendove]

It probably goes without saying that a denied request would be followed by a demand. I just don't see how anything positive could come of that. Many HCP holders complain that while there are plenty of police officers that respect and support our right to carry, there are a good number of those that would like to see that right go away. Getting into a confrontation about something as simple as pulling a card out of your wallet will accomplish nothing but give the second group more ammunition while giving the first group a less positive opinion of us. I, personally, would rather the officers on our side to be in the majority and a reasonable level of courtesy and patience is the best way to accomplish that.

[spookboy]

maybe i missed this, If i am cayying in my yard and DONT have a permit, then what? do i get disarmed and questioned? or if i pull my d.L. to prove thats where i live is that enough?

[Fallguy]

maybe i missed this, If i am cayying in my yard and DONT have a permit, then what? do i get disarmed and questioned? or if i pull my d.L. to prove thats where i live is that enough?

In reality, nothing would problem happen unless there was more going on, than you simply being armed.

Technically you could have to show that it is your yard.

[Guest canynracer]

Folks...cops dont just cruise neighborhoods and begin "demanding papers"

they are there for a reason, you are being asked for a reason...

it is not a requirement to have an HCP to own a gun, so if you dont have an HCP, and they ask while you are on your property, simply say, "No officer, I dont have a permit"

if you DO have an HCP, but you are NOT carrying your gun, simply say "Officer, I do have one, but I am not armed, so its in the house"

If you DO have an HCP and you ARE armed, show them your permit cause you are required to have it on you while you carry.

and no, this wont work

and neither will this little GEM!!!

[Guest 270win]

I don't see the need of having to carry a permit when on your own property/rented property/space(like hotel) because the law does not require it. A permit is one of the defenses to 'intent to go armed' just like having a firearm on your own property is. They are equally distinct defenses to 'intent to go armed'. You can walk around on your own property with a 12 gauge shotgun if you wish or a Thompson subgun....again your own property just because you want to.

[gregintenn]

If police frequent your yard, and you feel the need to carry while mowing your grass, you might want to consider moving.

[JayC]

I don't see the need of having to carry a permit when on your own property/rented property/space(like hotel) because the law does not require it. A permit is one of the defenses to 'intent to go armed' just like having a firearm on your own property is. They are equally distinct defenses to 'intent to go armed'. You can walk around on your own property with a 12 gauge shotgun if you wish or a Thompson subgun....again your own property just because you want to.

The way the current HCP law is written it requires you to carry the permit at all times when carrying a weapon, and present it on request to a police officer.

I agree what you describe *should* be the way it is, but as the law is currently written that is not the case.

[Guest jwb68]

You do if asked....

But that would require you to have it on you at all times and I dont see that in the statute.

[Oh Shoot]

... and you feel the need to carry while mowing your grass, you might want to consider moving.

I suppose that's one viewpoint.

My viewpoint is that I prefer to be armed at all times, rather than guess at some perceived level of risk.

- OS

[Fallguy]

But that would require you to have it on you at all times and I dont see that in the statute.

Let me rephrase...If you have it on you and you are asked for it, you do.

But as far as what the statute says, it says you shall have your HCP in your possesion at all times while you armed, not just when off your property.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

you can also ask the officer to get off your property, that he is trespassing unless he/she has a warrant. depending on the laws in your town, OR county and what kind of officer in present. i have seen this done first hand, by a friend, the cop was pissed and tore up his front yard with the cruiser, on his way off the property. the town i live in they are not even allowed in your driveway with out permission. how ever side walks are a different story that belongs to the public. but in my opinion your just asking for trouble, 8 months later my friend was tazed at river-bend for arguing with a cop..lol