ABC LIES

[Guest beefcakeb0]

a mexican restaurant, La Carreta, was renamed El Agave her in Bristol. actually it was just sold to another mexican cousin to avoid taxes for another 7 years. but anyway, new eating and alcohol serving establishments are reqired to undergo the standard new licenses and whatnot...

so the ABC person that came there told them that they had to have a sign, over the register saying in big bold letters MISDEMEANOR it is blah blah .... et cetera basically the opposite of the fact that it is newly legal to carry in a eatery wih a license to serve alcohol for consumption... any thoughts? it is new because they just got the license, nothing compliant to the law on the doors, andof course theyr all mexican and dont know anything about it. i plan to contact the abc sometime tomorrow but thought i would ask on here first.

[BigPoppa]

I've read this 5 times.......you've lost me.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

I've read this 5 times.......you've lost me.

[BBill_TN]

From what I have heard the "It is a Felony Punishable" sign is still required by ABC. It is still a valid sign for non-permit holders. I think the signs even still say "where beverages are sold or served". Don't think that they apply to us. Have been walking past those signs into liquor stores for some time; and think that the same would go for restaurants now. Maybe Fallguy or someone that knows more will chime in.

Edited August 27, 2009 by BBill_TN

[Guest beefcakeb0]

sorrr for rambling.... the abc woman told them they had the post a sign, provided by abc, saying its punishable by law to carry where alcohol is served

[BBill_TN]

sorrr for rambling.... the abc woman told them they had the post a sign, provided by abc, saying its punishable by law to carry where alcohol is served

It is still punishable by law to carry where alcohol is served. The new law just provided an exception for carry permit holders.

I know that it makes for a confusing situation, but I think that those signs might still be required by ABC. Maybe someone here knows. Even confusing for us; probably even more confusing for those with English as a secondary language.

I just had to explain to my gf the other day while going to the state park that those NO FIREARMS signs didn't apply to me:)

[Guest bkelm18]

Yes, that sign is still required by law to be posted.

[Guest HexHead]

sorrr for rambling.... the abc woman told them they had the post a sign, provided by abc, saying its punishable by law to carry where alcohol is served

That would be correct for people that don't have a HCP. We're exempted.

[Guest PapaB]

I'm confused. (it doesn't take much). Isn't it illegal to carry without a HCP outside your property? Maybe that law needs to be changed to reflect valid info instead of that misleading garbage. Does anyone know the code # of that law?

[waynesan]

I noticed a sign like this about a year ago in an Italian Restaurant in Kingsport so I asked the manager about it. He told me he was required by law to display it. This was before the recent change to allow carry in restaurants that serve alcohol, but the sign was still wrong and outdated because it said firearms could not be carried where alcohol is "sold or served". That has not been the law for years.

Its like the ABC is trapped in a time warp and can't make a new sign to reflect the law as it is now.

[Daniel]

I just had to explain to my gf the other day while going to the state park that those NO FIREARMS signs didn't apply to me:)

TMK, those signs do still apply until Sept 1st.

*I am incorrect*

Edited August 27, 2009 by Daniel

[LagerHead]

I'm confused. (it doesn't take much). Isn't it illegal to carry without a HCP outside your property? Maybe that law needs to be changed to reflect valid info instead of that misleading garbage. Does anyone know the code # of that law?

That is correct. The law states that it is illegal to carry a weapon either openly or concealed. It then goes on to state that an exception will be made for those actively working as a law enforcement officer, those who have a valid HCP issued or recognized by the state, etc.

[Fallguy]

TMK, those signs do still apply until Sept 1st.

Actually state parks were legall for HCP carry the date the bill was signed.

[Daniel]

Rgr Tht.

[Fallguy]

a mexican restaurant, La Carreta, was renamed El Agave her in Bristol. actually it was just sold to another mexican cousin to avoid taxes for another 7 years. but anyway, new eating and alcohol serving establishments are reqired to undergo the standard new licenses and whatnot...

so the ABC person that came there told them that they had to have a sign, over the register saying in big bold letters MISDEMEANOR it is blah blah .... et cetera basically the opposite of the fact that it is newly legal to carry in a eatery wih a license to serve alcohol for consumption... any thoughts? it is new because they just got the license, nothing compliant to the law on the doors, andof course theyr all mexican and dont know anything about it. i plan to contact the abc sometime tomorrow but thought i would ask on here first.

This has actually been discussed several times on here.

Even though the part about where "sold" is incorrect those signs are still required by law. 57-4-203(k) Here is the sign.

What the sign states is correct (other than the sold) as far as what the penalty is if someone carries that doesn't have HCP.

As far as being illegal to carry outside your home without a HCP, Yes, that is true, but different places {places that serve alcohol, parks, schools} have different penalites for illegal carry (schools still illegal even with HCP) and some are required to notify people of that by posted signs.

[Guest beefcakeb0]

thatnk you sir. you are the exedrin to my migraine

[Fallguy]

LOL

[macville]

Seems like the wording should be updated so people from out of state and people here in state that have carry permits won't be confused. It should say UNLESS you have a handgun carry permit, it's a no no.

And yes, carry is legal in state parks now. I just got back from Frozen Head state park and open carried the entire time with no problems.

Matthew

[Guest crotalus01]

I'm confused. (it doesn't take much). Isn't it illegal to carry without a HCP outside your property? Maybe that law needs to be changed to reflect valid info instead of that misleading garbage. Does anyone know the code # of that law?

Ready to be even more confused? The law says that carrying a handgun, concealed or not, is illegal, period.The possession of an HCP does not (technically) make it "legal" for you to carry a handgun, it provides a legal defense for you breaking the law. Same thing for the new restaurant carry law. It is (technically) illegal for ANYONE to carry a handgun in public, concealed or not -BUT- your HCP is a defense against that law.

Dont ask me why because I have no clue, but that is how it was explained to me, and why ABC still requires the signs.

[JayC]

a mexican restaurant, La Carreta, was renamed El Agave her in Bristol. actually it was just sold to another mexican cousin to avoid taxes for another 7 years. but anyway, new eating and alcohol serving establishments are reqired to undergo the standard new licenses and whatnot...

so the ABC person that came there told them that they had to have a sign, over the register saying in big bold letters MISDEMEANOR it is blah blah .... et cetera basically the opposite of the fact that it is newly legal to carry in a eatery wih a license to serve alcohol for consumption... any thoughts? it is new because they just got the license, nothing compliant to the law on the doors, andof course theyr all mexican and dont know anything about it. i plan to contact the abc sometime tomorrow but thought i would ask on here first.

The sign IS still a requirement under the law, it says basically states that ILLEGAL possession of a firearm is a violation of TN law.

All restaurants selling liquor should have that sign somewhere in the restaurant. It does not impact HCP holders at all.

[JayC]

I noticed a sign like this about a year ago in an Italian Restaurant in Kingsport so I asked the manager about it. He told me he was required by law to display it. This was before the recent change to allow carry in restaurants that serve alcohol, but the sign was still wrong and outdated because it said firearms could not be carried where alcohol is "sold or served". That has not been the law for years.

Its like the ABC is trapped in a time warp and can't make a new sign to reflect the law as it is now.

The sign says illegal possession... Which it is still illegal to possess a firearm in both places if you do NOT have a HCP.

[Fallguy]

Ready to be even more confused? The law says that carrying a handgun, concealed or not, is illegal, period.The possession of an HCP does not (technically) make it "legal" for you to carry a handgun, it provides a legal defense for you breaking the law. Same thing for the new restaurant carry law. It is (technically) illegal for ANYONE to carry a handgun in public, concealed or not -BUT- your HCP is a defense against that law.

100% Correct

[Fallguy]

The sign says illegal possession... Which it is still illegal to possess a firearm in both places if you do NOT have a HCP.

I think it simply says possession, not illegal possesion. At least that is what the one says linked to in Michie's http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpext.dll/tncode/%40o%40/295?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&ct=application/pdf&2.0

[waynesan]

OK, here is the sign linked to Michie.com

MISDEMEANOR. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY

OF ELEVEN (11) MONTHS TWENTY-NINE (29) DAYS IMPRISONMENT

AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED TWO THOUSAND FIVE

HUNDRED DOLLARS ($2,500) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS WHERE

ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES ARE SOLD OR SERVED.

As you can see, it says "CARRYING", not "possession" nor "illegal possession." So unless there is another sign floating around out there that some people have seen it is obvious that this sign needs to be updated to reflect the law as it is today to avoid confusion.

[Fallguy]

You're right waynesan