Help Deciding on Judge or something else

[Hitower]

I have been thinking of buying a Judge, I have read so many bad things about it that I'm a little wary of it now. I plan on getting my carry permit but i don't plan on carrying on a daily basis. More just in the car on long road trips and things but mostly just in the night stand. I do like to shoot though so its not just for looks. But i do really like the looks of the judge. Is the accuracy of the .45 bad? or is it only the spread of the.410. I had my mind on using the .45 and .410 slugs in it. I read somewhere that even .45 in it is not accurate past 7 yards or so, Is that really true? Doesn't' sound right to me. Should i go for the judge or is their something else in the same price range that would be better?

[Guest Ghostrider]

I have to confess I've never fired the 45 LC so I can't speak to that. IMO the Judge was designed as a "car gun". The 410 rounds in 000 buck will probably NOT be fatal from the drivers seat to a couple of feet outside the passenger window. However, A couple of those would probably insure that the perp could learn to read braille in prison.

I'm especially enamored of the 45 ACP round (golden sabers in my case) as an all purpose handgun round.

Have you laid hands on the Judge yet? I wouldn't have it in anything but 3 in ultralight. Otherwise it is a LARGE, HEAVY revolver.

I have seriously considered a Judge for a car gun, but since I have a 1911, a commander, and my favorite XD45c, I think I'll save that money and use it for something else.

Someone on here has a Kimber commander that has me drooling....

[Hitower]

Have you laid hands on the Judge yet? I wouldn't have it in anything but 3 in ultralight. Otherwise it is a LARGE, HEAVY revolver.

I went and looked at the ultralight a with the 3" barrel and the public defender with the 2" barrel both with the 2 1/2 cylinder. I like the public defender but it felt really small in my hand, the ultralight version felt better. However i like the bobbed hammer in the public defender. Either way i definatly dont want the 6" barrel. I would like to have the magnum version but the owner of the shop said he wouldn't carry them because they were having issues. Don't know about that.

Edited August 25, 2009 by HitowerInc

[strickj]

I have to confess I've never fired the 45 LC so I can't speak to that. IMO the Judge was designed as a "car gun". The 410 rounds in 000 buck will probably NOT be fatal from the drivers seat to a couple of feet outside the passenger window. However, A couple of those would probably insure that the perp could learn to read braille in prison.

I'm especially enamored of the 45 ACP round (golden sabers in my case) as an all purpose handgun round.

Have you laid hands on the Judge yet? I wouldn't have it in anything but 3 in ultralight. Otherwise it is a LARGE, HEAVY revolver.

I have seriously considered a Judge for a car gun, but since I have a 1911, a commander, and my favorite XD45c, I think I'll save that money and use it for something else.

Someone on here has a Kimber commander that has me drooling....

Its not 45 acp,but 45Colt.

Don't have one of these,but if I did,and used it for defense,I would have it loaded with either the 45,or buckshot.

A 410 slug wont do near the damage,or have the accuracy of the 45lc

[mousegunner]

Never worry over whether or not you are getting the "right" gun. Just get whatever floats your boat! Have some fun with it. It may turn out to be just perfect for you! On the other hand, if you discover you need something different, then trade it away, or sell it. People agonize way too much over getting the right gun. You can't really go wrong. I think the Judge looks like a fun piece of equipment!

[DaveTN]

I would like to have the magnum version but the owner of the shop said he wouldn't carry them because they were having issues. Don't know about that.

I would find out.

If you are out in your car and find the need to use deadly force; I would not want to have a .410.

Since you just want something for the car I would look at more conventional handguns.

[Guest HexHead]

It's a large pistol. I couldn't imagine carrying it in anything but a shoulder holster.

I would think a .410 or two to the face would be a deterrent, then going to the .45LC to stop the threat if necessary.

[leroy]

Never worry over whether or not you are getting the "right" gun. Just get whatever floats your boat! Have some fun with it. It may turn out to be just perfect for you! On the other hand, if you discover you need something different, then trade it away, or sell it. People agonize way too much over getting the right gun. You can't really go wrong. I think the Judge looks like a fun piece of equipment!

This is great advice. It's always better to have a gun than not to. As to the 45 Colt; Its a great cartridge. The 45 Colt was the cartridge that finished the indians and filled the old cowboy's hands. It was the official cartridge of the US army from 1873 until 1898. It is a powerful cartridge on which the greatly admired 45 ACP was modelled. Before 1935 and the advent of the 357 magnum; it was the most powerful handgun cartridge available. I've shot bunches of 45 Colt loads. They are powerful and accurate. They are a great choice for self-defense against man and beast.

Kind regards,

LEROY

[Guest m4coyote]

I would consider the light weight 2 1/2" carry model. My reasoning for this is that my buddy has a 3" inch Judge, and it would be a beast to carry or conceal in the car or on your person.

Last week we tested some different shot shells in his stainless 3" Judge. The 2 1/2" Federal Handgun shot shells were, by a considerable margin, the best performers. The shot, in both the 000 buck, and the #4 shot loads are hardened and copper plated. The powders used in these loads are optimized for use in handguns as well. Federal claims to achieve 1200 fps from these "handgun" loads.

For us, these Federal loads patterned considerably tighter, and hit noticeably harder. Penetration was definitely improved over the regular shot shells. The 3" Winchester 000 buck loads, and #4 shot loads did not perform as well as the 2 1/2" Federal "Handgun" loads.

[Guest FiddleDog]

4 32 caliber pellets at 1200 fps at once. I'd say that's compelling.

[Guest HexHead]

This is great advice. It's always better to have a gun than not to. As to the 45 Colt; Its a great cartridge. The 45 Colt was the cartridge that finished the indians and filled the old cowboy's hands. It was the official cartridge of the US army from 1873 until 1898. It is a powerful cartridge on which the greatly admired 45 ACP was modelled. Before 1935 and the advent of the 357 magnum; it was the most powerful handgun cartridge available. I've shot bunches of 45 Colt loads. They are powerful and accurate. They are a great choice for self-defense against man and beast.

Kind regards,

LEROY

Exactly. When I think of .45LC, I also think of a Colt SAA. It would be hard to think you'd feel "under gunned" with that cartridge.

[Mark@Sea]

The Box O' Truth #41 - The Taurus Judge Vs. The Box O' Truth - Page 1

Go with the 'something else' option.

[Guest donfromtexas]

The Box O' Truth #41 - The Taurus Judge Vs. The Box O' Truth - Page 1

Go with the 'something else' option.

Nothing about that "review" means a thing about self-defense. Who cares how many jugs of water a pellet will go through? I dare anyone that thinks this will not work to deter a car jacking or home invasion to stand 3 feet out and let a person shoot a Judge at them loaded with 000 buck.

One thing many people and "reviewers" fail to take into account is that the gelatin test and inches penetrated required by the FBI and law Enforcement, are needed for specific reasons, i.e able to go through car doors and windows to get to the bad guy.

I do own a 3" barrel 3" cylinder Judge and love it. I have fired the Federal ammo made for Judges (even though it is only 2 1/2") with great results. This gun can be carried easily in a belt holster. I did have to special order a holster for the magnum because they are not readily available yet, but they are coming on the market now.

The Magum Judge is not as light as the ultra-lite version in 2 1/2 cylinder, but it really does not take much to keep it on target, my wife put a few rounds down range and it didn't seem to bother her at all.

As far as shooting a 410 slug through this..... Why?? It fires .45LC's!

[Mark@Sea]

Don, if I have to shoot someone, I don't want them wounded/pissed off. I want them out of action. That review provides real-world results measured against accepted standards, which (call me crazy) beats subjective opinions based on like or dislike of the platform or cartridge. It rarely pays to disregard factors such as muzzle velocity, which has a direct bearing on terminal energy, regardless of cartridge or caliber. While the review doesn't measure muzzle velocity, it does provide raw data highly indicative of same.

Original Poster wanted help in making a decision. The review provides data rather than opinion. Don't get me wrong, personally I don't want to get shot with a BB gun at three feet, but if I were making such a decision, I'd want all available facts before proceeding.

[TnShooter83]

Honestly......

It is only good at one thing. Slinging lead in multiple directions.

On the one I shot. It didn't matter if it was .45LC, or 410 (00 Buck)

the groups were the same. In my experience with the one Judge (2-1/2" Model) I shot. It was by no means a target gun, or an enjoyable plinker. The accuracy for me (and 2 other people) was little to be excited about on paper.

I'd own one, but only for close quarters self defence (Home, Car, ect...)

Edited August 25, 2009 by TnShooter83

[TripleDigitRide]

Based on the information you've provided, I would purchase a conventional handgun and a shotgun.

[dariks]

I have been thinking of buying a Judge...

This thread did not go like I imagined.

[Hitower]

As far as shooting a 410 slug through this..... Why?? It fires .45LC's!

I just thought it sounded cool.

But Here is my question,

At say around 15 yards, loaded with the .45lc, How inaccurate can it be?

Just a side note: the desert eagle .50 is what i really want, you cant get them for that price range can you?

[Guest donfromtexas]

Don, if I have to shoot someone, I don't want them wounded/pissed off. I want them out of action. That review provides real-world results measured against accepted standards, which (call me crazy) beats subjective opinions based on like or dislike of the platform or cartridge. It rarely pays to disregard factors such as muzzle velocity, which has a direct bearing on terminal energy, regardless of cartridge or caliber. While the review doesn't measure muzzle velocity, it does provide raw data highly indicative of same.

Original Poster wanted help in making a decision. The review provides data rather than opinion. Don't get me wrong, personally I don't want to get shot with a BB gun at three feet, but if I were making such a decision, I'd want all available facts before proceeding.

I am not trying to get off topic here; as I stated earlier, those "standards" are for FBI Law Enforcement personnel that will most likely be shooting through cars and walls and windows, and criminals wearing body armor, which is why they require 12 inches of penetration. They are not designed for citizens personal protection or self defense standards.

Hoodlums and criminals that break into homes and carjack people are usually not wearing body armor or sitting behind the wheel or in the back of a car.

The Judge is a formidable "personal/home defense" weapon. I would recommend it to anyone as such, which is why I responded to this thread.

Not to start a war on balistic standards.

Here are the FBI requirements if interested:

Ordnance / Ballistic Gelatin

Not what a normal person in a self-defense situation will run into.

[Guest HexHead]

Try and catch "Guns & Gear" tonight on the Versus channel. They have a whole segment on the Judge.

I had a really wild thought while I was watching it, it would be awesome if they made a version of that pistol chambered in .45-70.

[TGO David]

Here are the FBI requirements if interested:

Ordnance / Ballistic Gelatin

Not what a normal person in a self-defense situation will run into.

If I throw a punch at you, your natural inclination is going to be to raise your hands to protect your face. If I throw a baseball at your head, same thing. It's a natural flinch instinct.

The same instinct frequently occurs in shootings, as evidenced by the frequent reports of people who have been fatally shot also having bullet wounds to their hands and forearms.

So, yes, this IS what a normal person in a self-defense situation might run into and you're just muddying the water with false information based on personal opinion. The FBI requirements for ballistic gel tests are set the way they are for a reason. That reason is based off of years worth of field data.

I wouldn't discount it quite so quickly.

[Hitower]

Try and catch "Guns & Gear" tonight on the Versus channel. They have a whole segment on the Judge.

I looked at the programming guide and didn't see it. Do you know what time? I would love to watch that, I found it on the sports channel at 9:30 tomorrow but doesn't say what guns it features.

[Guest Muttling]

If I throw a punch at you, your natural inclination is going to be to raise your hands to protect your face. If I throw a baseball at your head, same thing. It's a natural flinch instinct.

The same instinct frequently occurs in shootings, as evidenced by the frequent reports of people who have been fatally shot also having bullet wounds to their hands and forearms.

So, yes, this IS what a normal person in a self-defense situation might run into and you're just muddying the water with false information based on personal opinion. The FBI requirements for ballistic gel tests are set the way they are for a reason. That reason is based off of years worth of field data.

I wouldn't discount it quite so quickly.

Yep, the .410 has the same problem as the .380.

You can get a LOT better hitting handgun with a LOT less bulk.

[Guest HexHead]

I looked at the programming guide and didn't see it. Do you know what time? I would love to watch that, I found it on the sports channel at 9:30 tomorrow but doesn't say what guns it features.

Guns & Gear Hunting TV Show

Also at 7:30am tomorrow on Versus. I'm sure it's the same episode I saw today. Channel on 50 on Comcast.

Edited August 25, 2009 by HexHead

[Guest donfromtexas]

If I throw a punch at you, your natural inclination is going to be to raise your hands to protect your face. If I throw a baseball at your head, same thing. It's a natural flinch instinct.

The same instinct frequently occurs in shootings, as evidenced by the frequent reports of people who have been fatally shot also having bullet wounds to their hands and forearms.

So, yes, this IS what a normal person in a self-defense situation might run into and you're just muddying the water with false information based on personal opinion. The FBI requirements for ballistic gel tests are set the way they are for a reason. That reason is based off of years worth of field data.

I wouldn't discount it quite so quickly.

If I am defending myself against an aggressor then my hands will be holding a weapon, which could possibly be the Judge (which I would still recommend as a viable self-defense weapon), the aggressor that made me pull a gun is most likely holding a weapon also. I do not think they will be holding arms up as blocking material against the bullets flying.

The FBI requirements are not being discounted; they need them. Self defense situations will not require as much penetration. The guy at the end of your hall can easily be handled by 4 pellets of 000 buck hitting him at 1200fps.