Shelby Co. TFA meeting: Let's beat up on the OC guy!

[strickj]

Tactical Fruit Loop?

[TGO David]

Tactical Fruit Loop?

You really should quit pining for him in secret and just visit Camden and offer yourself to him.

[Punisher84]

Tactical Fruit Loop?

Bleh...just threw up.

[Guest canynracer]

You know me Mike,and I tend to agree with you,I have to keep my Glock 27,and my M&P 40 fs coverd most of the time,because my coustermers,might not like the idea,that im working on their property,carring a firearm.but as soon as I leave,my shirt gooes back in my cargo shorts,I get alot of sweat running down my side everday,right down into my holsterr,and onto my gun,which gets a salt build up under the mag release,I really have to clean and oil it really good on my day off,I rotate between 3 fiferent holsters,for each gun,all bought used on ebay,just to work in,so they can get a chance to dry out from the sweat.They are my work guns and holsters.But when im off work,thats a different story,I have thousands of dollars of holsters,including a dozen Milt sparks,and other top holster makers,and thousands of dollars of 1911's,with custom finish wood grips.I wore some faded Geans,nice pull-overshirt,short sleave,tucked in,with a Cordovan Milt Sparks belt,with a Cordovan Milt Sparks Axiom Holster for 5 inch 1911's,With Black shark skin trim,witha stainless steel dual tone Taurus PT 1911,with $100 Buck-eye Burl Grips on it made by Sarges Grips,with my snake skin cowboy boots,I guess some of you call this a Barbcue holster and gun...But I believe I have the right To buy,and show my nice rig off while Im out taking care of Bussiness.I went into Bush's Juelery store in Hendersonville,The tracktor supply store,the Bank of Hendersonville,Value Vision Glases in Rivergate,Guns and Leather in Grreenbair,and Philips,

Gun store in Goodletsville,And of course Walmart and Sams in Rivergate,all today.with no problems.I carry concealed most of the time,but I think it does the sheeple good to see some of us open carring sometimes,and seing that we are just like them and not out to murder them and there children,that we have familys and childrern too and grand children for some of us .. of yeah,a couple of stop and rob stores too (Markets) for some bottled water.Most of my holsters are IWB,when open carring,i feel safer, being most of the gun is inside my pants and closer to my body,with my belt tightly drawn across it,than when I open carry with a OWB belt hoster,im allways more aware whos close to me and I keep my arm over it,as much as possible to protect it....just a couple of night s ago I was comming out of Walmat in Hendersonville,with my S&W M&P 40fs straped on my hip,in a Desantis Thumb Break holster OWB,wearing my workclothes,Cargo shorts,tank top,work boots,and as I walked out the door there on a police horse sat a Hendersonville Cop,With a Married couple with there children petting the horse,He noticed my gun as son as I walked out the door,I walked over to check out the horse,and we had a nice conversation about Glock,and M&P handguns for Police and Cilviain carry after the other people had walked off and we were alone,a very nice officer.I have had only 1 negitive experence when open carring,and I refused to let that stop me from my right to do so.If im right there are BOUT 40 OPEN CARRY states,some states,like New Hamshire,I think you can open carry with out a permit,if you want to conceal carry you have to get a permit,it makes it seam to me that they think its skeaky to carry concealed,thats why you have to get a permit to do so..If you open carry,your not trying to be sneaky or hide anything.Believe me ive been a member of this fourm long enough to know that people are either on one side or the other when it comes to conceal carry,or open carry,its like your either the anti gun crouwd or the NRA, Day or night.I believe a person should carry how ever they feel comftrable doing.I believe theres a time and place for both everyday,oh yeah I allmost forgot,I ate supper at the Texas Roadhouse in Hendersonville,and yess open carring...I think if you dress nice,(not like a thug,with your pants falling off your buttocks)and act like a adult with good sence,you will have no problems,I believe that people with Carry permits are the most law abbiding people that are on the streets,and I would trust them anytime over JoeQ. Public,When I left the restraunt I was sober 100%, what about all the Joe Q. Public's that had 5 or 6 drinks with there food??how many did they have on the way there, but its ok for them to leave in a 3000 pound deadly weapon( a car),and mabe kill me or you on the way home...Mike I have a Black hawk Serpra holster for my G27 and my M&P,I dont use the paddle,I run my belt through them,I They are some of my work holsters.I just think IMO that the conceal carry only group,should lighten up on thiose of us who chose to open carry sometimes..because just between you and me,I believe its because they dont have the stones to do it themeselves, so they dont want anyone else to do it.The guys who carry these light weight alium 3 inch 1911's,that worry about printing in a open carry state,and wine about it being uncontroble,and heavy,(the holster rubs my side,or my leg)Its not for everyone.I believe a real man shouildnt have any problem carrying a full sizs 5 inch 1911 with atleast 1 full spare mag,flashlight,knife,I carry 12 pounds of stuff everyday,a Berretta Tomcat 32 cal in my right front pocket as a backup,in a Don Hume leather pocket holster.While carrying all this proudly,I do manual labour in the hot sun.Im the guy you see running up and down the road pulling a trailer,carring comercial 0 turn Mowers,with 2 or 3 weed eaters,gas containers,push mowers, blowers.A small bisuniess, but my own,I work hard for my money,and I dont mind spending my money on nice guns,and leather.Before you all take me out and find find a tree to hang me in,first of all, I love all you guys and gals,and have the utmost respect for all of you, I have learned alot from all of you since I started comming here back at the first of the year and am gratefull to all of you for your addvice and help,im not knocking anyone,just saying that in general that we are all different and should be able to be different without being hasseled or looked down on,on how we choose to carry,im sorry for being all over the place in this post..If I didnt live so far from you Mike Id go out to eat open carring with you anywere,and that goes to anyone in Hendersonville,or the Nashville area,Id be glad to get a open carry group to eat at different restaurants around town,that support open carry to show the public,what we are all about,if interested,just send me a priviate message....Keep open carrying Mike and stay safe,because I will also. As usaul Im sorrry for my spelling,or lack of,I did finish High school,but I never cared for spelling,...wish I had now :(Thanks for letting me ramble..

MY GAWD man, take a breath!!!! forget the spelling...how bout a paragraph! Oh, that really looong button on the bottom of yer keyboard is a spacebar...try it!

[memphismason]

MY GAWD man, take a breath!!!! forget the spelling...how bout a paragraph! Oh, that really looong button on the bottom of yer keyboard is a spacebar...try it!

I love paragraphs

[Guest TN_Mike]

Tactical Fruit Loop?

Now I get the Tactical Fruit-loop reference! We had this guy as a speaker last year at a TFA meeting......yes...yes...Tactical Fruit-loop indeed!

[Guest db99wj]

You know me Mike,and I tend to agree with you,I have to keep my Glock 27,and my M&P 40 fs coverd most of the time,because my coustermers,might not like the idea,that im working on their property,carring a firearm.but as soon as I leave,my shirt gooes back in my cargo shorts,I get alot of sweat running down my side everday,right down into my holsterr,and onto my gun,which gets a salt build up under the mag release,I really have to clean and oil it really good on my day off,I rotate between 3 fiferent holsters,for each gun,all bought used on ebay,just to work in,so they can get a chance to dry out from the sweat.They are my work guns and holsters.But when im off work,thats a different story,I have thousands of dollars of holsters,including a dozen Milt sparks,and other top holster makers,and thousands of dollars of 1911's,with custom finish wood grips.I wore some faded Geans,nice pull-overshirt,short sleave,tucked in,with a Cordovan Milt Sparks belt,with a Cordovan Milt Sparks Axiom Holster for 5 inch 1911's,With Black shark skin trim,witha stainless steel dual tone Taurus PT 1911,with $100 Buck-eye Burl Grips on it made by Sarges Grips,with my snake skin cowboy boots,I guess some of you call this a Barbcue holster and gun...But I believe I have the right To buy,and show my nice rig off while Im out taking care of Bussiness.I went into Bush's Juelery store in Hendersonville,The tracktor supply store,the Bank of Hendersonville,Value Vision Glases in Rivergate,Guns and Leather in Grreenbair,and Philips,

Gun store in Goodletsville,And of course Walmart and Sams in Rivergate,all today.with no problems.I carry concealed most of the time,but I think it does the sheeple good to see some of us open carring sometimes,and seing that we are just like them and not out to murder them and there children,that we have familys and childrern too and grand children for some of us .. of yeah,a couple of stop and rob stores too (Markets) for some bottled water.Most of my holsters are IWB,when open carring,i feel safer, being most of the gun is inside my pants and closer to my body,with my belt tightly drawn across it,than when I open carry with a OWB belt hoster,im allways more aware whos close to me and I keep my arm over it,as much as possible to protect it....just a couple of night s ago I was comming out of Walmat in Hendersonville,with my S&W M&P 40fs straped on my hip,in a Desantis Thumb Break holster OWB,wearing my workclothes,Cargo shorts,tank top,work boots,and as I walked out the door there on a police horse sat a Hendersonville Cop,With a Married couple with there children petting the horse,He noticed my gun as son as I walked out the door,I walked over to check out the horse,and we had a nice conversation about Glock,and M&P handguns for Police and Cilviain carry after the other people had walked off and we were alone,a very nice officer.I have had only 1 negitive experence when open carring,and I refused to let that stop me from my right to do so.If im right there are BOUT 40 OPEN CARRY states,some states,like New Hamshire,I think you can open carry with out a permit,if you want to conceal carry you have to get a permit,it makes it seam to me that they think its skeaky to carry concealed,thats why you have to get a permit to do so..If you open carry,your not trying to be sneaky or hide anything.Believe me ive been a member of this fourm long enough to know that people are either on one side or the other when it comes to conceal carry,or open carry,its like your either the anti gun crouwd or the NRA, Day or night.I believe a person should carry how ever they feel comftrable doing.I believe theres a time and place for both everyday,oh yeah I allmost forgot,I ate supper at the Texas Roadhouse in Hendersonville,and yess open carring...I think if you dress nice,(not like a thug,with your pants falling off your buttocks)and act like a adult with good sence,you will have no problems,I believe that people with Carry permits are the most law abbiding people that are on the streets,and I would trust them anytime over JoeQ. Public,When I left the restraunt I was sober 100%, what about all the Joe Q. Public's that had 5 or 6 drinks with there food??how many did they have on the way there, but its ok for them to leave in a 3000 pound deadly weapon( a car),and mabe kill me or you on the way home...Mike I have a Black hawk Serpra holster for my G27 and my M&P,I dont use the paddle,I run my belt through them,I They are some of my work holsters.I just think IMO that the conceal carry only group,should lighten up on thiose of us who chose to open carry sometimes..because just between you and me,I believe its because they dont have the stones to do it themeselves, so they dont want anyone else to do it.The guys who carry these light weight alium 3 inch 1911's,that worry about printing in a open carry state,and wine about it being uncontroble,and heavy,(the holster rubs my side,or my leg)Its not for everyone.I believe a real man shouildnt have any problem carrying a full sizs 5 inch 1911 with atleast 1 full spare mag,flashlight,knife,I carry 12 pounds of stuff everyday,a Berretta Tomcat 32 cal in my right front pocket as a backup,in a Don Hume leather pocket holster.While carrying all this proudly,I do manual labour in the hot sun.Im the guy you see running up and down the road pulling a trailer,carring comercial 0 turn Mowers,with 2 or 3 weed eaters,gas containers,push mowers, blowers.A small bisuniess, but my own,I work hard for my money,and I dont mind spending my money on nice guns,and leather.Before you all take me out and find find a tree to hang me in,first of all, I love all you guys and gals,and have the utmost respect for all of you, I have learned alot from all of you since I started comming here back at the first of the year and am gratefull to all of you for your addvice and help,im not knocking anyone,just saying that in general that we are all different and should be able to be different without being hasseled or looked down on,on how we choose to carry,im sorry for being all over the place in this post..If I didnt live so far from you Mike Id go out to eat open carring with you anywere,and that goes to anyone in Hendersonville,or the Nashville area,Id be glad to get a open carry group to eat at different restaurants around town,that support open carry to show the public,what we are all about,if interested,just send me a priviate message....Keep open carrying Mike and stay safe,because I will also. As usaul Im sorrry for my spelling,or lack of,I did finish High school,but I never cared for spelling,...wish I had now :(Thanks for letting me ramble..

I saw a guy that fits your description over by my house, mowing a lawn, open carrying a 1911, almost stopped, but had to be somewhere.

Oh, and if you get Mozilla Firefox on your computer, it will put a red underline on words you misspell. It will not help you with the "Enter" key for a new paragraph!

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

OK, I'm not hip on all the acronyms

What is FDE?

Full Disk Encryption

FedEx ?

Florida Department of Education

Fuzzy Duck Explorer

They kick the **** out of your breakfast and turn your milk FDE. Heck yeah!

Edited August 26, 2009 by AmericanWorkMule

[Guest Ggun]

OK, I'm not hip on all the acronyms

What is FDE?

Full Disk Encryption

FedEx ?

Florida Department of Education

Fuzzy Duck Explorer

The new color for EBRs:

FDE: Flat Dark Earth

[Guest db99wj]

OK, I'm not hip on all the acronyms

What is FDE?

Full Disk Encryption

FedEx ?

Florida Department of Education

Fuzzy Duck Explorer

Internet newb.....

Thanks for asking, I had no idea either!

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

I'll stick to Walnut

The new color for EBRs:

FDE: Flat Dark Earth

[Guest crotalus01]

I strongly disagree. If you are relying on luck to survive then the ods are you will not. When it comes to a man's life or death, I much rather bet on skill than on luck. If you run into that hardcore, badass killer you had better be able to rise beyond the level of the hardcore badassness of your assailent if you plan to see your family again.

Granted, a little luck never hurt anything but it will take training to survive an armed, violent encounter. According to the resulting investigation, the business owner that called 911 down in McMinn County (I believe) saying he had a subject at gunpoint in his store only to have the LEOs arrive to find him laying lifeless on the floor of his business obviously was not well trained and probably was relying on a little luck to get him through like other's who's stories have appeared in the Armed Citizen section of the NRA mags. Andrew Patti survived a near miss with a pair of cold blooded killers not because he was lucky but because he had trained for a violent encounter and how to react. Luck may play a very small part in your survival but I would submit that you would be far better off with relying on good, solid training to create your own luck.

I understand the point you make, and I do train for violent encounters, unarmed vs armed encounters etc, and I believe everyone who carries should train as much as possible.

My point was if you run into a criminal that knows you are armed, and knows you will meet force with force, well...lets just say you are having a bad day because that type of criminal seems to be few and far between outside of LEO encounters.

Bottom line, I do not rely on luck to survive a life threatening criminal encounter, I rely on shot placement (training).

[Guest TN_Mike]

For those of you who like to say that the criminal will just shoot you if you open carry, read the following article.

As I have said, most people, even criminals don't notice an open carrier.

Guns near Obama fuel 'open-carry' debate - Life- msnbc.com

By Mike Stuckey

Senior news editor

msnbc.com

updated 6:49 p.m. ET, Tues., Aug 25, 2009

Gun owners may be arguing among themselves and with gun-control activists about it, but for Mustapha Kassou, there’s no debate over the “open-carry” movement, which created a furor this month when pistol- and rifle-packing citizens showed up near several public appearances by President Barack Obama.

Kassou was working the cash register in the Richmond, Va., market he owns on July 11 when a gunman stormed the store with robbery on his mind. In an incident captured on surveillance video, the bandit ordered the eight customers to the floor and pumped two bullets from his snub-nosed pistol into Kassou, who fell to the floor behind the counter.

As the store’s patrons prayed and screamed, one of them drew a .45-caliber revolver from a holster in plain view on his hip and ordered the robber to drop his gun. In the shootout and hand-to-hand struggle that followed, the customer managed to wound the robber three times and prevent him from shooting anyone else. By the time police responded to a 911 call, the robber lay mortally wounded in a pool of blood; he died three days later in a hospital.

“Thank God he had his gun that day,” Kassou said of the man with the .45, a friend of his and a member of the loosely organized open-carry movement who has declined to be publicly identified and eschewed any notion that he was a hero.

“He saved many lives that day,” Kassou told msnbc.com in a telephone interview. “If it wasn’t for him, probably I would not be here.”

Kassou and other open-carry advocates say the case is an example that supports their notion that openly armed citizens can deter and stop crime effectively.

Reason to cringe

While the outcome of the gunfight at Kassou’s Golden Food Market is perhaps the best publicity the open-carry movement could hope for, some in its ranks are cringing at the far greater coverage given to the recent open-carrying activities of others. Outside presidential town hall meetings from New Hampshire to Arizona, these gun owners have worn their loaded revolvers and semiautomatic pistols for all the world to see. One man slung a military-style AR-15 rifle over his shoulder.

One of the biggest attention-getters was William Kostric, who strapped a 9 mm Smith & Wesson in a SWAT-style leg holster and wore it to Obama’s Aug. 11 town hall meeting on health care in Portsmouth, N.H. “I wanted people to remember the rights that we have and how quickly we’re losing them in this country,” he told msnbc-tv's Chris Matthews.

The White House, hoping to allay fears of a security threat, has said that people are entitled to carry weapons outside such events if local laws allow it. "Those laws don't change when the president comes to your state or locality," spokesman Robert Gibbs said.

The incidents have stirred fear and anger among some Americans, and contempt from gun-rights activists for what they see as overreaction and unfair spin by the national media. They have also exposed a subtlety and nuance in America’s ongoing debate over firearms that are often lost in the predictable, shrill arguments between gun-control advocates and Second Amendment defenders.

As much as any issue, open carry reveals divisions within the gun-rights community, often characterized by gun-control advocates as a monolithic force that is led in lock-step by the powerful and well-heeled National Rifle Association. But you won’t find the NRA weighing in on this issue; the 4-million-member group did not respond to msnbc.com’s requests for an interview.

“They’re obviously avoiding taking a stand on this one,” said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, the nationwide advocacy group for “sensible” gun laws. “It’s a no-win for them.” If NRA officials criticize those who open-carry near Obama events, they run the risk of irritating their “rabid membership,” Helmke said. If they support the behavior, “they’re going to lose all credibility not only with the public but with the elected officials who usually vote their way.”

Other gun-rights groups, however, have not shied away, offering a range of reaction.

'It's their right'

“We do applaud them for being a positive example of responsible gun owners,” said John Velleco, director of federal affairs for the Gun Owners of America, probably the loudest voice of support for those who have displayed firearms near Obama events. “We’re not calling for people to do that but if they’re doing so legally it’s their right to do it,” said Velleco, who has said he would have no concerns over thousands of citizens openly carrying firearms to an event at which the president was speaking.

But Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, another staunch defender of gun rights, was not applauding. Gottlieb said the open carrying of firearms near presidential town hall meetings on health care “is not the time or the place for it. I’m not for disallowing them to do so, I just don’t think it’s politically intelligent. … I would like to see gun owners think twice before they go to a rally like that with a firearm strapped on. It doesn’t necessarily put our best face forward.”

John Pierce, co-founder of OpenCarry.org, a social-networking Web site for gun owners that catalogs weapons laws across the nation and chronicles efforts to loosen and remove restrictions against the public carrying of firearms, praised the low-key response of the White House and the Secret Service to the incidents. But he also worried a bit about the actions of those who wear guns near presidential venues.

A 'very mixed message'

“I absolutely believe open carry should be legal anywhere that a citizen can legally be,” he explained. “Having said that, one of the things that I find a little bit less than perfect about the recent situation is not the fact that citizens were open-carrying, but rather that they were there as a form of open conduct to disagree with a political position that the president has taken, whether it’s about health care or the economy.” Doing so with a gun strapped on sends a “very mixed message,” said Pierce.

Velleco of Gun Owners of America dismissed that. It “might be a different story” if the town hall open-carry incidents were organized. “You have to remember, this is a leaderless action,” he said. “I wouldn’t call it a movement. I don’t know of anyone who is coordinating people to show up at these events armed. … Gun Owners of America would not call for an armed rally. These people are doing it on their own.”

'Setting the table'

But some gun-control activists said they see a clear link between the recent open-carrying actions and past campaigns by the NRA and other groups.

“Leading into the election last year, the NRA spent something like $15 million saying if Obama is elected he’ll take your guns away,” said Helmke of the Brady Campaign. “That whole lead-in from last year is really kind of setting the table for some of what we’re seeing with this open carry at Obama events.

“When you’re seeing some of the NRA language from the ads last year being parroted by some of … the picketers and protesters, you start realizing there’s consequences to what they’re saying.”

Jim Kessler of Third Way, the successor organization to the gun-control group Americans for Gun Safety, said openly carrying firearms near the town halls is the sort of thing done by “a very tiny faction of the extreme right wing that’s a real paranoid conspiracy theorist group.”

While he does not believe the NRA is behind the open-carrying, he said it could work to the gun group’s advantage. “I think they (NRA leaders) think these people are whack jobs, to be honest with you, but they love a fight. What the NRA is interested in the most is raising money and increasing membership. They love having Obama as president. It means their membership is going to go up.”

An unseemly image

The “whack job” image is a big concern to Gottlieb of the Second Amendment Foundation. He does not like provocative open-carry actions just as “I don’t like gun owners running around with the T-shirts saying, ‘Kill Them All and Let God Sort Them Out.’ If someone from the media is at a gun show, that’s the kind of person they’re going to put on TV.”

And that collides harshly with the image that Pierce and others are trying to craft for the open-carry movement, which he said is “normal law-abiding citizens being able to exercise their rights as they go about their everyday lives.”

In rural Virginia, where he grew up, “every corner had a rifle or a shotgun in it,” Pierce said. “It was simply a part of life. Everybody hunted. Firearms were just a part of life, a noncontroversial part of life.” He’d like all Americans to feel the same and sees the work of OpenCarry.org as largely educational.

One positive of the current controversy, Pierce said, “is that it does make open-carry very visible. A lot of people living in New York, New Jersey, Maryland, the Northeast, basically … when they see this, it’s a real wake-up call that there are rights that are exercised in the rest of the country that are so far outside their experience. It makes people begin to wonder about the limits that laws in their states have placed on their rights.

“Open-carry IS the Second Amendment,” Pierce said. “If you believe in the Second Amendment, you believe in open carry.”

A call for more laws

But the Brady Campaign’s Helmke has a different take. “They’re showing the rest of the country how weak our gun laws are,” he said. “When you open-carry, you don’t have a permit, no one has checked you out, you don’t have to go through any training in a lot of places. You can carry a .50-caliber sniper rifle down the street. When folks see that, then maybe they’ll wake up to the fact that we really don’t have many laws on the books with regard to guns.”

Third Way’s Kessler said that despite last year’s landmark Heller ruling by the Supreme Court that upheld individual rights to own guns, “There is no constitutional right to carry a firearm. This is not even close on the constitutional scale — I have a right to carry a firearm wherever I go — it’s just not.”

Kessler and Helmke caution that gun-rights advocates, who have enjoyed years of legislative and legal success on issues from relaxed concealed-carry laws to the expiration of the 1994 federal assault-rifle ban, could push too far.

They cite the Senate’s failure, albeit by a narrow margin, in July to pass an amendment that would have made a concealed-weapon permit from any state valid in all.

“I think the gun lobby is starting to lose its clout,” Helmke said.

As for open-carry, which, although at least tacitly supported by most in the gun-rights community is still criticized by many as less tactically shrewd than concealed-carry, Kessler said, “You have to decide what kind of society you want to live in. Do you want to live in a society where the person next to you is openly carrying a firearm? Does that make you happy? I think for most people it disturbs them. It would for me.”

It shouldn’t, said Velleco of Gun Owners of America. “These people, if anything, are contributing to public safety, not endangering it. … Lawful gun owners use firearms over a million times a year successfully in self-defense. And they make our streets and neighborhoods safer than they would be otherwise. That’s what people don’t understand.”

Kassou, who has recovered from his wounds and returned to work in his Virginia store, said his attitude has changed. “Nobody likes to carry a gun,” he said, and before he was shot he didn’t. “We’re not here in a war zone, we’re just trying to make a living, but sometimes you have to defend yourself.”

So now Kassou straps a gun on each day when he heads for his market. Does he wear it openly, as lawful firearms owners are allowed to do in Virginia?

“Yes sir, I do.”

[Paletiger13]

I too OC, scenario 1,000,000 bad guy thinks your an off duty police officer and rethinks the situation. And before anybody says I'm a wanna be LEO, No thanks. LEO's are way underpaid for their risks and deserve more respect than given(except for the tard at TFA meeting)

I actually OC and CC at times. Depends on my environment. I'm a small framed person, so even when I CC it looks odd with a Walther growth sticking from my side.

I'm there with ya Mike.

[Guest Phantom6]

I understand the point you make, and I do train for violent encounters, unarmed vs armed encounters etc, and I believe everyone who carries should train as much as possible.

Good. Agreed. If it's good training, it doesn't matter where they get it as long as

1. they get it and
   
2. they continue on their own to go to the range and run drills on a regular basis to sharpen their skills.
   

If folks are going to carry a gun OC or not, they damned well need to be prepared to do so without considering luck as a part of the equation.

My point was if you run into a criminal that knows you are armed, and knows you will meet force with force, well...lets just say you are having a bad day because that type of criminal seems to be few and far between outside of LEO encounters.

I'll have to respectively disagree with you on that point. Happens all the time. It's called Home Invasion. In the South, most homes have firearms in them and criminals know or should know that there is a possibility of an armed confrontation and they come prepared to deal with the occupants of the home. That is one of the things that makes a home invasion such a frightening event. Set up a Google Alert on the term "Home Invasion" and watch the long list of unique returns literally roll in every day. On almost a near weekly basis we have someone coming into our shop saying they were a victim of a home invasion and they want a gun and/or they want to sign up for our Personal Protection in the Home, Defensive Pistol or Defensive Shotgun classes.

Bottom line, I do not rely on luck to survive a life threatening criminal encounter, I rely on shot placement (training).

Good on you. And by the way, if I seemed to jump at you on the "luck" point I apologize. That was not my intention. I just don't like the term. To the rest of you, I apologize for taking the thread off course but when I hear the term "luck" used in conjunction with an armed encounter it just goes all over me because unfortunately so many permit holders, whether they carry openly or concealed (vectoring back on course here ), do rely on just that- dumb luck.

[Guest bnoland]

I am new here and I didnt read all of this thread but I will post my thoughts. First to let you know where I am coming from I have had a carry permit since 2005 and have been a LEO for almost a year now. With that being said I know that open carry in TN is legal.. however, many of the people I work along side DO NOT know this! I was shocked! That is their problem when they lock someone up for open carry when it is legal. As far as carrying in the open, I dont recommend it from a personal and professional stand point. I personally have never carried openly because it ruins the element of suprise. They already know what you have and where you have it before you even know he/she is up to no good. Now I am sure some will say but if they see you have a gun they wont try you.. not always so. Depending on your holster and your awarness of your surroundings they will just disarm you and take what they want ether way. I know none of us want to think that will happen to us and it may not but most of us will never need a gun at all but we carry one just in case. As far as my job, if you have a weapon on you permit or not it will be taken and locked in my trunk until my dealing with you are done and that is completely legal. The only diffrence is if you do not have a permit you will go to jail.

[CSS Hunley]

As far as my job, if you have a weapon on you permit or not it will be taken and locked in my trunk until my dealing with you are done and that is completely legal. The only diffrence is if you do not have a permit you will go to jail.

Are you saying that if you stop someone for a traffic violation, and they present their HCP along with their DL, that you would disarm them for the duration of the stop?

The two times that I have been pulled over by MPD, once for a broken windshield and once for going 31 in a 25 , the officers asked me where the weapon was (on my right hip) and told me to leave it there. They were very polite and didn't seem concerned about it.

[Fallguy]

Although the law allowing LEOs disarm HCP holders only says if the officer feels it is needed for the safety of the LEO, permit holder or others some LEOs choose to disarm everyone, all the time regardless.

I think many more choose to just have the permit holder leave the handgun where it is.

Of course that is if you have informed the officer in the first place even.

[Guest crotalus01]

As far as my job, if you have a weapon on you permit or not it will be taken and locked in my trunk until my dealing with you are done and that is completely legal. The only diffrence is if you do not have a permit you will go to jail.

First I will say thank you for your willingness to be a cop in this crime infested hole of a city - you guys dont get nearly enough respect or money for what you do on a daily basis.

However, the above quote is very troubling to me. The law allows you to disarm a legal permit holder for the safety of the officer, the holder, or others if I recall correctly.

I carry a Glock 99% of the time, in a Fobus retention holster. I TRAIN with the Glock. The Glock has no external safety. The LAST thing I want is for someone who does not train with a gun that has no external safety is to disarm me for no good reason (sorry, but as I have an HCP I am a good guy and there is no reason to disarm me that I can think of). Too many bad things could result from that situation - ever see the video of the DEA guy demoing to a class how he is the only one in here competent enuff to handle dis Glock foty??

I also CC a .38 BUG in the small of my back, so unless you pull me out of the car and search me (which would be a violation of my rights once I presented my HCP to you, assuming a routine traffic stop) I am still going to be armed. If a cop disarmed my OC weapon for no good reason citing some like "officer safety", I damn sure wouldnt be volunteering info on my CC BUG:rolleyes:

I understand you guys have a dangerous job, but give the HCP holders a friggin break - we might just be backup for you one day...

[deerslayer]

and we can probably outshoot you...

[Guest TN_Mike]

As far as my job, if you have a weapon on you permit or not it will be taken and locked in my trunk until my dealing with you are done and that is completely legal. The only diffrence is if you do not have a permit you will go to jail.

And that right there is why the Memphis PD is one of the lest respected Police Departments in the country.

Sorry my friend, I thank you for your willingness to do that job in that city as it needs it but, you are part of the problem. If I have gone through the training required by the law, freely given my fingerprints to the state along with $115 of my hard earned money, passed the background check, waited the unbelievable 45 to 90 days (I got my permit in Alabama when I lived there in less than an hour, don't tell me Tennessee is unable to do the background check in the same amount of time as ala-friggin-bama) and I have NO CRIMINAL RECORD AT ALL, then there is absolutely no reason for you to disarm me. I am no more of a threat to you than one of your fellow officers. In fact, in Memphis I am LESS of a threat to you than one of your fellow officers considering how many of them have been arrested and sent to prison for such offenses as drug dealing, trafficking, robbery, murder and a myriad of other felonies. (there in lies another big reason that the MPD has so little respect by the citizens)

We are not your enemies. As someone else already said, we may just be there to save your butt one day. But not if you disarm me for something stupid like a burned out break light. If you treat me like a hardened criminal for something as minor as a traffic violation and disarm me because you feel "threatened" by a genuine, card carrying good guy, then you don't deserve my respect.

[Guest canynracer]

OK guys, dont beat him up too bad, he is still a rookie...rookies tend to be a little more by the book, and strict out of the gate.

The more seasoned officers will help train and guide him.

Not to mention Shelby County has more permit holders than anywhere in the state, he will get VERY tired of disarming every GOOD guy he pulls over...

[Guest Ggun]

First I will say thank you for your willingness to be a cop in this crime infested hole of a city - you guys dont get nearly enough respect or money for what you do on a daily basis.

However, the above quote is very troubling to me. The law allows you to disarm a legal permit holder for the safety of the officer, the holder, or others if I recall correctly.

I carry a Glock 99% of the time, in a Fobus retention holster. I TRAIN with the Glock. The Glock has no external safety. The LAST thing I want is for someone who does not train with a gun that has no external safety is to disarm me for no good reason (sorry, but as I have an HCP I am a good guy and there is no reason to disarm me that I can think of). Too many bad things could result from that situation - ever see the video of the DEA guy demoing to a class how he is the only one in here competent enuff to handle dis Glock foty??

I also CC a .38 BUG in the small of my back, so unless you pull me out of the car and search me (which would be a violation of my rights once I presented my HCP to you, assuming a routine traffic stop) I am still going to be armed. If a cop disarmed my OC weapon for no good reason citing some like "officer safety", I damn sure wouldnt be volunteering info on my CC BUG:rolleyes:

I understand you guys have a dangerous job, but give the HCP holders a friggin break - we might just be backup for you one day...

If the officer asks you to disarm, you are in violation of the law to withhold your BUG. That could be the end of your carry days.

[Guest crotalus01]

Well, he did not say he was going to ASK me to disarm, he said he was going to disarm me. Big difference to me. If he asked me to remove my firearm, I would remove all of them. If he was a dick and took my firearm, I would simply not inform him of my BUG unless he asked - then I would begrudgingly tell him since it is the law.

[Punisher84]

As far as my job, if you have a weapon on you permit or not it will be taken and locked in my trunk until my dealing with you are done and that is completely legal. The only diffrence is if you do not have a permit you will go to jail.

LOL depending on what precinct you work out of and who your CO is I'm surprised you haven't been squared away on that yet.

Just friendly advice, but try and remember HCP holders aren't the enemy and the more you go messing with guns the more likely you are to have an ND. Leave it where it is and don't buy the hype some of the folks teach you in the academy.

Your trainer wasn't the girl that just shot the recruit was she? If so I guess I'd be skittish too lol