.30-06 ammo.....good as gold?

[Guest 70below]

When the final shipment of CMP greek 30-06 dries up, whats going to happen to ammo prices? Obviously without a reasonably priced source for surplus ammo, prices will head up, and with all the garands, 1903A3's and M1917's out there......what will become a reasonable price?

It already shocks me what black tip AP ammo goes for.....I used to plink that stuff away at stumps and car hoods when it was a dime a dozen.

Surely one of the vendors like S&B, Prvi Partizan, or Wolf will step up with a reasonable bulk .30-06 suitable for Garands......but what? $14 a box? More?

7.62x51 is now running .50 to .75 a round for surplus.....and some of it is still available......what will '06 go to with no more available??

EDIT: Mods.....just occurred to me I posted this in C&R.....feel free to move to Ammo.

[hkusp40cal]

Federal makes the american eagle branded 30-06 for the M1 garand and Hornady makes the m1 garand match ammo. Those are the only 2 producers that I am aware of at this time.

[nightrunner]

do garands take a special kind of 30-06 ammo?

[Guest 70below]

Its not so much that its special......but you don't want to use some of the higher pressure hunting ammo in a Garand as its not recommended.

I guess my point was more that with surplus running dry, and the sheer amount of Garands/1903's/1917's out there......if we have to turn to factory ammo, it could get pricey!

[Guest HexHead]

do garands take a special kind of 30-06 ammo?

Yes and no. First of all, AFAIK, the 1903s and 1917 don't need the surplus ammo like the Garands do. Garands need to use surplus M2 Ball ammo which has a slower burning powder than modern commercial loads. Using modern commercial ammo in an "unmodified" Garand can damage the gas system.

You can get an aftermarket adjustable gas nut that will allow you to use commercial ammo in it, or reload your own with the proper burning powder. Hornady makes a specialty match grade Garand ammo, but it's like $40/ box.

[nightrunner]

ah, thanks for the info

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Garands need to use surplus M2 Ball ammo which has a slower burning powder than modern commercial loads.

You have that backwords my friend.. Garands and M1As need faster burning powder to keep from bending the op rod or breaking the bolt.

Never use any powder that has a burn rate slower that IMR4064.

[DaveTN]

I have a bunch from CMP, but here are my thoughts on it.

Ammo prices are up right now for 3 reasons.

1. The war

2. The price of copper

3. Obama.

Lake City is running full bore and can’t maintain supply to the military, so private companies are being tapped for military ammo. It’s probably a more profitable market for them than the civilian market.

When the war ends the demand will drop. ATK is operating Lake City under contract. They are a private business, so when the demand drops I imagine they will make ammo for the public. The private companies will also try to maintain production; that should result in lower prices.

The price of copper is being driven by the big boom in manufacturing and housing in China. Who knows which way that will go. If our manufacturing picks back up prices may drop. If we continue to send our company’s overseas prices will increase.

The election of Obama caused a knee jerk reaction in the market in both guns and ammo. That seems to be over as we see guns prices dropping back to where they were. Who knows what he has up his sleeve for the next big scare. But we do that to ourselves and it has nothing to do with market or regulations.

As far as the 30-06 specifically; if there is a market there will be ammo. 30-06 hunting is a huge market, as is the market for Garand ammo. Any manufacture that sees a market can produce ammo that is safe for the Garand.

As to the questions about Garand ammo…

According to Remington their production powders burn to slow for the Garand, causing increased pressures at the gas port that can damage the action.

A more common and more dangerous problem is a slam fire or firing out of battery. This can be caused by using too soft a primer or the primer not being seated fully.

Also there are 7.62 NATO Garands (the Navy did it) and conversions are available. Although that doesn’t help the ammo price problem; they will be available as long as the 7.62 NATO round is in use.

Edited August 23, 2009 by DaveTN

[Guest HexHead]

You have that backwords my friend.. Garands and M1As need faster burning powder to keep from bending the op rod or breaking the bolt.

Never use any powder that has a burn rate slower that IMR4064.

Yeah, I knew it was faster or slower, just not whatever they put in commercial ammo these days.

[Guest 70below]

I have a bunch from CMP, but here are my thoughts on it.

Ammo prices are up right now for 3 reasons.

1. The war

2. The price of copper

3. Obama.

Lake City is running full bore and can’t maintain supply to the military, so private companies are being tapped for military ammo. It’s probably a more profitable market for them than the civilian market.

When the war ends the demand will drop. ATK is operating Lake City under contract. They are a private business, so when the demand drops I imagine they will make ammo for the public. The private companies will also try to maintain production; that should result in lower prices.

The price of copper is being driven by the big boom in manufacturing and housing in China. Who knows which way that will go. If our manufacturing picks back up prices may drop. If we continue to send our company’s overseas prices will increase.

The election of Obama caused a knee jerk reaction in the market in both guns and ammo. That seems to be over as we see guns prices dropping back to where they were. Who knows what he has up his sleeve for the next big scare. But we do that to ourselves and it has nothing to do with market or regulations.

As far as the 30-06 specifically; if there is a market there will be ammo. 30-06 hunting is a huge market, as is the market for Garand ammo. Any manufacture that sees a market can produce ammo that is safe for the Garand.

As to the questions about Garand ammo…

According to Remington their production powders burn to slow for the Garand, causing increased pressures at the gas port that can damage the action.

A more common and more dangerous problem is a slam fire or firing out of battery. This can be caused by using too soft a primer or the primer not being seated fully.

Also there are 7.62 NATO Garands (the Navy did it) and conversions are available. Although that doesn’t help the ammo price problem; they will be available as long as the 7.62 NATO round is in use.

I agree with what your saying Dave......but I don't think that the end of the war and/or dropping metals prices are going to cause ammo prices to fall much if at all.

Just looking at currently available ammo production in .30-06, there isn't really anything consistently below $14 a box, and most is upwards of $18-20 a box and up. Reloading may become more key to those who shoot a lot, but I doubt we'll see commercial production cheaper than $12-15 a box.

Ammo has been steadily climbing, and though its taken bigger leaps in the last couple years, now that they've seen what we'll pay, they'll not be incentive to lower prices barring a crashing demand.

[Guest HexHead]

now that they've seen what we'll pay, they'll not be incentive to lower prices barring a crashing demand.

That about sums it up.

[DaveTN]

I agree with what your saying Dave......but I don't think that the end of the war and/or dropping metals prices are going to cause ammo prices to fall much if at all.

Just looking at currently available ammo production in .30-06, there isn't really anything consistently below $14 a box, and most is upwards of $18-20 a box and up. Reloading may become more key to those who shoot a lot, but I doubt we'll see commercial production cheaper than $12-15 a box.

Ammo has been steadily climbing, and though its taken bigger leaps in the last couple years, now that they've seen what we'll pay, they'll not be incentive to lower prices barring a crashing demand.

I’m certainly no economics or marketing guru, but I have to believe that supply and demand will rule.

We just saw that happen with EBR’s. The price doubled with the Obama scare. People were buying AR’s that had been selling for $700-$800 and were paying $1500 or more. The minute that one of the manufacturers breaks ranks on the price fixing; the others will fall in line or go under.

There is and will always be a market for overpriced guns, that is why you see some used guns selling for more than new retail; there is no market for overpriced ammo.

If the war ends and the demand drops, manufacturers will (I assume) be in competition again.

It may be a while before we see decreases because of fear; but that can only last so long.

We just saw a forum dealer that got ripped by his supplier. He took a big hit because of the outrageous pricing. We also saw an ammunition web site do it. I like to think they will not survive those decisions; but we will see.

This isn’t like the gas companies where they can get away with price fixing because we have to have their product and the government is willing to stand by and let them commit criminal acts.

We don’t have to shoot. And those that can’t afford it won’t.

I had the money set-aside to start reloading just to try it out. Dillon press, the whole works. But I looked at it every way from Sunday and I couldn’t see where I would save a dime. Even if that were the case the same people would be price fixing.

But I’m not making an argument; I do not know. I just hope I am right.

[Guest 70below]

Its true that in todays market with component shortages its hard to save much by reloading. There is an initial investment, and the beginning stages have more costs associated than once you've been doing it awhile. Reloading 9mm has less benefit seen than reloading 500 S&W or match grade ammo.

I began reloading my own match grade ammo for my .30-06 bolt gun at the beginning of the year. For my purposes a $75 Lee aniversary kit was appropriate and the costs were quicker to recoup versus $30-40 boxes of match ammo, and the ammo is custom to my gun hence more accurate.

I've been reloading 500 S&W and .40 a rd sure is more appealing than $1.80 a rd. Most people already have access to the brass, and it tends to be the most expensive component, the rest have been easier to find a reasonable prices lately if you search around.

[50 cal]

do garands take a special kind of 30-06 ammo?

You need a certain burn rate powder to run a Garand. The gas port pressure has to be on the downside of the pressure curve or serious damage to the op rod will occuer.