Calling a lawyer after a self defense situation

[strickj]

He merely stated his rights Dave.

He said nothing about refusing to cooperate

[Fallguy]

So you have a dead guy on your living room floor, you are refusing to make a statement, and now you are going to start thumping on your chest and banging heads with the investigators?

It’s a short walk to the cage car in handcuffs. What could possibly be your reasoning in forcing an arrest?

Let me clarify...If I choose to give a statement at that moment. Yes, I know at some point I need to tell my side. Never said I was refusing to give a statement completely. But it does not have to be at that moment. It may be after I go to the hospital, had a nights sleep, talked with a lawyer or any combination of the three. Or depending on the situation I may give a statement right away.

If they have enough to arrest you they are going to do that with or without a statement from you.

Contrary to popular beilef....there are still some rights afforded to the citizens of this country.

[TGO David]

If I ever have to use deadly force in my home to protect my family against an intruder in the middle of the night... I really hope that Todd @ CIS is not the officer who responds to the call. I just don't think I could handle being questioned about how loose my grouping was at a time like that.

[Angus]

If I ever have to use deadly force in my home to protect my family against an intruder in the middle of the night... I really hope that Todd @ CIS is not the officer who responds to the call. I just don't think I could handle being questioned about how loose my grouping was at a time like that.

+1.....

[Guest Todd@CIS]

If I ever have to use deadly force in my home to protect my family against an intruder in the middle of the night... I really hope that Todd @ CIS is not the officer who responds to the call. I just don't think I could handle being questioned about how loose my grouping was at a time like that.

Or why your XD and M&P jammed and you then had to beat the intruder to death with them...

[TGO David]

Or why your XD and M&P jammed and you then had to beat the intruder to death with them...

XD Free Since July 2008

[DaveTN]

This isn’t about exercising your rights. If you want to exercise your rights; go vote.

This is about protecting yourself and your family. You carry a gun for that reason so why would you throw yourself under a bus and call it “standing up for your rightsâ€.

This thread is about calling an attorney and having a plan. If any part of your thought process is that you care going to sit around drinking Caffe Latte’s waiting for your attorney to grace the scene with his presence… you need to have a serious talk with your attorney.

Remember the video that was posted here where the lawyer told kids to get out of the car and lock the doors on a traffic stop? That was just bizarre ignorance. And refusing to make a statement or not cooperating with the investigators right then is just as ignorant.

My point is that, yes the Police will allow you to talk with an attorney. But they will tell you to call him. If you can’t decide on your own if you should make a statement; you need someone you can talk to right then. Blurting out that you thought he was going to kill you or saying you need to see a Doctor is just silliness. Be prepared to take care of business.

BTW, I just noticed that this thread is over a year half old… so RBC do you have an attorney lined up yet?

[Im Neero]

Blurting out that you thought he was going to kill you or saying you need to see a Doctor is just silliness. Be prepared to take care of business.

So you would suggest something along the lines of "He probably didn't mean me no harm, but I jest figgered he needed shootin."?

I'm going to have to go with the wisdom of every HCP trainer I've ever heard of on this one and hang on to my plan of "blurting out" that "he was going to kill me."

[Fallguy]

My point is that, yes the Police will allow you to talk with an attorney. But they will tell you to call him.

Why do you have to do what the "tell" you?

(The rest is not directed at any specific member)

While I think most of us are in the middle (me included) when it comes to interaction with LEOs we definitely have two extremes.... One let the police do what ever they want, search for anything everywhere they want to, if they "jump" ask, "how hi?" on the way up. The other is not going to speak unless spoken to, show no courtesy, do absolutely nothing they don't have to.

I admit I probably slightly lean toward the later from the middle....but people in the two extremes kill me..

[DaveTN]

(The rest is not directed at any specific member)

I admit I probably slightly lean toward the later from the middle....but people in the two extremes kill me..

You quoted me; is that directed at me?

[Fallguy]

You quoted me; is that directed at me?

No, The first part "Why do you have to do what the "tell" you?" was directed towards your posistion....

[DaveTN]

No, The first part "Why do you have to do what the "tell" you?" was directed towards your posistion....

They are not going to take me, no matter what size town I'm in, unless they arrest me. If I choose to give a statement, I will voluntarily go and leave at anytime I see fit.

You have committed a homicide.

That could be a family member or your wifes dead lover on the floor for all the cops know. You HAVE to give a statement if you feel you were justified in killing this person. You may choose to wait until your attorney gets there; but you are silly if you think you are going to come and go as you please. Did I not see you post that you were once a LEO? That means a cop to me, is that what you were? I’m at a loss why you would want to do anything other than cooperate and be done with it.

[Fallguy]

You have committed a homicide.

That could be a family member or your wifes dead lover on the floor for all the cops know. You HAVE to give a statement if you feel you were justified in killing this person. You may choose to wait until your attorney gets there; but you are silly if you think you are going to come and go as you please. Did I not see you post that you were once a LEO? That means a cop to me, is that what you were? I’m at a loss why you would want to do anything other than cooperate and be done with it.

A homicide is a determination of fact to be made by a jury.

It could be anyone that I just killed, that is why the police have to investigate it. If it was a good shoot, then I will tell them that. I will damn well go and come as I please, if I am not under arrest. Of course I will say/do what I feel comfortable with at the time to keep from being arrested.

It is the very fact that I have worked in (deputy sheriff and reserve a while before that) and close to law enforcement (dispatch, EMS, FD and Rescue) (also have family currently in law enforcement) as to why I won't simply bend over and stick my a$$ in the air and what to have a LEO d**k rammed in it. But at the same time I'm not going to be an a$$hole to them either and will cooperate to the level I see fit as long as I am within my legal rights.

[Oh Shoot]

A homicide is a determination of fact to be made by a jury. ...

Not necessarily - lots of, I'll even dare say most, self defense scenarios are never presented to grand jury.

- OS

[Fallguy]

Not necessarily - lots of, I'll even dare say most, self defense scenarios are never presented to grand jury.

- OS

True if the DA rules it self-defense it may go nor further. Even if he presents it to a grand jury they still don't determine if a homicide has been commented or not, simply that there is enough evidence to bring a charge.

Only a final ruling by a trial jury or judge will determine if it is a homicide or not.

My point is the people on the scene are not going to be the ones to legally determine it is a homicide.

[Oh Shoot]

....My point is the people on the scene are not going to be the ones to legally determine it is a homicide.

That's true enough.

- OS

[Reservoir Dog]

Only a final ruling by a trial jury or judge will determine if it is a homicide or not.

My point is the people on the scene are not going to be the ones to legally determine it is a homicide.

Huh?

If someone kills another person, you have a homicide. Regardless if it is a good shoot or not, you still have a homicide. Nothing is going to change that. I assume you mean that the DA/Judge/Jury will ultimately determine if it is a justifiable homicide or a murder. Correct?

[Im Neero]

We should be clear on the legal definition of a homicide, for the purposes of this conversation. Unless you poison the guy, or convince the cops that a stranger walked into your house, there will be no question as to whether or not a homicide was committed. A homicide is simply one person killing another.

Nothing wrong with a justifiable homicide, though.

[Fallguy]

Yes...I did mean more to what degree or guilt of homicide. I apologize for not being more clear.

Also I just want to remind everyone...I have never said I wouldn't or that anyone else shouldn't give a statement. I'm just saying that you don't have to while everyone is still standing over the body, if you don't want to. If you want to....say what you want to say.

If I feel my statement will help the DA determine it to be self-defense I will give my statement as soon as I feel I can.

Let me ask you this. If your best friend just knocked the crap out of you, just out of the blue. Then someone asked you how you felt about it..and your answer would determine the rest of your friendship with that person... would you want to answer why you are still stunned and hurting or after you have had time to collect your thoughts?

[DaveTN]

Yes...I did mean more to what degree or guilt of homicide. I apologize for not being more clear.

Also I just want to remind everyone...I have never said I wouldn't or that anyone else shouldn't give a statement. I'm just saying that you don't have to while everyone is still standing over the body, if you don't want to. If you want to....say what you want to say.

If I feel my statement will help the DA determine it to be self-defense I will give my statement as soon as I feel I can.

Let me ask you this. If your best friend just knocked the crap out of you, just out of the blue. Then someone asked you how you felt about it..and your answer would determine the rest of your friendship with that person... would you want to answer why you are still stunned and hurting or after you have had time to collect your thoughts?

Fallguy, I am not implying that you should not call your lawyer, and I am not saying that you should not think about what you are saying. I am saying that you should be prepared to make things happen in a timely manner.

From the moment the cop walks on the scene you are not free to leave until they have a statement. If you feel some misguided feelings about your rights or think that the cops are out to get you; you need to be making a phone call and getting something besides voice mail. If pushing that to the point of placing you under arrest sounds like a plan; go for it.

But you of all people (a former Police Officer) having experience handing these type of calls and having been involved in these kinds of investigations should know how that will end.

[Guest Phantom6]

You have committed a homicide.

That could be a family member or your wifes dead lover on the floor for all the cops know. You HAVE to give a statement if you feel you were justified in killing this person. You may choose to wait until your attorney gets there; but you are silly if you think you are going to come and go as you please. Did I not see you post that you were once a LEO? That means a cop to me, is that what you were? I’m at a loss why you would want to do anything other than cooperate and be done with it.

Maybe I missed something along the way but I don't believe that anyone said anything about coming or going as they pleased while being the shooter in a homicide investigation. If I have to sit in the box all night long with my mouth shut while some knuckle dragger kicked chairs and screamed, that is certainly preferable to making a mis-statement and ending up with a room mate named Bubba and having my dance card full for the Halloween Ball. Smart Cops wait for their PBA rep prior to making a full and complete statement.

I'm going to ask for medical attention. One of the first things they will do at the ER is to draw blood and run a tox screen to determine what is or is not in my body. If I had been at Appleby's 4 hours earlier and had a scotch, and believe me a good attorney will discover that, I want a medical expert to say that I had no alcohol in my system.

I'm not a cop and never have been but I've worked with 'em and with attorneys for over 30 years. To a man (and woman) the advice has been the same. Make a brief statement including only that information I provided in the earlier post. I have never been the subject of a homicide investigation but I will follow and pass along the advice of the experts that have conducted and been a part of those types of investigations.

[The Average Joe]

Didn't have time to read all the posts, so my point in my post may have alread been covered.

My Opinion: This is an excellent topic.

Every HCP holder (including myself) should keep a name and number of a good self defence lawyer in his wallet for just such an occasion.

My Point: Another thing that may or may not have been mentioned in this thread, is that once your good self-defence attorney gets you off in that self-defence case, you'll more than likely have a wrongful death suit waiting for you in the wings.

My Theory: Everybody knows that a piece of trash punk that gets killed in the street, like a dog that he is, seems to always have a wife/girlfriend/mother with at least 2-3 illegitimate kids running around looking to capitalize on said punk's death.

Edited October 24, 2008 by The Average Joe
spelling

[Im Neero]

you'll more than likely have a wrongful death suite waiting for you in the wings.

Did Tchaicovsky write that?

[TGO David]

Maybe I missed something along the way but I don't believe that anyone said anything about coming or going as they pleased while being the shooter in a homicide investigation. If I have to sit in the box all night long with my mouth shut while some knuckle dragger kicked chairs and screamed, that is certainly preferable to making a mis-statement and ending up with a room mate named Bubba and having my dance card full for the Halloween Ball. Smart Cops wait for their PBA rep prior to making a full and complete statement.

I'm going to ask for medical attention. One of the first things they will do at the ER is to draw blood and run a tox screen to determine what is or is not in my body. If I had been at Appleby's 4 hours earlier and had a scotch, and believe me a good attorney will discover that, I want a medical expert to say that I had no alcohol in my system.

I'm not a cop and never have been but I've worked with 'em and with attorneys for over 30 years. To a man (and woman) the advice has been the same. Make a brief statement including only that information I provided in the earlier post. I have never been the subject of a homicide investigation but I will follow and pass along the advice of the experts that have conducted and been a part of those types of investigations.

THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH, RIGHT THERE.

And for what it's worth, and it should be worth quite a bit given that I paid $250 to hear it in a class, there are current law enforcement officers on this forum who also teach civilian defensive firearms classes and they recommend the exact same thing.

Keep your mouth shut! You will get to spend some time in the jail cell, but that's just part of the game. ANYTHING that you say can and will be used against you. It's better to sit quietly in the jail cell and allow someone far more skilled at the game (i.e. your attorney) to do the talking for you.

Anyone who does it any other way is a damn fool and I don't care how many people that rubs wrong. Part of carrying a handgun for self defense is accepting that if you ever have to use it, the cops will get involved and that you will have to spend a little time under their care while the facts of the event are sorted out.

If you can't handle that, then you don't need to be carrying a gun!

Your statement on the scene should be no more, no less than:

1. Officer I was in fear for my life and/or the lives of my family members.
   
2. Point out any relevant evidence. (The knife, gun, axe, chainsaw, etc. that the attacker was using is located there.)
   
3. My firearm is located [give location] and is [loaded/unloaded]. Please secure it.
   
4. I will gladly make a statement to assist your investigation, but only after I have my attorney present.
   

Optionally, #6 -- I don't feel well and request that you call an ambulance and have me taken to the hospital immediately. I'm afraid that I may be having a panic attack, heart attack, etc.

[G27]

Best advice I've heard (for Memphis folks): if involved in a shooting, ask for medical attention. All potential gunshot victims are directed to the Med, which has an average non-emergency wait of 18 hours. Plenty of time for your adrenaline to go away and for you to collect your thoughts, talk to your atty, etc.

I would call my long-time council (whom I don't believe handles criminal cases) and ask for a referral. I've also got DoubleAfterSplit's number on the back of my attorney's biz card...