Transporting Loaded Magazines

[analog_kidd]

I just recently became a first time handgun owner, and am still trying to figure out some of the "rules". I'm planning on taking the carry class in a few weeks, and then get my permit, so my question won't matter much in a few months, but here goes anyway.

I thought I saw a discussion on a different board about carrying loaded mags in the car on the way to the range. According to some of the users, some states consider a loaded mag illegal, even if it is seperated from the gun. In my situation, I have a pickup, so no trunk is available. I keep the gun, out of reach behind the seat, in the case, and unloaded. I keep the bullets in my glovebox. The last time I went to the range, I had a loaded mag, and just put it in the glovebox with the bullets.

In TN without a carry permit, do I need to unload the magazine when transporting?

Thanks

[Guest Medic908]

I would say you're OK if the magazines are locked separate from the weapon (magazines locked in glove box, weapon secured in a case). The safest thing to do would be transport everything unloaded (no magazines in weapon, no ammunition in magazines). Obtain a carry permit and it won't be an issue.

If no interest in a HCP or not enough time, option #2 above should keep you safe with most LEOs.

[Guest Kingfish]

Take this for what it is worth...

My HCP instructor said he had a personal friend that was arrested because he had 2 rounds in a magazine after visiting the range (no permit.) Gun out of reach, magazine out of reach with magazine separate from gun. It was considered a loaded weapon. Do not recall the outcome, but he was arrested.

[Guest dotsun]

Well I thought I'd seen TN code on this, but I can't for the life of me find it. If anyone can track it down I'd appreciate it.

[DaveTN]

In TN without a carry permit, do I need to unload the magazine when transporting?anks

I would unload it.

Here is what Tennessee laws says...

39-17-1307. Unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon. —

(a) (1) A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4?), or a club.

(2) An offense under subdivision (a)(1) is a Class C misdemeanor, except it is a Class A misdemeanor if the person's carrying of a handgun occurred at a place open to the public where one (1) or more persons were present.

( (1) A person commits an offense who possesses a handgun and:

(A) Has been convicted of a felony involving the use or attempted use of force, violence or a deadly weapon; or

( Has been convicted of a felony drug offense.

(2) An offense under subdivision ((1) is a Class E felony.

© (1) A person commits an offense who possesses any deadly weapon with intent to employ it in the commission of or escape from an offense.

(2) An offense under subdivision ©(1) is a Class E felony.

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1029, § 6.]

39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon. —

(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;

(2) By a person authorized to possess or carry a firearm pursuant to § 39-17-1315 or § 39-17-1351;

(3) At the person's:

(A) Place of residence;

( Place of business; or

© Premises;

(4) Incident to lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or other lawful activity;

(5) By a person possessing a rifle or shotgun while engaged in the lawful protection of livestock from predatory animals;

(6) By a Tennessee valley authority officer who holds a valid commission from the commissioner of safety pursuant to this part while the officer is in the performance of the officer's official duties;

(7) By a state, county or municipal judge or any federal judge or any federal or county magistrate;

(8) By a person possessing a club or baton who holds a valid state security guard/officer registration card as a private security guard/officer, issued by the commissioner, and who also has certification that the officer has had training in the use of club or baton that is valid and issued by a person certified to give training in the use of clubs or batons;

(9) By any person possessing a club or baton who holds a certificate that the person has had training in the use of a club or baton for self-defense that is valid and issued by a certified person authorized to give training in the use of clubs or batons, and is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm under any local, state or federal laws; or

(10) By any out-of-state, full-time, commissioned law enforcement officer who holds a valid commission card from the appropriate out-of-state law enforcement agency and a photo identification; provided, that if no valid commission card and photo identification are retained, then it shall be unlawful for that officer to carry firearms in this state and the provisions of this section shall not apply. The defense provided by this subdivision (a)(10) shall only be applicable if the state where the out-of-state officer is employed has entered into a reciprocity agreement with this state that allows a full-time, commissioned law enforcement officer in Tennessee to lawfully carry or possess a weapon in the other state.

( The defenses described in this section are not available to persons described in § 39-17-1307((1).

[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1029, § 7; 1993, ch. 200, § 1; 1996, ch. 1009, §§ 20, 21; 1997, ch. 476, § 3; 1999, ch. 295, § 1; 2003, ch. 144, § 2.]

[Marswolf]

My interpretation is that if you can get to both the gun and loaded magazines (or just the ammo) quickly, you are in trouble.

If you don't stop somewhere along the route where it could get stolen, the ammo could just be put in the truck bed. A better solution is to go ahead and get your carry permit.

[The Rabbi]

You can arrest anyone for anything. That's what makes America great.

It would come down to, how close were the two items, how easily could the person access them. A loaded mag on the seat next to you is different from one in a zipped up pouch.

Second, how likely are you to get stopped. If you do, how likely is it the officer will find the stuff to begin with.

And that brings up the whole issue of illegal search and seizure.

[molonlabetn]

If you have a rifle* or pistol (without possessing an HCP) in your vehicle, and loaded magazines, it would be my advise to keep one or the other locked up... ideally both, and seperately.

Regardless, if you insist on carrying loaded magazines, don't do anything which would result in a traffic stop... and never give permission for an unwarranted search.

*be careful about carrying rifles and loaded magazines... that is considered illegal. Probably wouldn't be an issue if one or the other was locked up and separated, but just be aware.

[dm239]

I would be careful with that. The instructor for my permit class told us that a loaded magazine is considered a loaded weapon.

[Guest Phantom6]

End your misery. Get a HCP

[The Rabbi]

I always encourage my customers to go get one. I don't do the training and get no direct benefit from it.

But my reasoning is that the more permit holders there are in the state the more lobbying for better laws there can be. There are already in excess of 200k permit holders in a state of 7M people. That's 200k potential voters, a politicians look at numbers like that.

[Guest dotsun]

Thx Davetn, I was all around it this morning and just missed it.

[DaveTN]

1. Being arrested even if you are innocent is expensive.

2. A “valid defense†is expensive even if you can prove it.

3. “Probable cause for a vehicle search†is a 12 lane interstate a thousand miles long. It almost always exists on a traffic stop.

4. Even if you can get the search thrown out; it’s expensive.

5. Being educated on criminal law and search and seizure while you are standing in front of a Judge is …. You guessed it…expensive.

5. A carry permit costs $250. Gum money compared to what you would spend on a legal defense.

You also need a legal explanation of how the situation of a pick-up truck not having a trunk to secure the weapons is handled. If I drove a pick-up I would call and talk to someone in your county’s States Attorneys office and see what they say; since their opinion is the only one that matters. (Other than the cop that stops you.)

[Guest Medic908]

I always encourage my customers to go get one. I don't do the training and get no direct benefit from it.

But my reasoning is that the more permit holders there are in the state the more lobbying for better laws there can be. There are already in excess of 200k permit holders in a state of 7M people. That's 200k potential voters, a politicians look at numbers like that.

Dude, check your post count - add another quick:eek:

[The Rabbi]

Dude, check your post count - add another quick:eek:

Why? You've got a problem, mortal???

BWAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:devil::devil:

[analog_kidd]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm definitely getting the permit the first time my work schedule and the class schedule coincide. Looks like it may be next month before that happens. Until the permit comes though, I think I'll play it safe and unload the magazines. It'll only take a moment, and it sounds like it could save countless hours of potential frustration.

[Marswolf]

Dude, check your post count - add another quick:eek:

Priceless!

[Marswolf]

Until the permit comes though, I think I'll play it safe and unload the magazines.

Remember, it's not just loaded magazines. Just having the ammunition in reach is also illegal.

[Mark@Sea]

Marswolf, quick question here - is a long gun with loaded magazines nearby in your vehicle legal with a carry permit, or are there other (fish and game, for example) regulations barring same?

I'm asking because I am a firm believer in 'a pistol is for fighting your way to your long gun'. I just don't want to get nailed for my trunk monkey.

[Marswolf]

Mark, it's a HANDGUN Carry Permit and doesn't help you with rifle matters.

Carrying with the intent to go armed relates to long arms as well as handguns.

There are other regulations for weapons in Wildlife Management Areas that we've been trying to change but haven't gotten it done yet.

[molonlabetn]

That's why I want a Krink AK74 pistol for the trunk...

[Mike.357]

You can arrest anyone for anything

I will vouch for this fact.

never give permission for an unwarranted search.

+1

the ammo could just be put in the truck bed

There is the proper answer.

Do not have ammo and guns in your truck cab without a HCP period.

And even when you do get a permit do not transport loaded rifles, ever.

[Mark@Sea]

Thats' what I figured...

Well, the search is still on for some sort of short nasty I can (legally) keep in the vehicle. Am I gonna have to go the AOW or SBR route?

MolonLave, any links or current sources for the Krinkov (much as I dislike the ugly little mutt, if it classes as a pistol...)

[The Rabbi]

In order of cost:

SKS with loaded strippers, which arent considered magazines.

AK pistol

Kel Tec PLR 16

AR pistol.

[Mark@Sea]

Thanks, Rabbi, that breaks it down nicely... Of those choices, the SKS would be my first.