Am I a moron, or am I doing this right?

[StPatrick]

So I bought my first handgun awhile back, with the intention of becoming a of becoming a proficient shooter. In the meantime, I have found that friends of mine got their ccw permits without learning how to shoot. I have nearly 800 rounds through my first gun, and am not satisfied with my placement. I have yet to work on rapid fire or follow-up shot drills. Am I being too anal, or is this the correct progression? I am not comfortable carrying a loaded weapon until I feel 99% sure I can hit what I want to hit, but maybe I am being too careful. Thoughts?

[Smith]

What do you consider good "placement" of your shots? Meaning distance to target group size etc.?

I can tell you that 800 rnds is usually just on the other side of getting a new pistol "broken in". It will take many more than 800 to start seeing improvement. Training will speed this up tremendously.

Despite what some people think, shooting is not intuitive. In fact it is rather counter intuitive for a person to hold an explosion in their hand and not take cover.It is a learned skill that fades very quickly without "good" practice. Movies have led some to believe they can simply pick up a pistol and shoot a bad guy in the arm, leg, or shoot the gun out of the perps hand at 50 yrds and that just ain't so.

You are wise to seek more skill, so don't be afraid to learn good habits from a profesional.

[Guest beefcakeb0]

better safe than sorry isnt just an expression imo.... but really if it boils down to firing just dont fire out of your confident range. i mean if you can avoid shooting someone that would be ideal, but if its a life or death situation my guess would say its gonna be close range, so if your good at 15 yards and great at 7 i would be happy

[mousegunner]

I am not comfortable carrying a loaded weapon until I feel 99% sure I can hit what I want to hit, but maybe I am being too careful. Thoughts?

As someone intimated above, it depends on the distance. For self-defense, you don't need to be very accurate at more than seven yards. If you can generally hit what you aim at at less than seven yards, that's good enough. Most times you will be confronted at a much shorter distance than that. Another thought, self-defense involves target that are moving, and you yourself will be moving, too. So it gets VERY difficult over just a few yards.

[TGO David]

So I bought my first handgun awhile back, with the intention of becoming a of becoming a proficient shooter. In the meantime, I have found that friends of mine got their ccw permits without learning how to shoot. I have nearly 800 rounds through my first gun, and am not satisfied with my placement. I have yet to work on rapid fire or follow-up shot drills. Am I being too anal, or is this the correct progression? I am not comfortable carrying a loaded weapon until I feel 99% sure I can hit what I want to hit, but maybe I am being too careful. Thoughts?

Fast is fine, but accuracy is final. --Larry Vickers

You can't miss fast enough. --Unknown

Every bullet you fire has a lawyer attached to it. --Unknown

Speed comes as a natural progression of accuracy. Combat accuracy is a loose term defining the act of putting all of your bullets into the target at the maximum effective range of a defensive situation. Pulling the trigger fast does no good if you're sending your shots into the scenery around your target.

Continue working on the basics of sight alignment and trigger control. A competent shooter should be able to group their shots into a space the size of a 3x5 note card at 7yds without problem. Then work back to 15yds and push yourself to achieve the same goal. Once you can do that with slow, deliberate shots, go back to 7yds and start pushing yourself to accelerate your follow-up shots.

There is no sense in hosing your target with rounds. 2-3 shot strings are sufficient.

Keep working at it and keep pushing yourself to the point just past the envelope of where you are no longer accurate, then dial it back a little. This is the most effective way of training to improve both accuracy and speed.

Good luck.

[Fallguy]

The main thing for you is your comfort level, so if that is what you want to do, then do it.

The range portion of the safety course is fairly easy even for those that have never handled a handgun. Also nothing says you can't continue training after you get your HCP, or that you have to carry after you get your HCP if you wanted to get it now and wait till you were comfortable before you carried everyday.

While all the training you can do is good, not sure I'd wait till I qualified for an expert badge before I got my permit or carried.

[Guest JHatmaker]

Another quote I like is: "I've never seen a stopwatch at a gun fight" - Clint Smith

Everyone has pretty much summed it up, with Fallguy saying exactly what I was thinking; don't wait to get your permit just because you think you're not an expert shooter. You could be protecting yourself or others, and maybe not even have to fire the gun at someone should a bad situation arise.

[LagerHead]

You already have the correct mindset it seems. You are concerned with the potential unintended consequences, and that is good. My recommendation is to keep shooting, go get your HCP, and then take follow on classes that will help you develop as a shooter and a defender of life.

As a recent graduate of CIS's Advanced Concealed Carry class (yesterday, in fact) I can recommend it without hesitation. Todd and Dustin did a great job, were patient and respectful, and the level of instruction speaks volumes about their knowledge and experience.

[JeffL]

You'll also probably have a 3 to 4 month wait time between when you send off your paperwork and get you permit. Hit the range every other weekend, you should be able to get plenty of practice in.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

StPatrick...I like your mindset, just don't be "too anal" with it.

Give us an idea of where you're at now and you'll get more educated opinions.

Certainly not bragging, but I'm generally considered the best with a pistol at my Dept. But guess what? I'm still not good enough and I never will be.

But I'm going to keep trying.

"Fast is fine, but accuracy is final." Wyatt Earp

LagerHead...thank you, sir (for your business, comments, and service).

Edited August 17, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[frontier737]

. Thoughts?

IMHO....one word training (by a competent instructor). Having been to two class at CIS I would recommend them in a second.

Practice at the range is great but it can and does reinforce bad habits.

Todd said it best, "...we hope that in the end you walked away with another piece of the puzzle. Please continue down your training path...for the rest of your life."

[Guest Bronker]

You already have the correct mindset it seems. You are concerned with the potential unintended consequences, and that is good. My recommendation is to keep shooting, go get your HCP, and then take follow on classes that will help you develop as a shooter and a defender of life.

As a recent graduate of CIS's Advanced Concealed Carry class (yesterday, in fact) I can recommend it without hesitation. Todd and Dustin did a great job, were patient and respectful, and the level of instruction speaks volumes about their knowledge and experience.

+1 all of that.

[crashgordan]

agree. professional training.

worth every penny of the $400.00 you will spend on your next 800 rds.

[Guest grimel]

Another quote I like is: "I've never seen a stopwatch at a gun fight" - Clint Smith

But, it is still there only you don't know when it started and what the par is for the event.

[Guest H0TSH0T]

i learned a little differently in how to shoot. but this may work for you, the hardest thing is to present the weapon and trust the sight picture, this does not take any rounds to learn, practice your draw focus on the front sight, you can do this while watching the news, (make sure you weapon is unloaded) (then make sure again)

after your comfortable with you presentation, get used to loading empty mags and keeping you sight picture

now when you feel that that is accomplished go to the range, use a paper plate, take your time, place your shots well

if you find that your antisapating your recoil mix up your ammo in the mag with some dummy rounds, this will make you clear your weapon and focus on your shooting

don't stare to long at your sights this will give you a shakey hand and a miss, point and fire, point and fire

don't jerk your trigger, steady tention till discharge, reaquire your sight picture, and ready for your next round. don't forget your breathing, rember to be comfortable not rushed.

later you can put multi targets up and point and fire , aim at the next, and so on

once your good at that( range golf ), start shooting golf balls, it is amazing how this will focus your mind and accuracy then go back to shooting a target you will see that your comfort and control have rewarded you with accuracy.

you do not need to shoot fast, that will come with time and comfort, i see alot of yahoos at the range that think fast is better, but rember this is about you and developing a life saving skill. don't worry about speed, slow and smooth is fast and accurate.

[Guest momuzyk]

^ What they said

I have never shot before and took my class at Guns N Leather at Greenbriar & hit 100% body mass. So if you have done any type of training, you will be just fine. You also could chose what caliber you wanted to shoot as well. Most of the people who didn't bring their own weapon shot 22's.

[StPatrick]

Thanks for all the advice, I appreciate it. Professional instruction is something I will look into, but for now I will continue working on my trigger pull. I am still shooting 8-9" groups at 10 yards, cosistently making the same misses, so the technique and repeatability aren't there yet.

[Smith]

Where are you "missing"? I usually miss low left which indicates jerking the trigger and anticipating recoil. Knowing where you "miss" can tell you a lot about how to practice. Remember practicing wrong is worse than not practicing.

I can't ever find the training target, but I'm sure some one can link to it.

[EMTRN]

I got my HCP 10 years ago and have been shooting for much longer. It took years for me to become what I consider a good shooter. I credit lots of dry-firing, and listening and watching those who I considered to be proficient shooters. I shot more before I got into law enforcement, seems like I had more time.

[Guest mn32768]

I am not comfortable carrying a loaded weapon until I feel 99% sure I can hit what I want to hit, but maybe I am being too careful. Thoughts?

There are folks who get a HCP for "just in case", or as a "flashy badge", never intending to carry full time. Getting a HCP in Tennessee does not make one any more qualified to handle a firearm than getting a Tennessee Driver's License makes one competent to drive (it's a joke). When I took my HCP class, the instructor told me that for many people there, the HCP class was the first and the last time they ever fired a gun.

However, whereas you can get insured against being stupid on the road, your only insurance against being stupid with a firearm are the skills you possess. If you accidentally shoot someone while carrying, you're gonna get your pants sued off, with no insurance company to bail you out.

So, IMO if you're planning on carrying, getting as much practice as you can (with the right firearm) is money in the bank.

[Guest trigem]

My wife finally let me take her to the range, after years of hints..

She has consistently shot good groups but always to the low left, after three trips to the range, I put a laser on her pistol and it really helped her see what she was doing wrong.

With a laser & a verified empty weapon, you can practice dry firing in a safe location where there's no one in the direction that you are practicing

Also there is also a product they call snap caps which are fake bullets that you can load up in your magazine and rack'em into the tube (chamber) and dry fire, makes good practice for clearing jams also

The laser will tell you whats happening when you start working the trigger,

Good luck

Edited August 18, 2009 by trigem

[StPatrick]

I miss low and left, due to poor trigger skills. I get a little better every time, and more importantly, I am more aware of what is happening during the shot every time. Eventually, this "self-improvement" phase will plateau. Based on the comments I've received from all you friendly tgo readers, I will then pursue professional instruction. Thanks!

[bubbiesdad]

Thanks for all the advice, I appreciate it. Professional instruction is something I will look into, but for now I will continue working on my trigger pull. I am still shooting 8-9" groups at 10 yards, cosistently making the same misses, so the technique and repeatability aren't there yet.

That kind of shooting is plenty good enough to pass the shooting portion of the HCP test.

[chemprof]

I just finished my CCW class a couple of weeks ago and seriously think there were several in the class, to some degree myself, that were doing just b/c of the current Administration and SCOTUS changes taking place. I thought the same as you--too inexperienced--but I did it anyway, after a 10-year hiatus from my only time at the range, and went once for practice again before my testing and did fine. I, too, am planning on doing more training classes as I want to get better and appreciate all the advice and comments of everyone here!

[Guest dizzielizzie]

I think on one hand you are correct for being hesitant to get your HCP, StPatrick, because you want to make sure you really know what you're doing when it comes to shooting a gun. On the other hand, I think you might be wasting precious time waiting. The class covers other things too...

If you have been on TGO and reading lots, you probably know the laws pretty good. The class covers most of them, but I'm sure everyone will agree one has to do a little "homework" to be familiar with all of them.

The class also covers various topics depending on the instructor, but I'm assuming they cover carry/concealment options, maybe a few "what if" scenarios, and a few interpretations of the laws. And you're missing out on the state's video...

I say you are wasting time because obtaining a HCP permit is kind of a pain-in-the-butt (not to be confused with glock-butt, ha!) Class, DMV, fingerprinting, need I say any more? Then the wait period... Please come join us, the privileged and the protected, because at 800 rounds you're more likely to be a better shot than others! We need you!