What gives...

[Guest beefcakeb0]

Oh, one last thing...

That is probably the most ridiculous political observation that I've ever read on TGO. Actually, the unfettered arrogance of the typical American consumer thinking that they are God's gift to every industry that sells a good or service is probably more at fault for the erosion of capitalism than anything. The American consumer has become so accustomed to always being "right" and demanding of the lowest prices, to hell with the consequences, that many American businesses could no longer compete with the off-shore sweat shops that were willing to do whatever it took to deliver.

Think... Wal-mart. Think... Apple's iPod factory labor-camps in China.

We Americans tend to be cheap bastards with an absurd sense of entitlement, and it has caused tremendous damage to our economy as a result.

i could not agree more

[DavidCBaker]

The customer is always right. Period. They're the ones that ALLOW you have a business.

That's bullsh1t.

The customer always has the power, but they are not always right.

The only time the customer is always right is if it's the right kind of customer.

BTW, you haven't sent your money in yet to support the web site?

[Guest forklift]

Oh, one last thing... That is probably the most ridiculous political observation that I've ever read on TGO.

Maybe, but it further illustrates the point that you don't know me, my sense of humor, or my needs/wants.

The American consumer has become so accustomed to always being "right" and demanding of the lowest prices, to hell with the consequences, that many American businesses could no longer compete with the off-shore sweat shops that were willing to do whatever it took to deliver.

I dissagree.

I believe the erosion of capitalism is not the consumer's fault for wanting cheaper products. It's not MY fault that walmart and kroger exist, but you can be darn sure I'm going to capitalize on the fact that I can get stuff cheaper there when I want it - especially ammunition. It's not the consumer's fault that stores like walmart and kroger want people's business. They offer the same goods at lower prices. Not everything (ammo for example) is bought and made overseas by a little guy in a sweat shop making 2 cents an hour. So don't pretend like cheap chinese imports are the reason gun stores are so expensive.

Back to my political point - every store I know of with no exception has JACKED the prices up on everything since Obamanation began in January. This isn't opinion, it's fact.

But hey, if I were to take what you guys are saying, then it's our fault and the consumer is wrong to notice such things.

[gregintenn]

Joe's shop wouldn't be growing exponentially every year if he treated people like you have described. In fact what worries me is that the tone of what you wrote almost suggests that you intend to start spreading the word that Joe @ Hero Gear is a jerk and won't wheel and deal with people on prices. If you've never set foot in his store and dealt with him, please don't start a rumor like that based off of your impressions in this thread. Not about Joe, not about anyone.

I don't know Joe from Adam and have never been in his store. I don't intend on spreading any rumors about anyone. I was trying to point out the fact that his posts in this thread seemed a bit arrogant and rude. I doubt he meant to come off that way, and I was hoping he'd think before appearing that way in front of his customers. I tried, unsuccessfully it would appear, to help him. I often sound like a jerk when not trying to, and appreciate it when someone points it out in a courteous way. I wish Joe the best and hope his business booms.

[56FordGuy]

Back to my political point - every store I know of with no exception has JACKED the prices up on everything since Obamanation began in January. This isn't opinion, it's fact.

For a brief time, demand went up faster than the supply. Thus, prices went up. Some places did try to stick it to folks and play on their fear, others didn't. That's a fact, too.

Prices tend to increase over time, too. When was the last time we saw 100 rounds of 7.62x39 for $10.00?

[Metalhead]

In general, most manufacturers do a 1-5% increase in price every year. S&W just went up another point last week. Hell, I remember 2-3 years ago selling good 9mm for what I have to sell CCI 22LR for nowadays.

Back to my political point - every store I know of with no exception has JACKED the prices up on everything since Obamanation began in January. This isn't opinion, it's fact.

All I have to say about this is:

1. We, for one, are charging the same dollar amount of markup on our items that we have for... forever.

2. A HUGE reason why you saw apparently every gun shop trying to screw you over with their prices was because the wholesalers were screwing us. I don't really know how much you know about how the majority of business's get their products, but I'll tell you: it's through distribution. And when wholesale distributors decide to raise their prices to cash in the craze, we in turn have to raise ours since we are paying more for the supply and still need to keep the light bill paid. Majority of the distributors raised their prices in some form of fashion, and then there are other distributors <cough> Lew Horton <cough> that wanted to charge us $1500 for a plain M4 Bushmaster.

It would be all well and good to say, "Well, then you just shouldnt have bought from them then!" but unfortunately it doesnt work like that. Sure, we and just about everyone else could have, but without products to sell, we make no money. When we make no money, we have to shut down. Best thing we can do is grin and bear it while remembering those that really tried to stick it to us when times are better. Thus why Lew Horton will never see another dime of G&L money - and it's a shame, I'd love to order people those custom shop S&W's they have from time to time, but I wont even do that now.

But I digress.... either way, if you dont like my price on something, feel free to shoot me an offer on it. If it's something insulting, I'll more than likely laugh at you and show you exactly what I have in it, and tell you to have a nice day.

Edited August 16, 2009 by Metalhead

[gregintenn]

either way, if you dont like my price on something, feel free to shoot me an offer on it.

I like this attitude better than this one:

3. Think you're smarter than me? Think you have this industry all figured out?

Step up and put your money where your mouth is! Bring me a check and I will give you the alarm codes and keys to the door.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but guess which store is more likely to get my business.

[BimmerFreak]

I don't know Joe from Adam and have never been in his store. I don't intend on spreading any rumors about anyone. I was trying to point out the fact that his posts in this thread seemed a bit arrogant and rude. I doubt he meant to come off that way, and I was hoping he'd think before appearing that way in front of his customers. I tried, unsuccessfully it would appear, to help him. I often sound like a jerk when not trying to, and appreciate it when someone points it out in a courteous way. I wish Joe the best and hope his business booms.

Greg

As you said, you don't know me, so I could see how my words could be interpenetrated as arrogance.

I can say with all confidence that I am far from arrogant, but you shouldnt take my word for it, take the word of any of my loyal customers, or come see for yourself.

This thread has drifted way off topic, but then again, this IS General Off-Topic

[Good_Steward]

Lord. I get to see both sides of this crap, and trust me, it is crap. I am a developmental engineer for an R&D company in Chattanooga. We are asked for estimates for our services and have customer samples sent to us constantly for treatability tests (always wanted for free, I might add). They are happy with our service, and then want to whine and bitch about the price. Simple solution has been given. This is our price based on a myriad of factors that basically boils down to our cost for materials and labor to set up treatment systems plus travel and a small profit, that's the best we can do. As a customer, I want the best deal I can get, but I also take into consideration what the product normally sells for in the area. If I can get a deal that's reasonable, I buy. If not, I don't. No bitching from me, because while the customer, me, may not always right, I do have the power to spend my money elsewhere. I'll give Joe my business for one simple reason:

My first time in his shop.

He made a great impression on me. I was waiting for another TGO member to meet up with me to buy his rifle, and Joe's shop just happened to be halfway in between our locations. The biggest part of it, though, was a scope that I still want, a beautiful Nikon that I just couldn't afford to buy since I was buying my third rifle in three weeks (as well as for the sake of my marriage after buying 3 rifles in 3 weeks ). Anyway, Joe, already knowing my play money was spent, offered the scope to me at a discounted price. Like I said, I couldn't afford the scope (1K+), but I did buy an Otis cleaning kit from him, because as cool as he had been to me I couldn't not buy anything since I used his parking lot as a gun counter. I can say that every gun shop open in Chattanooga right would have been dicks about the whole situation. I would also be willing to bet that a lot of the vendors on here would have been cool as well, and I hope to visit all of 'em before I die lol

By the way Joe, speaking of gun prices and haggling, make sure to PM a price for the H15's to me when you guys get that squared away.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Good_Steward

[Guest Mugster]

Gun dealers need to make money. If they can make 20-50% over cost for a gun I say let them, whatever their marketing strategy is. But don't buy the gun and then whine about it. Its like these guys posting walmart stories of all the bs they had to endure for a box of 9mm ammo. Geebus, just don't go there in the first place.

What really gets me a laugh on used gun pricing is 3 things.

1. People list their gun on the interwebz and then whine because they can't get their money out of it. I suspect momma ain't happy or the credit card is due.

2. Dealers that hold high pricing with an established market value well below their price tag. And then they wonder why the guns ain't selling and they go broke. Or they offer a "snide comment" to me when I make a cash offer. Gun shows are real bad about this, but shops do it all the time too. So after 25 years of gun show shopping, excuse me if I laugh at your offer.

3. And 3...I've seen numerous used guns lately sold or listed for well above what I could go buy a new one for. Shrug.

Guns and gun buying and selling may be the last of the free markets in the whole country. Let the buyer and seller beware, imo.

[Superman]

To those that think people shouldn't mark prices up more than a few dollars- You don't want to know what kind of markup you pay on a different service, not gun related.

Those that say customer service isn't worth paying a little extra for are crazy. I can get great prices on new guns without leaving manchester, but the customer service sucks. Customer service at Hero Gear is outstanding, especially with Joe. I was there awhile back and talked with him about the FS2000 and a SBR AR. I wasn't sure which to get and told him I couldn't afford either right now. But he still answered all my questions and I asked about firing the FS2000 in the prone position because I read somewhere it didn't work well because of the design of the gun. No sooner than I finished the question he grabs the gun off the rack and hits the floor.

The shop that pays 500 for a new gun from their supplier and sells it for 550 are high volume or will never get ahead. Or maybe they are paying their employees minimum wage. Or selling guns isn't their main source of income. I don't think $700 is out of line. To keep good hard working knowledgable people you have to pay them and to pay them you have to make money. If you don't they will go elsewhere.

[Guest forklift]

Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but guess which store is more likely to get my business.

+1 baby

[Guest mikedwood]

I think the thread was seriously derailed from the OP's original intent.

That said, I think most of the vendors on TNgunowners are excellent. I'd certainly include Herogear in the excellent gundealer list. I wish I was closer. Would love to venture into G&L as well.

I do think Hero Gear swag should be included with the purchase of a new or used firearm cause that's some cool looking stuff. I wear my Hero Gear hat a lot and need a new one.

To what I think the OP was talking about:

For the most part I just buy from a dealer, if I find a gun I want at a price that I believe it's worth. I usually lurk in the used section.

I'm not wild about buying from someone I don't know off some random classified board.

I don't mind buying off the TGO board. I feel pretty safe doing that and have gotten some pretty good deals and met some great people buying out of the TGO classifieds. The good deals go fast usually.

I will be a benefactor again when I get off my butt and sell some more stuff on Ebay. (more so I can get in on some of the special deals Joe offers than anything else, besides just supporting the site of course)

It is more true than not around Knoxville, if you buy a new firearm and have a problem you are on your own. It happened to me twice. I didn't like it. ( neither time was it a TGO vendor, and both were cheap guns a Keltec P11 and a Bersa Thunder). They wanted to wash thier hands of it real fast and they did. I think they should have at least listened better or something, cause I have bought more than one gun after that and none of them at those places.

As a customer buying guns I know I'm not always right. Sometimes I don't have a clue. Sometimes I need help and guidance. I like a store that will listen and guide me. Mike at Austin's in Oak Ridge is very good at that.

Now, if I buy a gun from a store I get it from one I trust, or if I get a used gun it's gonna be a deal, (but not so cheap it might be stolen) and I only get them from someone I know or know of from here.

Also on here I take into account the stuff that goes with it. Holsters, mags ammo it all adds up quick buying it individually. Even if you don't need a couple of things it might be good trade foder.