First loads done. Questions for those who know.

[9teeneleven]

OK, I've loaded and shot my first 70 rounds of .45 acp (my first loads of anything). The first 10 I loaded with 5.1gr of Win231 and 230gr hornady FMJ bullets. These went bang, but didn't cycle the action in my p220. It seems that the more I read about using Win231 for 230gr .45, 5.1gr seems to be a middle of the road load, but it didn't work for me. The next 10 I loaded at 5.5gr with the same bullet. Much better results, but this seems to be a hot round by some books and a middle of the road round by others. I don't have a chronograph, so I don't know the speed. These did seem to be just as accurate as any factory ammo when I shot them at 10yards.

Looking for some feedback on these. I loaded 50 more and shot them. Everything went well.

One specific question I have about these Hornady bullets is that the list a max C.O.L. of 1.230 . For a round nose bullet, this is pretty short, no? My blazer brass rounds are 1.265. Why are these hornady bullets listed so short? When I bump them up to 1.250, they chamber and still headspace on the cartridge. Am I going to run into any problems if I lengthen the rounds like this?

[Photoguy67]

well everything I find, I loaned my Hornady manual to my step dad and don't have it right now, 5.1 of 231 should be a pretty stiff load. But making it longer actually reduces pressure. IIRC you can load them as long as you want, at least as long as they still feed. Going the other direction, the smaller you make them the higher pressure, also I would check your crimps, that can have an impact on pressures.

Cheers,

Billy

[glockster157]

I have been shooting 231 for years in my 45acp's, 9mm's and 38's. I shoot 5.2 to 5.4 with a 225 lead truncated bullets. I don't think 5.5 is way hot, a lot depends on the gun. I have had 45's that I had to push the charge a little to get velocity. Brass and primer can also make a difference. If you are not getting any pressure signs, really flat primers, cratering around firing pin strike, brass flowing, etc. I would not worry about it. I have used 6.0 with my 200 lead semi wadcutters,

As to length, pretty much best to keep it short enough to easily fit in a 1911 magazine not a Sig 220 mag. Or make it the same dimensions as a factory cartridge is usually a good fall back position. To really raise pressures you would have to seat the bullet pretty deep, one other draw back to deep seating is feeding problems and it can make it harder to crimp properly.

BTW, HP38 is the exact same powder as 231. I verified that with Hogdon.

[TNTitan]

The average Powder Weight in Grains for the 230 FMJ is 5.679 over the following documented sources.

Type.Grains.Powder.Spd.OAL. Primer.Source

FMJ 8.5 Blue Dot 900 fps 1.19" Fed 150 Alliant

FMJ 8.5 blue dot 900 fps 1.190" CCI LP guest

FMJ 5 Bullseye 905 fps 1.19" Fed 150 Alliant

FMJ 5.4 Bullseye 854 fps 1.268" CCI-300 LP guest

FMJ 5 Bullseye Unknown Win LP guest

FMJ 5.1 Bullseye 792 fps Win LPM guest

FMJ 4 CLAYS 732 fps 1.2" Fed 150 Hodgdon

FMJ 4 Clays 668 fps 1.260" Win LP guest

FMJ 4.2 Clays 751 fps 1.260" Fed LP guest

FMJ 5.4 een Dot 920 fps 1.19" Fed 150 Alliant

FMJ 6.2 Herco 890 fps 1.19" Fed 150 Alliant

FMJ 5.3 HP38 832 fps 1.2" Fed 150 Hodgdon

FMJ 8.2 HS6 825 fps 1.2" Fed 150 Hodgdon

FMJ 4 n310 Unknown Win LP guest

FMJ 6.1 No. 2 874 fps 1.25" Rem 2-1/2 Accurate

FMJ 8.7 No. 5 927 fps 1.25" Rem 2-1/2 Accurate

FMJ 7.2 Power Pistol 895 fps 1.19" Fed 150 Alliant

FMJ 5 Red Dot 910 fps 1.19" Fed 150 Alliant

FMJ 5.5 S1000 848 fps 1.25" Rem 2-1/2 Accurate

FMJ 4.8 Titeoup 818 fps 1.2" Fed 150 Hodgdon

FMJ 4.7 Titeoup Unknown 1.245" Win LP guest

FMJ 4.8 Titeoup 820 fps Win LP guest

FMJ 4.6 titeoup Unknown CCI LP guest

FMJ 4.6 titeoup 741 fps 1.260" Win LP guest

FMJ 6 Unique 895 fps 1.19" Fed 150 Alliant

FMJ 6.5 unique Unknown Win LP guest

FMJ 6 Universal 853 fps 1.2" Fed 150 Hodgdon

FMJ 6.5 vihtavuori N 340 Unknown CCI LP guest

FMJ 4.5 VV N100 825 fps 1.25" Rem 2-1/2 Accurate

FMJ 5.5 VV N320 898 fps 1.26" Vihtavuori

FMJ 6.8 VV N340 974 fps 1.26" Vihtavuori

FMJ 7.6 VV N350 978 fps 1.26" Vihtavuori

FMJ 5.4 w231 Unknown 1.23" Win LP guest

FMJ 5 W231 Unknown CCI LP guest

FMJ 5.7 Win 231 830 fps Winchester

FMJ 5 Winchester 231 825 fps 1.285" Win LP guest

FMJ 6.6 WSF 885 fps Winchester

FMJ 4.9 WST 800 fps Winchester

FMJ 4.7 WST Unknown 1.260" Win LP guest

-Handloads.com

[9teeneleven]

Should I be crimping a FMJ load? The ABC's of reloading said that no crimp is used on a .45 load. Bullets seem to be well seated.

[USMCJG]

Should I be crimping a FMJ load? The ABC's of reloading said that no crimp is used on a .45 load. Bullets seem to be well seated.

I don't truly crimp .45ACP reloads. I just "crimp" enough to remove any belling of the case mouth left over from expanding, but not enough to really crimp the case to the bullet.

[musicman]

I'm not a 1911 owner yet, but what spring weights do you have running in that gun? If you like something not as hot, go with a lighter spring to get good cycling with the lighter powered loads.

Enjoy!

[Mrgreenmachine]

You do want to crimp. If you don't you may start running into problems with setback as the cartridge loads from the magazine into the chamber. Your .45 die seating die should have the ability to crimp. Just for reference I've used what Lee calls 5.1g of 231(used the dipper that came with my die set) behind 230g hardball and had no trouble out of my sig 220. I shoot lead these days so I have not shot this load recently but my last notes said it was snappy and performed well.

[Good_Steward]

I agree with these guys, you don't want a "crimp". Just enough to take any flare out of the brass will suffice. A load you should look at is 8.7gr of AA #5 under a 230 grain. I've used a ton of different powders for .45, and this seems to be the best all around load.

[Guest Crunchman]

Note on crimp: Do not use the roll crimp like that used on revolver rounds. Use the taper crimp. I bought Lee factory crimp dies for all my semi-auto rounds and use that as the last extra step in the reloading process.

For my 5" 1911s, I use 5.2 gr. of Win 231 or HP-38, WLP primers, 230 gr. Hornady FMJs, and set at 1.25 COAL. That gives me an average of 820 FPS and (if I'm having a good day) 5 shot groups around .75 inch @ 20 yards, rested on a sand bag.

[9teeneleven]

Thanks for all the pointers. I may retry that lighter load. Something I have found with the lee auto disk measures is that the first two and the last two loads that is gives are always off. Sometimes way off. That may have been where my initial problems with cycling were coming from.

[musicman]

One more suggestion... if you have the funds available, I sincerely suggest getting the Lee PRO Auto Disk powder measure. I had the regular auto disk as well, and it tendsto be more inaccurate, as well as binds up really bad with some powders leading to light charges or no powder being dropped at all in some extreme cases.

The pro auto disk has an elastoer wiper that does a pretty good job at stopping that propbelm, and has been much more consistent for me.

[9teeneleven]

I believe it is the pro that I have. It's the one with the round powder holder that came with the lee pro 1000.

[musicman]

oh yea.. that's what you have already. Sorry! Well.... nevermind me then!

[Guest Mugster]

I'll go out on a limb and say that your sig has a heavy spring in it designed to handle +P ammo. A pistol is first and foremost a mechanical device that is tuned to handle a range of ammunition loading in its caliber. It could be that it just won't handle the starter loads, even though they are within sight of SAAMI pressure specs for .45acp.

Both of my 1911 style handguns have 19 pound recoil springs that were factory fitted. The old GI pistol had a 16 pound spring specification, if I'm not mistaken. So they operate well with ammo that is loaded quite a bit hotter than the old 830 +/- 15 fps from the old USGI specification.

.45 acp is so old, with modern powders and barrels it has alot of headroom both for improvement and as a safety margin. Its a real good choice for a first time handloader, imo.

You should get a chrono, imo. They only run about $100 and its really the only way to know whats going on with your loads. Most people are really bummed when they find out that +P+ 9mm ammo only runs 1000fps from their keltec with the 1" barrel.

One last tip. Increasing your crimp can increase the pressure a bit. I see it more with rifle ammo, but it works with .45acp too. Playing with the crimp can also increase or decrease accuracy. I've never gotten too much out of bullet seating depth in terms of accuracy. I've found that generally a bullet will either shoot or not, and that seating depth can fine tune it but thats about it.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Mugster

[9teeneleven]

Thanks Mugster.