What grain bullet?

[Guest page90lx]

Well it looks like im going to have to let my daughter use my ar to hunt with me this year but I have no ideal what grain bullet to use on deer (didnt buy it to hunt with) so any suggestions would be appreciated

Oh yeah barrel is 1-9 twist 20inch.

(Yeah I know its misspelled)

Edited August 12, 2009 by page90lx
misspelling

[TNTitan]

I dont think that is going to be a good deer gun, unless she is a really good shot and you can get very close to the deer. Otherwise.. could just wound the animal. That said - check these out:

Winchester Super-X Ammunition 223 Remington 64 Grain

[nightrunner]

i watched my buddy first-hand take two different deer on two different occasions with his bushmaster AR-15 A2 w/ 16" barrel. using soft-point brown bear ammo, it left a nasty hole coming out the other side. one was about 100yards the other was at 220 yards. a .223 is very capable of dropping the deer around here.

[Guest TurboniumOxide]

Brotherman, it is spelled boolit, ok?

I have seen them taken with a single .223 between the ribs. But physics and bone structure can screw ya.

I am banking on high mass, high velocity myself.

[Good_Steward]

Personally, contrary to some, I do not believe that a .223 is adequate for deer.

[nightrunner]

i had the same view until i saw what a soft-point expands out to. however i personally would use a larger caliber myself like a .30-06 but my buddy is small-framed and getting older and doesnt like shooting large calibers anymore

[Guest GunTroll]

I assume TN dosen't have a caliber restriction for large game?

[Guest Muttling]

Just because Tennessee decided to allow 5.56 for deer doesn't make it smart. She had better be damned good at getting her round on target or you're gonna spend a LOT of time tryng to follow a blood trail.

Go to a pawn shop and buy her a decent (but inexpensive) weapon in the .30 caliber range instead. There are MANY to choose from that will do a far better job.

[nightrunner]

I assume TN dosen't have a caliber restriction for large game?

i believe they specify that it must be centerfire, but other than that, none that i am aware of

[Guest Mugster]

They changed it a couple years ago. I'm not sure on anything below .22 but .22 centerfire is definitely legal.

Thus my major interest in the sierra 65 gameking, the winchester 64 ppt, and the speer 70 semi-spitzer. Of the 3, the sierra looks the best so far. I have had no luck loading the nosler 60 in .223.

I have no experience with it, i used a .308 exclusively last year and struck out when i had the .223 out the year before. Most of my deer have been taken with a .30-30/.444/7 mag over the years. I did call sierra and talk to one of their guys today about the 65gr gameking. They say anything up to 200 pounds.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Mugster

[Guest ADAM]

remember shot placement is key. let her shoot and get comfortable and that is plenty of gun.

[Warbird]

i had the same view until i saw what a soft-point expands out to. however i personally would use a larger caliber myself like a .30-06 but my buddy is small-framed and getting older and doesnt like shooting large calibers anymore

Just because one person can do it doesn't make it smart for another. Especially a novice shooter/hunter.

There have been African elephants taken with small caliber bullets. And many died saying if it was good for ne it's good for another.

No this doesn't compare to elephants or any dangerous game, but it illustrates a point to the extreme. An inferior round can still kill with a good shooter. A less experienced shooter should use a somewhat more powerful rifle/round.

A 30 caliber is unnecessary. My pick would be a .270. Then let her get comfortable wit it and get some practice time.

[Guest page90lx]

I appreciate all the replies, but this is for a 11 year old girl that could not handle the recoil of a 7mm08(smallest I have) and wants to hunt with dad, I dont like using it either (.223) but she can handle the recoil fine and I will be there with the ole handi-rifle:)

[ShaunM]

I know a lot of people who started hunting with a 223 after the state made it legal to use and they have had no problems. ( I have taken a few myself when I had an AR). Yeah I was a bit hesitant about it but now I feel comfortable using one. I don't think the state would have made it legal if they felt it couldn't hervest a deer. Good ammo and shot placement is the key but hey that goes for almost all guns.

[Good_Steward]

I agree. shot placement is key. But, shot placement with a .223 is very very very critical. Remember, this is not paper targets, but a tough animal. .243 is not much recoil and packs a helluva lot more wallop when it hits. I think that's probably the bare minimum I'll use for my son when he starts. I think somewhere along the lines of a .257 is a perfect combination of minimal recoil and killing effinciency.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Good_Steward

[Guest 1shot]

I assume that you are talking factory ammo for a 223 for deer hunting. Either the Winchester 64 Gr. Power Point or the Remington 62 gr Core-Lock Bonded bullet ammo or Cor-Bon 53 or 62 gr DPX Barns Triple Shock bullet or Federal Premium 60 gr Vital-Shok Nosler Partition bullet works well on deer. If you hand load or know somebody that does have them work you up an accurate load with either the Nosler 60 gr Partition bullet or Barns 53 or 62 gr triple-Shock X-Bullet. Take ONLY broadside heart lung shots and she should do OK. Teach the youngster that just because you see a deer does not mean that you need to take just any old shot. If the proper shot does not present itself let it walk.

[Guest 308Phantom]

I would recommend the barnes triple shock ammo in the 62/4 gr stuff. The barnes will expand and penetrate. The 223 loaded with barnes bullets is the best you can do with a 223 round for deer in my opinion.

[I_Like_Pie]

Law changed 4 years ago...anything that is centerfire is fair for hunting. Used to be where everything under .240 was illegal.

That being said.....223 is adequate, but marginal unless (big unless) you happen to be using the latest top shelf bonded bullets....this is why they changed the law.

[Curiousgb]

How old is you daughter? Maybe a nice Marlin 1894c in 357. I have one and it is a sweet shooter. Very low recoil.

[DaveS]

With all my experience with deer hunting (and I don't claim to know every thing), but I wouldn't let a new young hunter use an AR to hunt deer, unless it was at least .308. Does the law call for a minimum of .24 cal or is that "old" news? Anyways....I wouldn't do it! My little little grandsons use a 7mm/08 and my 12 year old daughter uses a Ruger .308...all good for the kids!

[my82cam]

223 is just fine...go shoot a half inch steel plate with a 30-06 and than shoot it with a .223 the crater is almost the exact same with the 223 going through the plate everynow and than. you are just fine with the ar and have fun!

[Warbird]

223 is just fine...go shoot a half inch steel plate with a 30-06 and than shoot it with a .223 the crater is almost the exact same with the 223 going through the plate everynow and than. you are just fine with the ar and have fun!

The 223 is not even close to the energy of a 30-6, less than half. Not a good comparison. The OP seems to want people to validate his thoughts on the AR 223. His mind is made up, that's fine. However, the 223 is marginal for deer, even for experienced hunters. But, they understand placement. It isn't a good choice for a beginner. A 243 or 270 is really a much better choice for a beginner. IMO it is inhumane to shoot something with a marginal round which will only leave an animal wounded and slow death unless the shot is right, but thats just me.

[Good_Steward]

The 223 is not even close to the energy of a 30-6, less than half. Not a good comparison. The OP seems to want people to validate his thoughts on the AR 223. His mind is made up, that's fine. However, the 223 is marginal for deer, even for experienced hunters. But, they understand placement. It isn't a good choice for a beginner. A 243 or 270 is really a much better choice for a beginner. IMO it is inhumane to shoot something with a marginal round which will only leave an animal wounded and slow death unless the shot is right, but thats just me.

That's the point I wanted make make, Warbird. You want a round that's going to cause as much damage as possible for a fast, humane death. A worthy adversary deserves at least that much respect, and a .223 just ain't it.

[Guest m&p40]

Dont be ridiculous, if its adequate for the government to kill humans with, its adequate for me to kill deer with, at least the deer get hit with hunting ammo, humans get hit with full metal jackets, check it out, they say not to shoot deer with full metal jackets because its not humane, but its against the geneva convention to use anything but a full metal jacket on a human, go figure

Edited August 16, 2009 by m&p40

[deerslayer]

I have a friend who has killed a deer with his AR, but I wouldn't try it. Why hunt with something that may kill a deer? Deer are tougher than humans, so the using-what-the-government-recommends-for-killing-humans philosophy is invalid, IMHO. Shot placement on deer is critical with any caliber, but even more so with a .223. Think of it as shooting skeet with a 12 guage vs. shooting skeet with a .410. Which is more challenging? The consequences are more serious than a missed clay. Leaving a wounded animal to die slowly and rot may discourage your daughter from ever hunting again. If she can't handle a .30-30, .243, or 7.62X39, I'd wait about taking her.