News: California Microstamping Law... the death of reloading?

[TGO David]

Have the rest of you seen this idiocy yet? California legislators have proposed a law that will require components inside of new handguns that will stamp each fired casing with the handgun's serial number.

This will be the death of reloading if it happens.

Spent shell casings would be imprinted

By James P. Sweeney

COPLEY NEWS SERVICE

September 11, 2007

SACRAMENTO – The Assembly sent the governor a bill yesterday requiring that the next generation of semiautomatic handguns stamp identifying serial numbers on spent shell casings.

The legislation that would establish the first law of its kind in the nation could have a lasting impact on the war on crime, according to backers. But the limited application of the bill does not figure to be felt for several years.

The bill covers only new models or brands of semiautomatic handguns approved for sale in the state after Jan. 1, 2010. That excludes nearly 1,300 different semiautomatics already sold in the state. Revolvers, which do not discharge shell casings, also are not covered.

Nonetheless, supporters said tagging microscopic codes on ammunition fired from the guns of choice for gang members and violent criminals could prove invaluable to law enforcement.

“Chiefs of police from Stockton to San Diego, from Fresno to National City, 65 of them standing together in support of this bill because they see the potential to solve gun crime,” said Assemblyman Mike Feuer, a Los Angeles Democrat who carried the measure, AB 1471.

Feuer said the bill is being watched across the country, all the way to Washington, D.C., where Congress is weighing a similar proposal.

But in a passionate debate between gun-control Democrats and gun-rights Republicans, critics dismissed the technology as unreliable, expensive and easily thwarted. They warned that it would drive up the price of guns and drive manufacturers out of the state.

“There is nothing like this is any other state, and no other state is seriously considering this because they know it doesn't work,” said Lawrence Keane, general counsel of the National Shooting Sports Council, an industry trade association.

The Assembly approved the bill on a 43-29 vote that fell largely along party lines. The Senate narrowly passed the bill last week. All involved are now closely watching for a signal from Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has taken no position on the bill.

Gun-control backers have been pushing the concept, known as microstamping, for several years as an alternative to ballistic imaging, a much more complex system that relies on individual markings on bullets.

Feuer attempted to shift the debate away from the traditional gun-control rhetoric, insisting his bill would not restrict anyone's access or ability to use firearms.

“This is not a gun-control measure,” he said. “This is a public-safety measure.”

The legislation would require new semiautomatics to be manufactured with firing pins or some other internal part etched with an individual serial number. Feuer said gun makers have said the identifying parts can be added for as little as $1 per gun.

But Keane said it would require an overhaul of the manufacturing process and add up to $200 per gun. After all that, the internal code could be easily sanded off.

Feuer staged a demonstration of the technology last month for journalists and some of Los Angeles' ranking law enforcement officials. The test used a microstamped weapon that had been fired more than 2,600 times.

“Everyone there could determine which gun fired the bullets,” Feuer said.

More than 60 percent of homicides in California are committed with handguns and about 70 percent of the handguns sold in the state are semiautomatics, according to a legislative analysis of the bill.

Moreover, Feuer said, his measure could help deal with so-called “straw purchasers,” those who buy guns legally for those who cannot.

Opponents portrayed the legislation as another assault on the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms. Those who live a life of crime typically do not buy weapons legally and certainly wouldn't be foolish enough to use guns with coded firing pins, they said.

“There are so many ways to game this technology, that's the difficulty,” said Assemblyman Rick Keene, R-Chico. “This is not ready for prime time.”

To those that invoked the Second Amendment, Assemblyman Sandré Swanson offered up another passage from the Constitution.

“This is about life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” said Swanson, a Democrat who represents Oakland, where 148 people were killed last year and 93 so far this year.

As the bill moved through both houses, the legislation was amended to address criticism that it relied on patented technology available only from a single source. That supplier, NanoMark Technologies, has agreed to provide the technology for free to California and other states.

The measure also requires the attorney general to verify that the technology is made available to more than one manufacturer, Feuer said.

[Guest GT_Rat]

Yeah that sounds completely useless. Just another serial number that criminals will grind off the gun anyway.

[molonlabetn]

Actually... I can see criminals perusing fired brass at the firing range to leave at their crime scene, to throw off the authorities.

[saintsfanbrian]

And here I thought that all bullet casings already had unique identifiers. Such as the dimple on the primer where the firing pin hits it. The marks left by the extractor. Etc. Not to mention, the bullet itself has identifying marks. So, lets make one more hoop for gun manufacturers to go through in order to sell their perfectly legal as designed product in one state. I would love to see more manufacturers do what Barrett did. Stop selling to the police in California. Stop selling at all in California. See how their tax base leaves when they can't purchase ANY guns in that state.

[molonlabetn]

It's only the death of reloading if new components are impossible to purchase. Seems to me that the only effect will be upon the aquisition of new pistols, in a few years. There are plenty of used semi-autos on the market there, and plenty of replacement firing-pins too, I'm sure. This law will only serve to increase production costs. There will never be a crime solved, or a life saved as a result of this regulation. New laws only define new crimes, not solve existing ones.

[creeky]

So the sell of brass catchers will go up? Is that what I am hearing?

So we abandon Ballistic tests in favor of brass casings that can be picked up?

Hahahaha!!!! What logic! LOL!!!!

[SkWaShDeM]

I predict a significant increase in revolver sales inside the People's Democratic Republic of California.

This just gives even more material for "California Approved" gun jokes. It's the only place on earth I've ever seen these:

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZC-C15RM4FT.asp

[waynesan]

If this law is signed by the governator you can be sure more assinine legislation will soon follow. They cannot ban guns outright so they are pursuing the course of "death by a thousand cuts". Put up so many insane and worthless restrictions that eventually they have effectively killed gun ownership.

I predict if this gets signed in as law, it won't be long before all guns will be required to have a video camera attached, pointed at the shooter, transmitting data to the police so they can have a recording of who pulled the trigger. Never mind the criminal can wear a disguise or shoot from the hip and prevent his image from being transmitted, if it just helps solve one crime it will be worth it. ( I hope I didn't just give some anti idiot an idea he hadn't thought of).

[TGO David]

This just gives even more material for "California Approved" gun jokes. It's the only place on earth I've ever seen these:

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_carbon15_AZC-C15RM4FT.asp

I see your top-loader and raise you this...

A guy over on the XDTalk forum posted that and said it's one of the ways around the Commiefornia restriction. It doesn't have a pistol grip, so he is therefore able to have a detachable magazine. Personally, I'd throw myself in front of a freight train if I had to live in a state that had absurd laws like that.

PS: I think Joe sells them down at Hero Gear.

[bteague2]

"The Big One" can't come soon enough when California keeps introducing things like this. And my respect for bushmaster just dropped a little.

[SkWaShDeM]

I see your top-loader and raise you this...

A guy over on the XDTalk forum posted that and said it's one of the ways around the Commiefornia restriction. It doesn't have a pistol grip, so he is therefore able to have a detachable magazine. Personally, I'd throw myself in front of a freight train if I had to live in a state that had absurd laws like that.

PS: I think Joe sells them down at Hero Gear.

That's awesome.

I hope Joe doesn't sell them unless the customer's from communist territory... It's heretical to have one of those when you can own the real version for less money.

[Guest Len]

Never mind the criminal can wear a disguise or shoot from the hip and prevent his image from being transmitted, if it just helps solve one crime it will be worth it.

+1

This is exactly the point I wished to make. It is very likely that some (probably very few, but a number greater than zero) crimes will be solved using this method if its passed into law. But does that justify the existence of the law? One of the founding principles of this country is the "err on the side of liberty" doctrine. A law is only good/constitutional, the theory goes, if the amount of individual liberty it takes away is justified by the amount of common good it provides. If this law helps solve a crime or two a year, is it worth it in terms of the liberty it takes away from the citizens of California to own firearms? I think not. I use the "err on the side of liberty" test when I decide whether to support various laws/bills.

[molonlabetn]

+1

This is exactly the point I wished to make. It is very likely that some (probably very few, but a number greater than zero) crimes will be solved using this method if its passed into law. But does that justify the existence of the law? One of the founding principles of this country is the "err on the side of liberty" doctrine. A law is only good/constitutional, the theory goes, if the amount of individual liberty it takes away is justified by the amount of common good it provides. If this law helps solve a crime or two a year, is it worth it in terms of the liberty it takes away from the citizens of California to own firearms? I think not. I use the "err on the side of liberty" test when I decide whether to support various laws/bills.

I'd be surprised if many criminal shootings are committed with legally-acquired, registered handguns... So IF they actually get a hit on a spent casing at a murder scene, it will most likely point to a gun which was reported stolen years prior. Criminals are dumb, and I hate to underestimate that, but how likely is it really for an unstable person to pass a background check, wait the 3 days, and take their new (microstamp equipped) handgun over to blow Johnny's head off? Besides that, what's to stop the perp from picking up their brass? Or, worse yet, leaving someone elses' microstamped brass there to be found...

This one has all the signs of being regulation for the sake of regulation... not to save lives. It would be more effective to require serial numbers on the base of bullets themselves (same # on all bullets in the box), which could at least be traced to the original retail buyer via DL# or something.

(not that I'd advocate that as very effective, either...)

[fury2neon]

Maryland used to have a law where every firearm sold in the state a fired casing had to be on file for it with purchasers name, address, first born, etc..

You know how many crimes this law help solve... ZERO.

[Guest Len]

Oh, I generally agree. But any number greater than zero serves as justification to some. I imagine "crimes of passion" (committed on impulse) might be committed with legal weapons. I also imagine that in most such cases there are mountains of other evidence to assist in solving the crime.

The quest to find "the smoking gun" as it were leads us to some strange places. What seems clear to me is that we need to deal with criminal behavior on the front end, not after the fact. Restricting access to tools that may be used to aid in crime seems to me like not teaching what the accelerator pedal does in driver's ed class. You wont get as many speeding tickets, but it is not a useful strategy overall.

I'd be surprised if many criminal shootings are committed with legally-acquired, registered handguns... So IF they actually get a hit on a spent casing at a murder scene, it will most likely point to a gun which was reported stolen years prior. Criminals are dumb, and I hate to underestimate that, but how likely is it really for an unstable person to pass a background check, wait the 3 days, and take their new (microstamp equipped) handgun over to blow Johnny's head off? Besides that, what's to stop the perp from picking up their brass? Or, worse yet, leaving someone elses' microstamped brass there to be found...

This one has all the signs of being regulation for the sake of regulation... not to save lives. It would be more effective to require serial numbers on the base of bullets themselves (same # on all bullets in the box), which could at least be traced to the original retail buyer via DL# or something.

(not that I'd advocate that as very effective, either...)

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

LOL Are you serious!? We all know criminals always use unmodified totally legal firearms!

[Guest Phantom6]

Archie Bunker said it best years ago when, while trying to talk Mike and Gloria out of moving to Kalifornia he said, "God is just waiting for one more nut to move to California and then he's gonna lop the whole thing off into the ocean, there."

If Archie was right and I believe in this case he was, apparantly the nut quota has yet to be met which certainly attests to the infinite capability for forgiveness of a loving God but with the passage of laws like this they will certainly be sending a message that it is about time for the "Big One".

If the microstamp is added to the firearm then it can certainly be filed off the striker that impresses it into the case or at the very least obscured. Serial numbers on guns have not slowed their illegal use, neither will identifiers stamped on the case of the ammunition it fires.

How could so many people be so ignorant!