Glocks and things like kabooms, firing out of battery, etc...

[molonlabetn]

A P220 Carry SAS would be nice... I can honestly say that I would take one of those for daily carry before a 1911.

[Guest Fred LE FI]

Some dolts think I'm a dolt.

I'm actually as critical of the guns I carry as the ones I don't.

And some highly competent and experienced people who have made guns and shooting their livelihood - even some who who have engaged in and survived close range pistol combat - might think you a dolt.

While you may be "critical of the guns you carry", you are ridiculously strident in your criticism of Glocks; it is your trademark on this forum.

Just look to your demonstrably false signature line. If Glocks were poorly designed or genuinely unsafe, they would have become a target of the antis and personal injury lawyers and put out of business in the US.

They also would not be the weapon of choice for countless armed professionals and savvy civilians.

I personally despise pistols with slide-mounted levers, but I realize that my choice is valid for me and someone else's is valid for them.

Fred

[Marswolf]

Well Fred, we'll just have to disagree. You think Glocks are wonderful for some reason and I think that from an engineering standpoint that they are poorly designed and unsafe. Accurate - Reliable - and Unsafe.

They are the choice for countable numbers of professionals because they are reliable, accurate, relatively inexpensive compared to other duty-type weapons when bought in numbers on a contract, don't have a safety to confuse the situation in an a adrenaline flow and very importantly for PR reasons, don't have a visible cocked hammer that scares the brain-dead public. You might also be surprised how many professional departments are moving away from Glocks. The professional progression around here seems to be from Rugers (in small departments where the officers buy their own duty weapons) to Glocks to H&Ks. Even relatively small departments around here that provide duty weapons are moving to H&Ks. The old circus trick of throwing the Glock into the parking lot and running over it doesn't sell as many Glocks these days. Yes, I actually saw a Glock rep do that several years ago. Departments talk to each other and read the problems other officers are having with their service weapons.

"Savvy civilians" who buy them tend to do so because that what the cops carry.

As I've said many times, Glocks are perfectly acceptable as LE duty weapons. They aren't the best choice if money is less of a concern, but they are fine. But IMO the "public" (LEOs are "civilians") who use Glocks should rethink their choice.

I know you think I have a bias against Glock. Why I would have that, since I've owned two, is beyond my understanding. What I have are conclusions based upon analysis of the mechanics of the weapon not some sort of irrational feel that I just don't like it.

I don't know why Glock hasn't had a super suit yet. Jennings was sued out of existence for working like a Glock. My guess is that attorneys want to go after companies that do not have sufficient resources to drag out appeals forever. Such is contingency law. But that's just a guess.

[TGO David]

A P220 Carry SAS would be nice... I can honestly say that I would take one of those for daily carry before a 1911.

If my P2000 doesn't suit me after I test it tonight with the lighter LEM trigger springs, I may end up with a P220 Carry of some design.

[molonlabetn]

If my P2000 doesn't suit me after I test it tonight with the lighter LEM trigger springs, I may end up with a P220 Carry of some design.

Joe has a SAO P220 Carry up at Hero Gear for a really good price. It's a bi-tone.

[TGO David]

Joe has a SAO P220 Carry up at Hero Gear for a really good price. It's a bi-tone.

And I happen to be going there tomorrow... and will have tasted the "improved" P2000 by that time.

[Marswolf]

As usual, I' have to be a ray of sunshine.

I had a P220 and got rid of it. Nothing horrible about it, it just didn't work for me.

[TGO David]

As usual, I' have to be a ray of sunshine.

I had a P220 and got rid of it. Nothing horrible about it, it just didn't work for me.

I've fired a few. Really liked them but didn't favor the DAO. Since SIG has a SAO version of the P220 Carry now, that almost hits my soft spot for the 1911s.

[Urse]

There is a Sig P220 Carry SAO in my near future also. I have had the opportunity to shoot one and me likey.

[TGO David]

There is a Sig P220 Carry SAO in my near future also. I have had the opportunity to shoot one and me likey.

Ok, I just changed my mind...

[Marswolf]

The one I had was SA/DA and in the LE box. I think that meant you got an extra magazine.

It was accurate enough and reliable but there was a disturbance in the force and I just couldn't get confident with it.

I understand why some people would want a DAO, but not a SAO trigger on a carry handgun. How about educating me?

[Urse]

Now why you breaking my balls? I did not even mention Glock superiority.

[Marswolf]

[K191145]

I will likely get another 1911 some day when finances permit, perhaps a no frills Springfield Mil Spec and start from there. A buddy of mine really likes the Ruger P series autos, I'm not at all familiar with them. Anyone else like them?

[The Rabbi]

I will likely get another 1911 some day when finances permit, perhaps a no frills Springfield Mil Spec and start from there. A buddy of mine really likes the Ruger P series autos, I'm not at all familiar with them. Anyone else like them?

They work reliably and probably never break. Ever. And pretty inexpensive.

That's the best I can say about them. Otherwise they are clunky and ugly and very bulky. The steel versions are very heavy.

Ruger never could come up with a good carry gun. Part of it was Bill Ruger Sr's famous dictum: No honest man needs a gun smaller than a canned ham.

[K191145]

They work reliably and probably never break. Ever. And pretty inexpensive.

That's the best I can say about them. Otherwise they are clunky and ugly and very bulky. The steel versions are very heavy.

Ruger never could come up with a good carry gun. Part of it was Bill Ruger Sr's famous dictum: No honest man needs a gun smaller than a canned ham.

Well, I can't comment about bulky since I started carrying a Glock 21SF. It took a while to get comfortable with the grip and I hear the old 21s were even a bigger grip. Ruger has the reputation of having the toughest revolvers, I guess that goes with their auto's too.

[TGO David]

I had a Ruger P89 once. In fact, it was the first handgun that I ever bought for myself. A big, clunky, butt-ugly 9mm. I sold it within a month.

[K191145]

I had a Ruger P89 once. In fact, it was the first handgun that I ever bought for myself. A big, clunky, butt-ugly 9mm. I sold it within a month.

There is no excuse these days for a 9mm to be bulky or clunky.

[TGO David]

There is no excuse these days for a 9mm to be bulky or clunky.

You are very right. But this was... 1994 I think and while I was a serious gun nerd, I hadn't been spending my own money on them for very long. My next gun was a Smith & Wesson 3913. I miss that one.

[K191145]

You are very right. But this was... 1994 I think and while I was a serious gun nerd, I hadn't been spending my own money on them for very long. My next gun was a Smith & Wesson 3913. I miss that one.

I haven't had too many decent guns, I was always impatient and never saved enough for one until I bought my Kimber which was only $600 back in 97. The Smiths and Rugers seemed more popular back then. The only gun I sold that I could really kick myself for was a stainless Colt Python and I got that for a steal, $450. The autos I have owned were unimpressive.

[Guest Fred LE FI]

Any firearm can have a kB! Hey Mike the venerable 1911 also does not have a fully supported chamber. We have had this argument hundreds(thousands?) of times. My point is that any gun can have a kB! The Glock is not perfect by any means but many people go overboard as to it's faults. If you like them(like me) great. If not, that is great also. I hardly think you are saving your fellow man by spreading what is ultimately your own personal bias towards them. But what the heck, I am smart enough to form my own opinion so "carry" on(pun intended).

Careful, Urse. MarsWolf may use his Moderator Powers to delete your posts when you disagree with him. It's astonishing to me that this can happen on a gun-related forum used and (presumably) moderated by a freedon loving group. It's now been done to me once in a discussion thread and once in the For Sale forum. I came nowhere near violating any policy. This stinks, and may be partially to blame for the low level of use this Site gets.

I thought I had found a gem here, but now I hardly ever bother to drop in.

Fred

[Marswolf]

Hey Fred. I've never deleted anyone's posts here. You need to get your head out of your ass.

[Urse]

Actually Fred I have to concur with Mars(oddly enough) although he enjoys poking Glock owners I am not aware of any abuses of his Moderator privileges. We definately disagree about the value of the Glock but all of his arguments are logical. I have also spent less time here lately but all in all I do not feel TGO is all that much worse than any other gun forum. I have made the mistake of taking comments on this board personally and have come to the conclusion that it is a waste of time to take anything on the internet seriously. Go try and disagree with "someone" at warriortalk or getoffthex if you want to see an example of who's d... is bigger syndrome.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Careful, Urse. MarsWolf may use his Moderator Powers to delete your posts when you disagree with him. It's astonishing to me that this can happen on a gun-related forum used and (presumably) moderated by a freedon loving group. It's now been done to me once in a discussion thread and once in the For Sale forum. I came nowhere near violating any policy. This stinks, and may be partially to blame for the low level of use this Site gets.

I thought I had found a gem here, but now I hardly ever bother to drop in.

Fred

Hey I disagree with Mars, but have never had anything deleted. Maybe it wasn't the act of disagreement, maybe it was content... if anything was deleted at all.

Either way, how about taking it up in PMs before showing your hind end in the public forums?

There are some really fine and knowledgable folks on here, but hey, the internet is a free place, so hopefully you can find happiness somewhere. It never hurts having another knowledgable person post, so why don't you stick around instead of taking your toys and going home?

[Guest Hyaloid]

... This stinks, and may be partially to blame for the low level of use this Site gets.

I thought I had found a gem here, but now I hardly ever bother to drop in.

Fred

Low level of use? Have you seen the TFA forums? We have a pretty specific and limited target audience, I'd say this forum is pretty damned active.